Does Stand Your Ground Apply

[Karee 4,190]

But here is the double standard:

You and slim have no problem with us being profiled, because according to you we commit more crime so we warrant more "attention" than white people. So, isn't that special treatment? Isn't that what you want to get rid of?

So, it's completely ok to profile blacks, because we commit more crime, even though whites commit crimes as well? It's ok to ask us if we have a criminal record, and no one else, to ask for our FB passwords, because our privacy doesn't matter, to ask if we're gang members, even if we have no tattoos, no criminal record, not a whiff of danger, but of course this is ok because those other blacks do it, I must be a gang member.

But, you want to get rid of AA or anything that gives us "special consideration". So is it cool to treat us differently as long as we don't benefit from it, yet if it helps us there's a problem.

I never said it was ok to profile anyone. I merely stated that blacks by percentage of population commit more crimes than whites. That's just a fact. This whole conversation makes me think, why would I ever hire someone that is black? If I gave a promotion to a white guy that was more qualified, would the black person assume I was racist? If I didn't say hi to them when passing in the office, would that be racist? If I had to terminate them for poor performance, would they haul my a$$ into court for racial discrimination? I never considered such things until I started having these debates with you here on VJ. I honestly hope that most black people don't assume that everytime a white person doesn't let them cut in front of them in traffic, or hold the door for them, or whatever think it's a racial thing. This "everyone is out to get me because of my race" thing is tiring. This whole trial in Florida has really opened my eyes to alot of things, and they aint good.

While googling to find this Facebook password thing you are talking about, I ran across all kinds of Facebook groups for blacks only. What if I started a whites only Facebook group? I'd be called a racist of the worst kind.

As far as the FB password thing, all I could find was the link below where they asked for EVERYONE's Facebook password. All races.

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/facebook-passwords-employers-schools-demand-access-facebook-senators/story?id=16005565

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

I never said it was ok to profile anyone. I merely stated that blacks by percentage of population commit more crimes than whites. That's just a fact. This whole conversation makes me think, why would I ever hire someone that is black? If I gave a promotion to a white guy that was more qualified, would the black person assume I was racist? If I didn't say hi to them when passing in the office, would that be racist? If I had to terminate them for poor performance, would they haul my a$$ into court for racial discrimination? I never considered such things until I started having these debates with you here on VJ. I honestly hope that most black people don't assume that everytime a white person doesn't let them cut in front of them in traffic, or hold the door for them, or whatever think it's a racial thing. This "everyone is out to get me because of my race" thing is tiring. This whole trial in Florida has really opened my eyes to alot of things, and they aint good.

While googling to find this Facebook password thing you are talking about, I ran across all kinds of Facebook groups for blacks only. What if I started a whites only Facebook group? I'd be called a racist of the worst kind.

As far as the FB password thing, all I could find was the link below where they asked for EVERYONE's Facebook password. All races.

http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/facebook-passwords-employers-schools-demand-access-facebook-senators/story?id=16005565

No because we can tell the difference, the problem is most white folks can't. If a person out performs me, you won't hear me bitching.

It's the things I post, school, prison, jobs where the disparities are so obvious you know it's a problem. I work about a bunch of white folks. I don't even think racism comes into play when I deal with anyone unless it's something problematic. It's something you don't recognize because you aren't privy to it everyday.

http://newsone.com/1945265/employers-facebook-passwords/

Same article, different slant.

[slim 1,530]

married to a Malaysian ex-runway model.

Better be careful, Gary is going to start a picture battle.

But here is the double standard:

You and slim have no problem with us being profiled,

Please post where I've indicated I have no problem with profiling.

You just don't get it, there is no such thing as a regular old dude when you are black.

Not yet. But if you keep up the good work, there just might be.

What I mean by black folks being responsible for the change themselves is things like Viacom owning BET. Why are black people not out in the streets protesting the fact that there is a BET? Why is it acceptable? Why can an association for the advancement of "colored" people still be something acceptable to modern people? Why are black folks still letting racist organizations push a racist agenda?

When I see black people protesting Jay-Z's lyrics the way I saw them calling for justice for Trayvon, then I'll know they're ready to be seen as equal. Until then, they're telling all of us they don't want to be seen that way. They still want to be special. "It's okay for us to use these words and glorify this lifestyle but not y'all."

You don't like a certain word being used? Nor do I. But I can't even talk about it because I'm not in the club and when I broach the subject, I'm a racist. Sorry my man, but the heavy lifting is squarely on your shoulders. I know you didn't ask for it, but until folks start letting me be part of the conversation, there's not a whole lot I can do. I will continue to try, but being honest and white at the same time is instantly dismissed as racism.

This "everyone is out to get me because of my race" thing is tiring.

That's exactly what it is.

America can't even have the conversation because of the automatic exclusion of certain parties based on their skin color alone. Hmm. Excluding parties because of nothing more than the color of their skin? That's racist!

