Illegal aliens murder

[peezey 0]

Just because something isn't a felony doesn't mean it can't be illegal.

For instance, driving 80 miles-per-hour in a school zone is illegal. Is that a felony? No, it is not. However, you will be ticketed for it. You might even be fined or see jail time.

Now here's the spot where a lot of people get confused -- there's a difference between jail and prison. You will receive a prison sentence for a felony; however, you can receive jail time for anything less than a felony. So while being an "illegal alien" (I refuse to call them anything but that; even my Canadian fiancee thinks the term "illegal alien" is just and apt, and that if someone wants into this country, they must do it legally) is not a felony and they may not be put in prison, they might be put in jail.

I really don't see the confusion here. If you violate the laws (to whatever degree) of the United States, you may be arrested. That doesn't mean you necessarily will be arrested, but you can -- and most likely -- be arrested. That's the point. It probably comes doen to the discretion of the officer(s) at the scene, like most law enforcement situations.

The basic idea is that if you want to immigrate to the U.S., then do it legally. If you don't, you're breaking the law -- plain and simple. The penalties could range from being sent back over the border to being held in jail to possibly getting shot by the border patrol. It's dangerous to your own health to attempt crossing illegally, so it's in your best interests to do so legally.

I also have difficulty understanding why anyone on this board -- a place where we're trying to bring our loved ones over to the U.S. legally -- would be accepting of illegal immigration practices. If anything, such activity just makes our jobs more difficult.

I don't understand either. It seems that to some here if we want our laws respected then for some reason we are racist or zenophobic. I am neither. I don't care where your from, if you want to come to the USA do it legally. If you do it outside the law then your a criminal and should be punished.

I won't speak for others, but I'd label you as this, not because you care deeply about upholding immigration laws but because of all the other b.s. you've thrown out here insulting groups of people, generalizing, stereotyping, and generally speaking in a racists, xenophobic way.

3 errors in 3 sentences. Come on, stop with the rhetoric.

I will stop with the rhetoric when they stop coming in and commiting crimes.

Why dont' you stick to facts and solid arguments instead of fear mongering? Just my opinion, but people seem to take better to the truth, rather than lies.

Edited December 1, 2006 by peezey

[GaryC 7]

Just because something isn't a felony doesn't mean it can't be illegal.

For instance, driving 80 miles-per-hour in a school zone is illegal. Is that a felony? No, it is not. However, you will be ticketed for it. You might even be fined or see jail time.

Now here's the spot where a lot of people get confused -- there's a difference between jail and prison. You will receive a prison sentence for a felony; however, you can receive jail time for anything less than a felony. So while being an "illegal alien" (I refuse to call them anything but that; even my Canadian fiancee thinks the term "illegal alien" is just and apt, and that if someone wants into this country, they must do it legally) is not a felony and they may not be put in prison, they might be put in jail.

I really don't see the confusion here. If you violate the laws (to whatever degree) of the United States, you may be arrested. That doesn't mean you necessarily will be arrested, but you can -- and most likely -- be arrested. That's the point. It probably comes doen to the discretion of the officer(s) at the scene, like most law enforcement situations.

The basic idea is that if you want to immigrate to the U.S., then do it legally. If you don't, you're breaking the law -- plain and simple. The penalties could range from being sent back over the border to being held in jail to possibly getting shot by the border patrol. It's dangerous to your own health to attempt crossing illegally, so it's in your best interests to do so legally.

I also have difficulty understanding why anyone on this board -- a place where we're trying to bring our loved ones over to the U.S. legally -- would be accepting of illegal immigration practices. If anything, such activity just makes our jobs more difficult.

I don't understand either. It seems that to some here if we want our laws respected then for some reason we are racist or zenophobic. I am neither. I don't care where your from, if you want to come to the USA do it legally. If you do it outside the law then your a criminal and should be punished.

