Does Stand Your Ground Apply

[Teddy B 17,252]

and when they find out we all don't eat fried chicken and watermelon

Wait, what? Since when?

[Karee 4,190]

While there are things I'm sure I don't see or pick up on because I am not black and haven't lived your life, it's very evident from your posts, that you have a tendency to see or pick up on things that just aren't there. Since the beginning of this whole GZ/TM case, you have been making posts that have your opinions and your feelings of how the events took place written as fact, you have used these opinions and feelings as the basis of your arguments without seeing how they have distorted your views of the actual events as stated in the trial by the witnesses. You have continuously posted your opinions of how GZ or TM were thinking that night as fact, sorry but you don't know that and you can't do that and continue to be objective. I get that you have skin in this game (pardon the pun), and I really don't, but that also gives me the opportunity to look at this a bit more objectively, imo.

I have looked at this case from every angle I possibly could, both TM's and GZ's. I have never viewed TM as a criminal, nor have I considered his past in my thinking, and I have done the same for GZ. I have done my best to see where you're coming from and to see if I was missing something, but no matter how many times I run this incident through my head, I cannot come out thinking race has played a factor. I had nothing to gain or lose no matter what the outcome of this case was, the same cannot be said for the race baiters and the people that want to follow that line of thinking. When a person is conditioned to think a certain way for their entire lives, it is very possible for them to see things that don't really exist. That is what I see happening with you and the other folks that are saying race is the driving factor in this case. It started with GZ being racist, then it was the Sanford police chief, now it's the jury. Sorry, but it's just not there this time.

Well said.

[decocker 7,198]

Plus, half the whote folks in America dont cycle in and out of jail having illegitimate children along the way.

Yes, its getting worse with every generation but its not at epidemic levels like it is amongst black folks.

and you blame rappers? not the PIC? not the bs "war on drugs"? ppffft.

either you believe there is a biological reason black people can't help but have illegitimate children and stay in jail/trouble or you accept that the game is rigged.

[Karee 4,190]

Hey. As a certain tv commentator said, Obama needs to black up . He needs a shark in his pool.

I thought black people didn't swim. Why would he have a pool?

and you blame rappers? not the PIC? not the bs "war on drugs"? ppffft.

either you believe there is a biological reason black people can't help but have illegitimate children and stay in jail/trouble or you accept that the game is rigged.

I can't speak for Slim, but all this has zero to do with biology or genetics. Could it possibly be the culture and how black children are raised? You know, single parents etc?

Edited July 26, 2013 by Karee

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

While there are things I'm sure I don't see or pick up on because I am not black and haven't lived your life, it's very evident from your posts, that you have a tendency to see or pick up on things that just aren't there. Since the beginning of this whole GZ/TM case, you have been making posts that have your opinions and your feelings of how the events took place written as fact, you have used these opinions and feelings as the basis of your arguments without seeing how they have distorted your views of the actual events as stated in the trial by the witnesses. You have continuously posted your opinions of how GZ or TM were thinking that night as fact, sorry but you don't know that and you can't do that and continue to be objective. I get that you have skin in this game (pardon the pun), and I really don't, but that also gives me the opportunity to look at this a bit more objectively, imo.

I have looked at this case from every angle I possibly could, both TM's and GZ's. I have never viewed TM as a criminal, nor have I considered his past in my thinking, and I have done the same for GZ. I have done my best to see where you're coming from and to see if I was missing something, but no matter how many times I run this incident through my head, I cannot come out thinking race has played a factor. I had nothing to gain or lose no matter what the outcome of this case was, the same cannot be said for the race baiters and the people that want to follow that line of thinking. When a person is conditioned to think a certain way for their entire lives, it is very possible for them to see things that don't really exist. That is what I see happening with you and the other folks that are saying race is the driving factor in this case. It started with GZ being racist, then it was the Sanford police chief, now it's the jury. Sorry, but it's just not there this time.

Put yourself in GZ's shoes for a second. Would you do the same things he did?

