Does Stand Your Ground Apply

[Karee 4,190]

Facts are a funny thing:

See when white people say, it's the black folks fault they can't get anywhere, I start thinking. I look at how black children in school are treated like criminals when they make mistakes, whereas white children are treated like children. http://www.policymic.com/articles/39381/kiera-wilmot-how-her-arrest-and-expulsion-exposes-america-s-racial-discipline-gap The only reason this straight A student isn't in jail right now is because they raised enough stink about it to cause the school board to dismiss the charges. She was about to be arrested and charged as an adult for something so minor it's laughable. Black children are 3 and 1/2 likely to be expelled for the same thing that white kids do. And this is in school, let's not go there with the prison system, how blacks are 6 times more likely to be sentenced with longer jail terms than their white counterparts. So when someone says, it's equal footing footing for all of us, it's not true. Not by a long shot.

But on the flip side, when we point this out, then we are the victims that want a handout and government help, even though AA, hate crimes, and any other program designed to "help" us wasn't implemented by us. It's a way of saying we can't do it on our own. That's why I said get rid of AA but make hiring based on merit. The problem with that is, you can be on the top of your game, and if you are black, you still might not get hired. Blacks with no record and a stellar record are still being left out for white folks who are less qualifed and have a criminal record.http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2009/11/14/race-criminal-background-and-employment/ What was surprising was that race actually turned out to be more significant than a criminal background. Notice that employers were more likely to call Whites with a criminal record (17% were offered an interview) than Blacks without a criminal record (14%). And while having a criminal background hurt all applicants’ chances of getting an interview, African Americans with a non-violent offense faced particularly dismal employment prospects. Think about that, even when we don't make mistakes, our skin color is a major factor. Just like this case, we all know if the color was reversed, GZ would be in jail right now.

We are treated differently, it doesn't matter who you are. 10 years ago the prospect of being a black president didn't even exist in our minds. We would crack jokes about it, because we knew it would never happen. Now that it's become a reality, the Supreme Court has made changes in 9 of the states south to the civil rights voters act. I wonder why. It's an insult when folks say all black folks have to do is hard work and they can make it when the game is rigged for us to lose. It's a catch 22, if you make it, it's everyone else who sucks, if you don't, you suck.

Like I've said before, If GZ was black, he probably had a better chance of being convicted. Now that doesn't mean I think GZ was guilty, it means I think he was innocent, but there's a higher probably that that he would have been unfairly convicted if he was black. Being black carries a stigma that blacks commit more crimes than whites. It's actually not really a stigma, it's a statistical fact. Our justice system should not convict people based on stigmas and statistics or whatever. Unfortunately that is the case sometimes, and it's wrong. Having said that, blacks do commit crimes at a much higher rate compared to whites. You can cherry pick rape and mass murders and say "See whites do bad things as well" I get it.

Now, I get your point that racism still exists out there. I know that it does. What's the best way go about fixing it? That I don't know, but I think I know how NOT to try and fix it. This trial is a perfect example of how NOT to fix it. I can't speak for every white person out there, but I found myself wondering if I had a kid that was in the same situation as TM, what would happen? Would the president speak about it? Would there be rallies? Would there be 24 hour wall to wall news coverage? Of course not. There has not been one SINGLE piece of evidence that GZ killing TM had anything to do with his race. None. Zero. Zilch. Yet now this case has become the case study of what's wrong with race relations in this country. Why? I'm not seeing it. There's no evidence that GZ did anything but defend himself. Now Marvin you can sit there all day dreaming up these "what if this, what if that" scenarios, but it doesn't change the evidence that TM jumped on the guy and start beating him and GZ killed him for it. I personally think it would go along way for folks like Al and Jesse to say" look, the guy was defending himself and race didn't play a part in this" I know that the sun will rise in the west before that ever happens, and therein lies the problem.