I won't speak for others, but I'd label you as this, not because you care deeply about upholding immigration laws but because of all the other b.s. you've thrown out here insulting groups of people, generalizing, stereotyping, and generally speaking in a racists, xenophobic way.

Really? Please enlighten me. What insults of groups, generalizing, stereotyping and generally speaking in a racist, xenophobic way is this?

[peezey 0]

Just because something isn't a felony doesn't mean it can't be illegal.

For instance, driving 80 miles-per-hour in a school zone is illegal. Is that a felony? No, it is not. However, you will be ticketed for it. You might even be fined or see jail time.

Now here's the spot where a lot of people get confused -- there's a difference between jail and prison. You will receive a prison sentence for a felony; however, you can receive jail time for anything less than a felony. So while being an "illegal alien" (I refuse to call them anything but that; even my Canadian fiancee thinks the term "illegal alien" is just and apt, and that if someone wants into this country, they must do it legally) is not a felony and they may not be put in prison, they might be put in jail.

I really don't see the confusion here. If you violate the laws (to whatever degree) of the United States, you may be arrested. That doesn't mean you necessarily will be arrested, but you can -- and most likely -- be arrested. That's the point. It probably comes doen to the discretion of the officer(s) at the scene, like most law enforcement situations.

The basic idea is that if you want to immigrate to the U.S., then do it legally. If you don't, you're breaking the law -- plain and simple. The penalties could range from being sent back over the border to being held in jail to possibly getting shot by the border patrol. It's dangerous to your own health to attempt crossing illegally, so it's in your best interests to do so legally.

I also have difficulty understanding why anyone on this board -- a place where we're trying to bring our loved ones over to the U.S. legally -- would be accepting of illegal immigration practices. If anything, such activity just makes our jobs more difficult.

I don't understand either. It seems that to some here if we want our laws respected then for some reason we are racist or zenophobic. I am neither. I don't care where your from, if you want to come to the USA do it legally. If you do it outside the law then your a criminal and should be punished.

I won't speak for others, but I'd label you as this, not because you care deeply about upholding immigration laws but because of all the other b.s. you've thrown out here insulting groups of people, generalizing, stereotyping, and generally speaking in a racists, xenophobic way.

Really? Please enlighten me. What insults of groups, generalizing, stereotyping and generally speaking in a racist, xenophobic way is this?

I pointed this out earlier, pedroh did as well. Not sure how you missed it.

[GaryC 7]

Just because something isn't a felony doesn't mean it can't be illegal.

For instance, driving 80 miles-per-hour in a school zone is illegal. Is that a felony? No, it is not. However, you will be ticketed for it. You might even be fined or see jail time.

Now here's the spot where a lot of people get confused -- there's a difference between jail and prison. You will receive a prison sentence for a felony; however, you can receive jail time for anything less than a felony. So while being an "illegal alien" (I refuse to call them anything but that; even my Canadian fiancee thinks the term "illegal alien" is just and apt, and that if someone wants into this country, they must do it legally) is not a felony and they may not be put in prison, they might be put in jail.

I really don't see the confusion here. If you violate the laws (to whatever degree) of the United States, you may be arrested. That doesn't mean you necessarily will be arrested, but you can -- and most likely -- be arrested. That's the point. It probably comes doen to the discretion of the officer(s) at the scene, like most law enforcement situations.

The basic idea is that if you want to immigrate to the U.S., then do it legally. If you don't, you're breaking the law -- plain and simple. The penalties could range from being sent back over the border to being held in jail to possibly getting shot by the border patrol. It's dangerous to your own health to attempt crossing illegally, so it's in your best interests to do so legally.

I also have difficulty understanding why anyone on this board -- a place where we're trying to bring our loved ones over to the U.S. legally -- would be accepting of illegal immigration practices. If anything, such activity just makes our jobs more difficult.

I don't understand either. It seems that to some here if we want our laws respected then for some reason we are racist or zenophobic. I am neither. I don't care where your from, if you want to come to the USA do it legally. If you do it outside the law then your a criminal and should be punished.