[jkelly07 120]

val erie.you doubt the suv story. where have you been it was all over the news. the accident happen on Seminole county interstate 4 the suv lost control flipping on it's side and sliding into the median George Zimmerman and others stoped to get the people out of the suv occupants mark and dana gerstle www.cnn-- abc news-- msnbc.

[Teddy B 17,252]

Marvin, do you think I am racist, or that I am incapable of viewing this case without looking at the color of the participants?

Nope, I don't think Karee is either. What I think is that there are things that both of you can't see because it's not part of your world. And how could it be? I don't have to read GZ's mind to know he wouldn't treat a white child that way. Look at his actions, from the beginning, TM was a criminal. Folks talk about his record, like it's a blueprint for a criminal mastermind. But GZ's assaults and domestic violence? No big deal. Even when the cops asked him why didn't he just tell TM who he was to try to defuse the situation, GZ was completely baffled by this revalation. By his own admission TM was doing something wrong so why would he identify himself to a criminal? All of his actions were wrong, from a common sense standpoint, and a neighborhood watch standpoint. Go back through this thread, when folks say they would do the same thing, and I ask, would you follow them for 4 minutes, would you get out of the car, would you not identify yourself, they just skip over this and keep posting. His actions led to the confrontation, had he just asked him BEFORE he called the cops, BEFORE he started following him, BEFORE he got out of the car and chased him, I'll say that TM might have given him attitude and kept it moving, or he might have just said I'm going to my dad's girl's house.

While there are things I'm sure I don't see or pick up on because I am not black and haven't lived your life, it's very evident from your posts, that you have a tendency to see or pick up on things that just aren't there. Since the beginning of this whole GZ/TM case, you have been making posts that have your opinions and your feelings of how the events took place written as fact, you have used these opinions and feelings as the basis of your arguments without seeing how they have distorted your views of the actual events as stated in the trial by the witnesses. You have continuously posted your opinions of how GZ or TM were thinking that night as fact, sorry but you don't know that and you can't do that and continue to be objective. I get that you have skin in this game (pardon the pun), and I really don't, but that also gives me the opportunity to look at this a bit more objectively, imo.

I have looked at this case from every angle I possibly could, both TM's and GZ's. I have never viewed TM as a criminal, nor have I considered his past in my thinking, and I have done the same for GZ. I have done my best to see where you're coming from and to see if I was missing something, but no matter how many times I run this incident through my head, I cannot come out thinking race has played a factor. I had nothing to gain or lose no matter what the outcome of this case was, the same cannot be said for the race baiters and the people that want to follow that line of thinking. When a person is conditioned to think a certain way for their entire lives, it is very possible for them to see things that don't really exist. That is what I see happening with you and the other folks that are saying race is the driving factor in this case. It started with GZ being racist, then it was the Sanford police chief, now it's the jury. Sorry, but it's just not there this time.

[decocker 7,198]

val erie.you doubt the suv story. where have you been it was all over the news. the accident happen on Seminole county interstate 4 the suv lost control flipping on it's side and sliding into the median George Zimmerman and others stoped to get the people out of the suv occupants mark and dana gerstle www.cnn-- abc news-- msnbc.

it isn't a matter of where i've been, it's a matter of where i get my "news". i don't have tv/cable.

george zimmerman was passing by and stopped to help? or george zimmerman has a scanner and is an opportunist?

[decocker 7,198]

When I see black people protesting Jay-Z's lyrics the way I saw them calling for justice for Trayvon, then I'll know they're ready to be seen as equal. Until then, they're telling all of us they don't want to be seen that way. They still want to be special. "It's okay for us to use these words and glorify this lifestyle but not y'all."

then you'll know they're ready? well slim, that's mighty nice of ya.

jay-z is a pop star. pop. the culture is mainstream. it is not in any way specific or representative of 'them'.

[Teddy B 17,252]

it isn't a matter of where i've been, it's a matter of where i get my "news". i don't have tv/cable.

george zimmerman was passing by and stopped to help? or george zimmerman has a scanner and is an opportunist?

Or you could be in denial that GZ is really a superhero.

[decocker 7,198]

Or you could be in denial that GZ is really a superhero.

maybe, but i prefer to remain in the dark. too coincidental. when i read 'george zimmerman came out of hiding to help..blah blah blah'

nope.

[slim 1,530]

then you'll know they're ready? well slim, that's mighty nice of ya.

jay-z is a pop star. pop. the culture is mainstream. it is not in any way specific or representative of 'them'.

Exactly whey they should protest. Behavior these rappers display should be condemned. Instead, our own president hangs out with them.

Sorry folks, if youre not going to take yourselves seriously, nobody else is either.

[Penny Lane 8,159]

Should behavior that white celebrities display be condemned by the "white community" as well? For fear of not being taken seriously if they don't?

