Saying racism is over is the new saying you have 'a black friend'

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

I guess it depends on where you live. 100k is still pretty decent in Texas. Probably not in NY or California.

Correct. If being slightly south to somewhat north of the median income in your area doesn't count you in the middle class anymore then we do not have a middle class. After all, the median income is the income point where half the population is below it and half is above it. It's the dead center of the income scale. The very middle. Isn't that the range where one would expect the "middle class" to be?

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Stagnant wages coupled with a smaller employment base is what kills demand. If wages had simply kept up with productivity gains over the last 30+ years,

What productivity? Most of the job gains are in the service industries and retail. Productivity had gone to places like China.

[GandD 5,966]

The whole thing is pretty amazing. You have these CEOs getting obscenely rich, at the same time you have record numbers of people on govt. assistance (food stamps, welfare etc.) Guess who pays for it all? The middle class. This country is starting to turn into some kind of banana republic.

People living in rural areas or small towns just don't know what wealth is. They think they're on the same side as the real wealth trying to keep the country from being taken over by the "bums" That's what you hear middle class people talk about, the bums. They think the poor and destitute are sucking away the life from this country. No sir, you gotta look at the other end of the spectrum to see who's really stealing from the middle class. But I don't think I'd use the word "stealing" at this point. I think its gone a bit farther than that.

[decocker 7,198]

BTW, what do you consider the middle class? If your household income isn't above $100,000 a year, you are not even close to being middle class.

and i thought i was finally movin on up

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

It's funny. I get all these emails for jobs that are contract to perm, which really means they're contract and there is no perm. I finally responded tonight, that I'm not interested in any contract to perm positions. If they don't have a regular job for me, don't bother contacting me.

Generally speaking you're probably correct on there not being a perm on the "contract to perm" jobs. But there are exceptions. We have been doing a lot of our hiring that way. Just on the entry level, though. We also have what I would call "permanent contractors" - they're contractors but they're around for years with no end in sight.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Correct. If being slightly south to somewhat north of the median income in your area doesn't count you in the middle class anymore then we do not have a middle class. After all, the median income is the income point where half the population is below it and half is above it. It's the dead center of the income scale. The very middle. Isn't that the range where one would expect the "middle class" to be?

It's a pyramid. Most of the population is not in the middle class, nor should they be.

ETA: Bell curve is the wrong image.

Edited July 26, 2013 by The Patriot

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

What productivity? Most of the job gains are in the service industries and retail. Productivity had gone to places like China.

So there's no productivity in the retail and service industry? Doesn't matter if 2 or 10 people get a certain job done in a given amount of time? Interesting.

[Karee 4,190]

Generally speaking you're probably correct on there not being a perm on the "contract to perm" jobs. But there are exceptions. We have been doing a lot of our hiring that way. Just on the entry level, though. We also have what I would call "permanent contractors" - they're contractors but they're around for years with no end in sight.

I'm on my second contract with a large telecom company. On paper I work for a staffing agency. They pay me an hourly rate with W-2 which means I don't have to deal with withholding my own taxes. I get no paid holidays, no health insurance, no vacation. Basically nothing but an hourly wage. The telecom company has a rule that you can only be a contractor for 30 months. Then you have to leave for at least 6 months before you can come back for another 30 months. You basically walk in the door with a pink slip that is post-dated for 30 months. I'm not really complaining since I agreed to it, it just seems a sad state of affairs.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

It's a bell curve. Most of the population is not in the middle class, nor should they be.

Then it's not the middle class. Call it what you want - the 4th quintile or whatever - but it's not the middle class simply because it is not in the middle.

[GandD 5,966]

I was looking at manufacturing data and I thought this was kinda funny. Washington Post is all over the place.

In March

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/03/25/goldman-sachs-sorry-u-s-manufacturing-isnt-coming-back/

In May

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/05/01/is-u-s-manufacturing-set-for-a-comeback-or-is-it-all-hype/

I'm looking for a July article titled "US Manufacturing Back!"

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

So there's no productivity in the retail and service industry? Doesn't matter if 2 or 10 people get a certain job done in a given amount of time? Interesting.

What? It's self-service now. That is why there are less jobs, not more efficient workers. Try and get a live operator anymore! You have been replaced by an automated script.

Then it's not the middle class. Call it what you want - the 4th quintile or whatever - but it's not the middle class simply because it is not in the middle.

I thought about it, and the bell curve is not the correct image. A pyramid, or even the Eiffel Tower would be better.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

I'm on my second contract with a large telecom company. On paper I work for a staffing agency. They pay me an hourly rate with W-2 which means I don't have to deal with withholding my own taxes. I get no paid holidays, no health insurance, no vacation. Basically nothing but an hourly wage. The telecom company has a rule that you can only be a contractor for 30 months. Then you have to leave for at least 6 months before you can come back for another 30 months. You basically walk in the door with a pink slip that is post-dated for 30 months. I'm not really complaining since I agreed to it, it just seems a sad state of affairs.

It is a sad state of affairs. I see it every day. In essence, someone is getting paid so you don't get any benefits. Makes absolutely no sense.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

On a political note, if you were a Democrat, you would want less people to identify with the middle class, to convince them they are being taken advantage of by the top whatever percent. On the other hand, Republicans want more people to identify with the middle class, to suggest they shouldn't have to pay taxes to support all those deadbeat poor people. The American middle class is a canard created to get more Republican votes.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

I thought about it, and the bell curve is not the correct image. A pyramid, or even the Eiffel Tower would be better.

I see. So you're saying somewhere half way up that pyramid (that middle) is where your middle class is and there would, of course, be a much larger mass below than there would be above.

Alright, I can see how one might want to look at it that way.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

I see. So you're saying somewhere half way up that pyramid (that middle) is where your middle class is and there would, of course, be a much larger mass below than there would be above.

Alright, I can see how one might want to look at it that way.

When the median household income is around $35,000 a year, I am stating reality, if we agree the middle class begins somewhere in the six figures.