You're right, we are conditioned to think a certain way, but so are the rest of Americans when it comes to black men in general. That's not me seeing the boogie man, that's a fact: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_brute

Even in modern times, the press and mass media have yet to disagree or discount the racial prejudices of the past, portraying black men as sexual and degenerate. Even today, black people are regarded as potentially dangerous, and the media of today tries to contain black people into categories in their existing value systems, by reviewing the racial past, or by normalizing black people only as spectacles or in the case of exceptional athletes^.

In fact, these brutish and violent portrayals of blacks are encouraged both by black entertainers who get money from their portrayals as well as the media. Young black men are buying into the idea that real blacks are thugs and gangsters, and studious blacks aren’t true African-Americans.

You know how I know this is true? I've gone through it. Not 20 years ago, not 15 years ago, this is an every day thing for me and my wife. I don't own any timberland boots any more, all my jeans are fitted and are worn with semi dress shoes instead of Air Force Ones, I have 2 hoodies, one from the Navy, one from my Polar Plunge jump last year. It's ingrained in our society that black men are one step removed from being animals.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/06/justice/texas-judge-racial-allegations

Think about it, if this is coming from a judge, how do you think regular folks see us? When you see movies about prison, who's the scariest person in there? The big black guy.

I don't think you would have done what GZ did in that case. You would have kept moving, or if it was something suspicious, you'd call the police, let them know the deal and let them handle it. Which is what should have happened.

[decocker 7,198]

I can't speak for Slim, but all this has zero to do with biology or genetics.

karee, i don't believe that you think this has to do with biology or genetics. but i don't understand why you don't see the insanity of the boot strap theory. incarceration has many many long term negative effects on the family. you know that. so how do you propose black people fight back against the system? protesting jay-z? boycotting lil wayne?

one in 28 children have a parent behind bars. no race mentioned. one in 28. are people just more evil nowadays? or is the system rigged? black people get the short end of the stick, because they're the poorest thereby making them the easiest to incarcerate and keep in the system long after they've been released.

This means more than one in 100 Americans is in prison, and the cost of prisons to states now exceeds $50 billion per year, or one in every 15 state dollars spent — a figure the study describes as “staggering.”

According to the authors, one in every 28 children in the US has a parent behind bars — up from one in 125 just 25 years ago. This is significant, the study argues, because children of incarcerated parents are much likelier to struggle in life.

A family with an incarcerated parent on average earns 22 percent less the year after the incarceration than it did the year before, the study finds. And children with parents in prison are significantly likelier to be expelled from school than others; 23 percent of students with jailed parents are expelled, compared to 4 percent for the general population.

“Both education and parental income are strong indicators of children’s future economic mobility,” the survey notes. “With millions of prison and jail inmates a year returning to their communities, it is important to identify policies that address the impact of incarceration on the economic mobility of former inmates and their children.”

In all, 2.7 million US children have parents behind bars, and “two-thirds of these children’s parents were incarcerated for non-violent offenses,” the study notes.

Not surprisingly, the statistics show large disparities when broken down by race. Among black children, fully one in nine, or 11.4 percent, have a parent in jail. For Hispanics, the number is one in 28, and for white children it’s one in 57.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/09/29/one-28-kids-parent-jail-study/

[decocker 7,198]

Could it possibly be the culture and how black children are raised? You know, single parents etc?

i'm a single parent. even when i was married to the father of my son i was a single parent. single parents can raise sound, productive, secure children. it isn't about the parent who is present, it's about the parent who is missing.

[Karee 4,190]

karee, i don't believe that you think this has to do with biology or genetics. but i don't understand why you don't see the insanity of the boot strap theory. incarceration has many many long term negative effects on the family. you know that. so how do you propose black people fight back against the system? protesting jay-z? boycotting lil wayne?

one in 28 children have a parent behind bars. no race mentioned. one in 28. are people just more evil nowadays? or is the system rigged? black people get the short end of the stick, because they're the poorest thereby making them the easiest to incarcerate and keep in the system long after they've been released.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/09/29/one-28-kids-parent-jail-study/

Because the "bootstrap" theory is what gets people out of poverty. Govt. assistance has the opposite effect. Govt. assistance breeds crime, laziness, unemployment, alcohol and drug abuse. etc. You want an example of govt. assistance in action, look at the native American community in this country. That's what govt. assistance gets you. I sure hope the black community isn't looking at them as an example of how govt. helps out the less fortunate.