I won't speak for others, but I'd label you as this, not because you care deeply about upholding immigration laws but because of all the other b.s. you've thrown out here insulting groups of people, generalizing, stereotyping, and generally speaking in a racists, xenophobic way.

Really? Please enlighten me. What insults of groups, generalizing, stereotyping and generally speaking in a racist, xenophobic way is this?

I pointed this out earlier, pedroh did as well. Not sure how you missed it.

Just because I mixed up the country of origin for the MS13 gang then I am all those things? Wow! You sure have a very strange view of things.

You accuse me of these things then I insist you show me my quotes that lead you to think this.

Why dont' you stick to facts and solid arguments instead of fear mongering? Just my opinion, but people seem to take better to the truth, rather than lies.

I am not fear mongering. There are 12 million illegal aliens in this country. Thats a fact. They have broken our laws. Thats a fact. What else is there to say? You seem to want to just ignore the fact that our laws have been broken and in your own racist way accuse me of racism if I object to it.

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

I am not fear mongering. There are 12 million illegal aliens in this country. Thats a fact. They have broken our laws. Thats a fact. What else is there to say? You seem to want to just ignore the fact that our laws have been broken and in your own racist way accuse me of racism if I object to it.

To many people around here stating facts is racism in itself. So sad.

[GaryC 7]

I am not fear mongering. There are 12 million illegal aliens in this country. Thats a fact. They have broken our laws. Thats a fact. What else is there to say? You seem to want to just ignore the fact that our laws have been broken and in your own racist way accuse me of racism if I object to it.

To many people around here stating facts is racism in itself. So sad.

It is sad. I'm sorry but this has me steamed. I am absolutly not a racist and I want that accusation retracted or proven. Wanting our laws obeyed is not racism. I don't care if your from latin-america, asia, europe or africa. If your here without a visa it's wrong.

[Jenn! 918]

It is sad. I'm sorry but this has me steamed. I am absolutly not a racist and I want that accusation retracted or proven. Wanting our laws obeyed is not racism. I don't care if your from latin-america, asia, europe or africa. If your here without a visa it's wrong.

How can that be proven? It's an opinion.

There are many people who are of the opinion that if you oppose affirmative action for example, then you are racist. For them A means B, but it doesn't to you. Why must anything be proven?

[GaryC 7]

It is sad. I'm sorry but this has me steamed. I am absolutly not a racist and I want that accusation retracted or proven. Wanting our laws obeyed is not racism. I don't care if your from latin-america, asia, europe or africa. If your here without a visa it's wrong.

How can that be proven? It's an opinion.

There are many people who are of the opinion that if you oppose affirmative action for example, then you are racist. For them A means B, but it doesn't to you. Why must anything be proven?

Proven from the same evidence he used to accuse me. What I have posted here.

I won't speak for others, but I'd label you as this, not because you care deeply about upholding immigration laws but because of all the other b.s. you've thrown out here insulting groups of people, generalizing, stereotyping, and generally speaking in a racists, xenophobic way.

I have said none of that. I want him to show me where I made statements like that.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

This seems to becoming a circular argument. Those who claim illegal aliens are criminal do so by the logic that because they have not followed our immigration laws, their act is criminal which is totally false.

Gary, I'm trying to find information for you, but as far as I know, if you are found to be here illegally, you are not put in prison. They may hold you in a jail cell to later deport you, but think about it, if they were criminal, why would you be let out of jail?

Again a felony is felony and the term 'criminal' has always applied to those convicted of a felony.

Being here illegal is not a felony and therefore illegal aliens are not criminals.

Why argue over what seems as petty semantics? Because by calling them criminal, it implies that they are deviant and a danger to society, which is baseless and dishonest.

Edited December 1, 2006 by Steven_and_Jinky

[GaryC 7]

This seems to becoming a circular argument. Those who claim illegal aliens are criminal do so by the logic that because they have not followed our immigration laws, their act is criminal which is totally false.