In my mind this case has had the opposite effect of bringing people together because there was no racial component to this case other than GZ happened to be white and TM happened to be black. So it's a bunch of outrage over racism that doesn't exist in this case. There's alot of dead black people that are dead due to racism. TM isn't one of them.

As far as the hiring practices you mentioned above, how do you propose to solve those issues? Do you think forcing people to hire minorities is the solution? I'd say it would have the opposite effect.

[DaveE 178]

Was Zimmerman chasing the vehicle when it flipped over? Is that why the defense team canceled the press conference?

The defense team did not cancel the press conference. From the Sanford police department.

"They have expressed to us that they are not comfortable doing media interviews at this time and they continue to ask for privacy," the Seminole City Sheriff's Office said in a statement."

The conference was going to be held at O'Maras office, but the family called and cancelled.

"But they called today and said they were more worried about blow back from saying anything that would be favorable to George, and decided they did not want to do any media," O'Mara said.

Wonder why the family felt like that?

http://abcnews.go.com/US/family-rescued-george-zimmerman-fears-blow-back/story?id=19758908

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

The defense team did not cancel the press conference. From the Sanford police department.

"They have expressed to us that they are not comfortable doing media interviews at this time and they continue to ask for privacy," the Seminole City Sheriff's Office said in a statement."

The conference was going to be held at O'Maras office, but the family called and cancelled.

"But they called today and said they were more worried about blow back from saying anything that would be favorable to George, and decided they did not want to do any media," O'Mara said.

Wonder why the family felt like that?

http://abcnews.go.com/US/family-rescued-george-zimmerman-fears-blow-back/story?id=19758908

So the defense team cancelled it. Understandable.

[Karee 4,190]

The defense team did not cancel the press conference. From the Sanford police department.

"They have expressed to us that they are not comfortable doing media interviews at this time and they continue to ask for privacy," the Seminole City Sheriff's Office said in a statement."

The conference was going to be held at O'Maras office, but the family called and cancelled.

"But they called today and said they were more worried about blow back from saying anything that would be favorable to George, and decided they did not want to do any media," O'Mara said.

Wonder why the family felt like that?

http://abcnews.go.com/US/family-rescued-george-zimmerman-fears-blow-back/story?id=19758908

Yeah exactly. Saying anything good about GZ could possibly get Al, Jesse, and Piers calling you a racist that supports killing black teenagers.

[Teddy B 17,252]

Like I've said before, If GZ was black, he probably had a better chance of being convicted. Now that doesn't mean I think GZ was guilty, it means I think he was innocent, but there's a higher probably that that he would have been unfairly convicted if he was black. Being black carries a stigma that blacks commit more crimes than whites. It's actually not really a stigma, it's a statistical fact. Our justice system should not convict people based on stigmas and statistics or whatever. Unfortunately that is the case sometimes, and it's wrong. Having said that, blacks do commit crimes at a much higher rate compared to whites. You can cherry pick rape and mass murders and say "See whites do bad things as well" I get it.

Now, I get your point that racism still exists out there. I know that it does. What's the best way go about fixing it? That I don't know, but I think I know how NOT to try and fix it. This trial is a perfect example of how NOT to fix it. I can't speak for every white person out there, but I found myself wondering if I had a kid that was in the same situation as TM, what would happen? Would the president speak about it? Would there be rallies? Would there be 24 hour wall to wall news coverage? Of course not. There has not been one SINGLE piece of evidence that GZ killing TM had anything to do with his race. None. Zero. Zilch. Yet now this case has become the case study of what's wrong with race relations in this country. Why? I'm not seeing it. There's no evidence that GZ did anything but defend himself. Now Marvin you can sit there all day dreaming up these "what if this, what if that" scenarios, but it doesn't change the evidence that TM jumped on the guy and start beating him and GZ killed him for it. I personally think it would go along way for folks like Al and Jesse to say" look, the guy was defending himself and race didn't play a part in this" I know that the sun will rise in the west before that ever happens, and therein lies the problem.