[decocker 7,198]

Exactly whey they should protest. Behavior these rappers display should be condemned. Instead, our own president hangs out with them.

Sorry folks, if youre not going to take yourselves seriously, nobody else is either.

why should black people protest your personal association? rappers are not representatives of the black race. rappers are representative of a portion of american culture that is supported by american citizens (and all over the world).

i'm not saying there's nothing wrong with the culture, there most certainly is. but what's wrong with the culture isn't exclusive to black people - therefore the solution does not lie with them alone.

and people should be allowed to listen to whatever music they want, tipper.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

Better be careful, Gary is going to start a picture battle.

Please post where I've indicated I have no problem with profiling.

Not yet. But if you keep up the good work, there just might be.

What I mean by black folks being responsible for the change themselves is things like Viacom owning BET. Why are black people not out in the streets protesting the fact that there is a BET? Why is it acceptable? Why can an association for the advancement of "colored" people still be something acceptable to modern people? Why are black folks still letting racist organizations push a racist agenda?

When I see black people protesting Jay-Z's lyrics the way I saw them calling for justice for Trayvon, then I'll know they're ready to be seen as equal. Until then, they're telling all of us they don't want to be seen that way. They still want to be special. "It's okay for us to use these words and glorify this lifestyle but not y'all."

You don't like a certain word being used? Nor do I. But I can't even talk about it because I'm not in the club and when I broach the subject, I'm a racist. Sorry my man, but the heavy lifting is squarely on your shoulders. I know you didn't ask for it, but until folks start letting me be part of the conversation, there's not a whole lot I can do. I will continue to try, but being honest and white at the same time is instantly dismissed as racism.

That's exactly what it is.

America can't even have the conversation because of the automatic exclusion of certain parties based on their skin color alone. Hmm. Excluding parties because of nothing more than the color of their skin? That's racist!

If Gary wants to compare wives, he can go and photoshop some pictures, I've made that mistake once.

If you're not cool with special programs like AA or hate crimes, you shouldn't be cool with profiling.

Also, why should I have to change who I am to get you to see beyond the color of my skin? I am as American as any white person. This nation was built on the sweat of our ancestors, we have a right to be here just like any of you.

Why would we protest something that helped put black musicians on the map? You make it seem like we wanted BET in the first place. News flash for you, MTV REFUSED to play black musicians. Michael Jackson, you know the greatest artist of all time, his agent had threatened to sue them before they even considered playing Billie Jean on their network. It was the first black video aired back then. It's funny how you want to disable anything that helps with advancement for minoritites, but you tend to leave out that before then, we weren't accepted or wanted into those places. And any black organization you can name with the exception of the black caucus, not only has white pepole in it or even has helped white people, asians, and every other race, they are run by white people. Give me one majority white organization that has black members or even ran by one and then we can talk. Yet people want to put the NAACP and the KKK in the same sentence. Absurd. Folks say name me a white person who got a grant from the NAACP or UNCF, I say show me a white person who applied. Then they have nothing to say.

Why should we protest Jay-z when Emimen is one of the best selling rapper of all times with his lyrics of killing and dismembering folks, while doing drugs? Oh, that's right, because when he says it, it's just music, but when we say it, it's a lifestyle. Double standard. I've already voiced my opinion of this type of music, but here's the kicker. Black are only 30% of the population, it's not just us making them rich, it's you as well. If it didn't sell so well it wouldn't thrive.

You can have a conversation about race, we are having it now. But remember, there is a difference between being honest and being a douche about it. If you want to have a debate about the N-word, I'm all for it. Just know that you can't blame me for some folks that want to say it. I don't speak for them, just like you don't speak for the KKK. You also have to have an open mind about it, because too many times folks want to have this conversation to futher push their negative stereotypes of black people, and when they find out we all don't eat fried chicken and watermelon, we listen to country, rock and roll, even classical, we dress like we care about our appearances, we speak proper english, it's too much and then comes the name calling, or worse, they say, oh you not like the rest of them. Like we are all ignorant. If I have to carry the burden of all my ignorant brothers and sisters, you should carry it for all the ignorant folks you have in your camp.

[Jacque67 7,328]

Exactly whey they should protest. Behavior these rappers display should be condemned. Instead, our own president hangs out with them.

Sorry folks, if youre not going to take yourselves seriously, nobody else is either.

Hey. As a certain tv commentator said, Obama needs to black up . He needs a shark in his pool.

[slim 1,530]

Should behavior that white celebrities display be condemned by the "white community" as well? For fear of not being taken seriously if they don't?

Which behavior are you talking about that leads to epidemic levels of failure and dependence on government programs? I realize there are more white people on welfare but the percentage is significantly lower. Plus, half the whote folks in America dont cycle in and out of jail having illegitimate children along the way.

Yes, its getting worse with every generation but its not at epidemic levels like it is amongst black folks.