[Karee 4,190]

i'm a single parent. even when i was married to the father of my son i was a single parent. single parents can raise sound, productive, secure children. it isn't about the parent who is present, it's about the parent who is missing.

I was raised by a single parent as well. I'd agree with you 100% that it is the missing parent that is the problem, hence the term single parent. It's been shown over and over that children that are raised by both parents statistically do better in life. That doesn't mean children raised by single parents are doomed to fail.

[decocker 7,198]

Because the "bootstrap" theory is what gets people out of poverty. Govt. assistance has the opposite effect. Govt. assistance breeds crime, laziness, unemployment, alcohol and drug abuse. etc. You want an example of govt. assistance in action, look at the native American community in this country. That's what govt. assistance gets you. I sure hope the black community isn't looking at them as an example of how govt. helps out the less fortunate.

the PIC is guaranteed govt assistance. it's a cycle that locks entire families in for life. but let's protest the entertainment industry..let's focus on fashion choices..

[Karee 4,190]

the PIC is guaranteed govt assistance. it's a cycle that locks entire families in for life. but let's protest the entertainment industry..let's focus on fashion choices..

I personally don't focus on that too much. I do find it odd that people whine about racism and terms that are offensive and then turn around and use those terms, and do everything they can to fit the racial stereotype on purpose. It's kind of passive aggressive if you ask me.

[Teddy B 17,252]

Put yourself in GZ's shoes for a second. Would you do the same things he did?

I don't think you would have done what GZ did in that case. You would have kept moving, or if it was something suspicious, you'd call the police, let them know the deal and let them handle it. Which is what should have happened.

You have answered the question for me. I would not have done what GZ did, I believe GZ was in the wrong in the way he handled the situation. I originally thought GZ was guilty of manslaughter, but based on the lack of evidence and the weak case presented at the trial, I have backed off my original prognosis. I do still believe that GZ was an overzealous idiot that night and is guilty of criminal negligence for the way he handled the situation. I do not believe that race has played a role in it however.

[Karee 4,190]

I do not believe that race has played a role in it however.

If not, then what would we talk about?

[decocker 7,198]

I do find it odd that people whine about racism and terms that are offensive and then turn around and use those terms, and do everything they can to fit the racial stereotype on purpose. It's kind of passive aggressive if you ask me.

why do you think that children/teens copy popular culture to fit into a racial stereotype on purpose? when i was a kid the adults around me loved watching redskins play football, listening to the beatles, watching reruns of alfred hitcock. i never decided i was going to fit that mold. it was what i was exposed to, it was what i knew..so it was what i did.

[Jacque67 7,328]

Put yourself in GZ's shoes for a second. Would you do the same things he did?

You're right, we are conditioned to think a certain way, but so are the rest of Americans when it comes to black men in general. That's not me seeing the boogie man, that's a fact: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_brute

Even in modern times, the press and mass media have yet to disagree or discount the racial prejudices of the past, portraying black men as sexual and degenerate. Even today, black people are regarded as potentially dangerous, and the media of today tries to contain black people into categories in their existing value systems, by reviewing the racial past, or by normalizing black people only as spectacles or in the case of exceptional athletes^.

In fact, these brutish and violent portrayals of blacks are encouraged both by black entertainers who get money from their portrayals as well as the media. Young black men are buying into the idea that real blacks are thugs and gangsters, and studious blacks arent true African-Americans.

You know how I know this is true? I've gone through it. Not 20 years ago, not 15 years ago, this is an every day thing for me and my wife. I don't own any timberland boots any more, all my jeans are fitted and are worn with semi dress shoes instead of Air Force Ones, I have 2 hoodies, one from the Navy, one from my Polar Plunge jump last year. It's ingrained in our society that black men are one step removed from being animals.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/06/justice/texas-judge-racial-allegations

Think about it, if this is coming from a judge, how do you think regular folks see us? When you see movies about prison, who's the scariest person in there? The big black guy.

I don't think you would have done what GZ did in that case. You would have kept moving, or if it was something suspicious, you'd call the police, let them know the deal and let them handle it. Which is what should have happened.

Actually, in Hollywood films the bad guy is usually English ( think Die hard etc)