Gary, I'm trying to find information for you, but as far as I know, if you are found to be here illegally, you are not put in prison. They may hold you in a jail cell to later deport you, but think about it, if they were criminal, why would they let them out of jail?

Again a felony is felony and the term 'criminal' has always applied to those convicted of felony.

Being here illegal is not a felony and therefore illegal aliens are not criminals.

Why argue over what seems as petty semantics? Because by calling them criminal, it implies that they are deviant and a danger to society, which is baseless and dishonest.

Sorry Steven, you must have missed this earlier. Here is the law:

Sec. 1325. Improper entry by alien

STATUTE

(a) Improper time or place; avoidance of examination or inspection; misrepresentation and concealment of facts Any alien who -

(1) enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers, or

(2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers, or

(3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than six months, or both, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or imprisoned not more than two years or both.

( Improper time or place, civil penalties - Any alien who is apprehended while entering (or attempting to enter) the United States at a time or place other than as designated by immigration officers shall be subject to a civil penalty of -

(1) at least $50 and not more than $250 for each such entry (or attempted entry); or

(2) twice the amount specified in paragraph (1) in the case of an alien who has been previously subject to a civil penalty under this subsection. Civil penalties under this subsection are in addition to, and not in lieu of, any criminal or other civil penalties that may be imposed.

© Marriage fraud - Any individual who knowingly enters into a marriage for the purpose of evading any provision of the immigration laws shall be imprisoned for not more than 5 years, or fined not more than $250,000 or both.

(d) Immigration-related entrepreneurship fraud - Any individual who knowingly establishes a commercial enterprise for the purpose of evading any provision of the immigration laws shall be imprisoned for not more than 5 years, fined in accordance with title 18, or both.

http://trac.syr.edu/laws/08USC1325.html

You can go to jail as a punishment for coming here illegaly. That makes breaking immigration laws a criminal offense.

[peezey 0]

It is sad. I'm sorry but this has me steamed. I am absolutly not a racist and I want that accusation retracted or proven. Wanting our laws obeyed is not racism. I don't care if your from latin-america, asia, europe or africa. If your here without a visa it's wrong.

How can that be proven? It's an opinion.

There are many people who are of the opinion that if you oppose affirmative action for example, then you are racist. For them A means B, but it doesn't to you. Why must anything be proven?

Proven from the same evidence he used to accuse me. What I have posted here.

I won't speak for others, but I'd label you as this, not because you care deeply about upholding immigration laws but because of all the other b.s. you've thrown out here insulting groups of people, generalizing, stereotyping, and generally speaking in a racists, xenophobic way.

I have said none of that. I want him to show me where I made statements like that.

Are you this outspoken and virulent about other law-breaking issues? Look, I do have the overall opinion that those who are so negatively charged re: illegal immigration are a ) not effected by it and shouldn't talk about it until they live in a state where it is an issue or B ) talk about this one issue as if it's equivalent to say, CEOs stealing billiions from the working class and any number of other things are simply xenophobic and/or racist and/or ignorant of the truth about how this effects our states and our country.

I also don't think, as you stated, that because you "work with hispanics" means you aren't racist, as you replied to pedroh. I work with new college graduates and I don't want to and I have pre-conceived notions of them, but I still do it. It doesn't mean any of my prejudices about them go away. That argument is used on and on yet is meaningless.

It's my opinion, yes, I am now generalizing about people who are so vehemently opposed to illegal immigrants, so I am anti anti illegal immigrant arguers.

Edited December 1, 2006 by peezey

[one...two...tree 2,762]

It is sad. I'm sorry but this has me steamed. I am absolutly not a racist and I want that accusation retracted or proven. Wanting our laws obeyed is not racism. I don't care if your from latin-america, asia, europe or africa. If your here without a visa it's wrong.

How can that be proven? It's an opinion.