In my mind this case has had the opposite effect of bringing people together because there was no racial component to this case other than GZ happened to be white and TM happened to be black. So it's a bunch of outrage over racism that doesn't exist in this case. There's alot of dead black people that are dead due to racism. TM isn't one of them.

As far as the hiring practices you mentioned above, how do you propose to solve those issues? Do you think forcing people to hire minorities is the solution? I'd say it would have the opposite effect.

[Teddy B 17,252]

In my mind this case has had the opposite effect of bringing people together because there was no racial component to this case other than GZ happened to be white and TM happened to be black. So it's a bunch of outrage over racism that doesn't exist in this case. There's alot of dead black people that are dead due to racism. TM isn't one of them.

This is probably the worst outcome of this entire case. It's a disservice to those people who have actually suffered from racism, to claim racism played a part in this case.I honestly thought and still do think that GZ was guilty of criminal negligence. After hearing these continuous false cries of racism by the usual race baiters and reading the nonstop posts about it here, it's put me in a spot of I really don't care anymore. And it will make it a lot harder for myself and other people to believe claims of racism in the future.

[Ban Hammer 13,407]

Maybe the Canadians will swoop in with their strong dollar and save it. They bought the Silverdome for 500k USD in 2009. It was built in 1975 at a cost of $225 million in todays dollars. That ought to tell you something right there.

maybe we can sell them michigan?

[Teddy B 17,252]

maybe we can sell them michigan?

I'll be in Windsor, on the Detroit River, in November, I'll see if I can get some talks going.

[Ban Hammer 13,407]

i'm not going through this again with you. the act of following someone is confrontational, especially when following someone without reason.

that could explain road rage. hey you're following me!

[Karee 4,190]

maybe we can sell them michigan?

Maybe just sell them Wayne County. The rest of Michigan is a pretty nice place, except for maybe Flint. Flint can probably be saved though since it's smaller. Crossing the bridge or tunnel into Windsor is like being transported into an entirely different world. It's bizarre.

I'll be in Windsor, on the Detroit River, in November, I'll see if I can get some talks going.

Stay on the Canadian side unless you're armed.

[Penny Lane 8,159]

Detroit/Windsor was my POE. It was interesting.

[Karee 4,190]

This is probably the worst outcome of this entire case. It's a disservice to those people who have actually suffered from racism, to claim racism played a part in this case.I honestly thought and still do think that GZ was guilty of criminal negligence. After hearing these continuous false cries of racism by the usual race baiters and reading the nonstop posts about it here, it's put me in a spot of I really don't care anymore. And it will make it a lot harder for myself and other people to believe claims of racism in the future.

Bingo. That's what I've been saying all along. There's plenty of cases out there where race IS/WAS a factor. This aint one of them. Marvin pointed out a couple a few days ago. That Fruitvale thing and another one in New York, although those were cops doing the killing.

[GandD 5,966]

that could explain road rage. hey you're following me!

Interesting that you say that. Like 9 months or so back, there was a shooting death here in our town. It was a road rage confrontation in which a sheriff bailiff shot and killed a former constable. It was all based on road rage. The shooter got out of his car with his gun, the victim reached for his gun and the shooter killed him. Guess who's not in jail?

Oh yeah, everyone involved was white for those of you that need these sort of details.

Edited July 25, 2013 by GandD

[Karee 4,190]

Detroit/Windsor was my POE. It was interesting.

Did you go through during the day? If you did, I bet you were amazed by what a difference a mile makes.

Interesting that you say that. Like 9 months or so back, there was a shooting death here in our town. It was a road rage confrontation in which a sheriff bailiff shot and killed a former constable. It was all based on road rage. The shooter got out of his car with his gun, the victim reached for his gun and the shooter killed him. Guess who's not in jail?

Oh yeah, everyone involved was white for those of you that need these sort of details.

Hopefully both of them since they're cops.

[decocker 7,198]

that could explain road rage. hey you're following me!

that's different. unless they're tailgating. then ftw, pop a cap in that soccer mom's #######.