There are many people who are of the opinion that if you oppose affirmative action for example, then you are racist. For them A means B, but it doesn't to you. Why must anything be proven?

Proven from the same evidence he used to accuse me. What I have posted here.

I won't speak for others, but I'd label you as this, not because you care deeply about upholding immigration laws but because of all the other b.s. you've thrown out here insulting groups of people, generalizing, stereotyping, and generally speaking in a racists, xenophobic way.

I have said none of that. I want him to show me where I made statements like that.

I don't think it's productive to be attacking Gary's character. Can we stay focused on the discussion without it getting personal? Even if one were to assume someone here a racist, there's nothing you can do but engage them in a debate over their views.

[peezey 0]

It is sad. I'm sorry but this has me steamed. I am absolutly not a racist and I want that accusation retracted or proven. Wanting our laws obeyed is not racism. I don't care if your from latin-america, asia, europe or africa. If your here without a visa it's wrong.

How can that be proven? It's an opinion.

There are many people who are of the opinion that if you oppose affirmative action for example, then you are racist. For them A means B, but it doesn't to you. Why must anything be proven?

Proven from the same evidence he used to accuse me. What I have posted here.

I won't speak for others, but I'd label you as this, not because you care deeply about upholding immigration laws but because of all the other b.s. you've thrown out here insulting groups of people, generalizing, stereotyping, and generally speaking in a racists, xenophobic way.

I have said none of that. I want him to show me where I made statements like that.

I don't think it's productive to be attacking Gary's character. Can we stay focused on the discussion without it getting personal? Even if one were to assume someone here a racist, there's nothing you can do but engage them in a debate over their views.

I apologize if I've brought down the debate, but as always, I am unsure how to leave statements alone that generalize groups of people in a negative way.

[GaryC 7]

Are you this outspoken and virulent about other law-breaking issues? Look, I do have the overall opinion that those who are so negatively charged re: illegal immigration are a ) not effected by it and shouldn't talk about it until they live in a state where it is an issue or B ) talk about this one issue as if it's equivalent to say, CEOs stealing billiions from the working class and any number of other things are simply xenophobic and/or racist and/or ignorant of the truth about how this effects our states and our country.

I also don't think, as you stated, that because you "work with hispanics" means you aren't racist, as you replied to pedroh. I work with new college graduates and I don't want to and I have pre-conceived notions of them, but I still do it. It doesn't mean any of my prejudices about them go away. That argument is used on and on yet is meaningless.

It's my opinion, yes, I am now generalizing about people who are so vehemently opposed to illegal immigrants, so I am anti anti illegal immigrant arguers.

As a matter of fact I am as outspoken about other laws and enforcing them. As others will tell you I am VERY conservative and that runs to the enforcement of our laws. I know that just because I "work" with hispanics does not make me or not make me a racist. BUT I VERY MUCH OBJECT to being called a racist when you have NO IDEA WHO I AM!!!!. Wanting our laws enforced does not make me a racist!!! I don't give a damn who you are or where you come from. If you want to be here then do it legally!

ETA. Ok you were apologizing while I was responding. I am also sorry if I got too heated with the subject. I really am not racist. I just don't like seeing others thumb their noses at our laws as if the have some sort of right to do it. Just because you disagree with a law does not give one the right to ignore it.

Edited December 1, 2006 by Iniibig ko si Luz forever

[Jenn! 918]

As a matter of fact I am as outspoken about other laws and enforcing them. As others will tell you I am VERY conservitive and that runs to the enforcement of our laws. I know that just because I "work" with hispanics does not make me or not make me a racist. BUT I VERY MUCH OBJECT to being called a racist when you have NO IDEA WHO I AM!!!!. Wanting our laws enforced does not make me a racist!!! I don't give a damn who you are or where you come from. If you want to be here then do it legally!

Do you think that some of our immigration laws - ie. who is eligible for visas - are racist in themselves? If so, would supporting our current immigration laws be racist then?