Illegal aliens murder

[GaryC 7]

Are you aware of the difference between civil and criminal laws?

In criminal law, a guilty defendant is punished by either (1) incarceration in a jail or prison, (2) fine paid to the government, or, in exceptional cases, (3) execution of the defendant: the death penalty.

In contrast, a defendant in civil litigation is never incarcerated and never executed. In general, a losing defendant in civil litigation only reimburses the plaintiff for losses caused by the defendant's behavior.

http://www.thelegalcare.com/civil-law.asp

People who break immigration law are not breaking civil law they are breaking federal law. They are criminals.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

People who break immigration law are not breaking civil law they are breaking federal law. They are criminals.

They are not criminals. Look it up.

Sorry, but you know how I like to post articles I edited down but I hope you'll read this...

Are Illegal Immigrants Criminals? Not!

by Ken Schoolland, Posted July 15, 2005

I hear it from some of the nicest people one would ever meet. Some dear friends of mine, whom I respect very much, say that all illegal immigrants are criminals because they broke the laws that control who may come into this country. And since these immigrants are criminals, we don’t want that kind of person here.

Such accusations confuse what is legal with what is moral. American history is filled with people who broke unjust laws and were morally justified in doing so.

The American Revolution was fought by men and women who broke the laws of England and of King George III. Had they been arrested, they would have been hanged for treason to the Crown. If breaking the law makes one a criminal, then the Founding Fathers were all criminals. But no one still believes that today.

Dred Scott and thousands of other slaves defied the Fugitive Slave Act and ran away, “stealing themselves” from Southern plantation masters in the early and mid 1800s. Those who were arrested were returned to their slave “owners,” and anyone found trying to help them escape to Canada was prosecuted as well.

Many juries exercised jury nullification. Declaring that the law was unjust, juries often refused to convict participants in the Underground Railroad. No one today would claim that a runaway slave was a criminal.

In the 1930s there were hundreds of Jews who came to American shores aboard the SS St. Louis, forcibly rejected under the guise of immigration quotas, many of whom ultimately perished in Hitler’s concentration camps. Countless potential immigrants watched in desperate disappointment.

But suppose those passengers had defied immigration law and jumped ship in Miami harbor. Would anyone today call them criminals? I think not. Indeed, those who returned Jews to their persecutors might be considered guilty of collaborating with villainy — albeit legal villainy.

http://www.fff.org/freedom/fd0503h.asp

[GaryC 7]

People who break immigration law are not breaking civil law they are breaking federal law. They are criminals.

They are not criminals. Look it up.

Sorry, but you know how I like to post articles I edited down but I hope you'll read this...

Are Illegal Immigrants Criminals? Not!

by Ken Schoolland, Posted July 15, 2005

I hear it from some of the nicest people one would ever meet. Some dear friends of mine, whom I respect very much, say that all illegal immigrants are criminals because they broke the laws that control who may come into this country. And since these immigrants are criminals, we don’t want that kind of person here.

Such accusations confuse what is legal with what is moral. American history is filled with people who broke unjust laws and were morally justified in doing so.

The American Revolution was fought by men and women who broke the laws of England and of King George III. Had they been arrested, they would have been hanged for treason to the Crown. If breaking the law makes one a criminal, then the Founding Fathers were all criminals. But no one still believes that today.

Dred Scott and thousands of other slaves defied the Fugitive Slave Act and ran away, “stealing themselves” from Southern plantation masters in the early and mid 1800s. Those who were arrested were returned to their slave “owners,” and anyone found trying to help them escape to Canada was prosecuted as well.

Many juries exercised jury nullification. Declaring that the law was unjust, juries often refused to convict participants in the Underground Railroad. No one today would claim that a runaway slave was a criminal.

In the 1930s there were hundreds of Jews who came to American shores aboard the SS St. Louis, forcibly rejected under the guise of immigration quotas, many of whom ultimately perished in Hitler’s concentration camps. Countless potential immigrants watched in desperate disappointment.

But suppose those passengers had defied immigration law and jumped ship in Miami harbor. Would anyone today call them criminals? I think not. Indeed, those who returned Jews to their persecutors might be considered guilty of collaborating with villainy — albeit legal villainy.

http://www.fff.org/freedom/fd0503h.asp

That is this persons opinion. The fact remains that they are breaking the law, that makes them criminals.

[Carlawarla 1]

Great discussion/debates!

Aside from the illegal/legal criminal/non-criminal aspect, I think the article was saying that these "people", (haha whatever you want to call them), are committing crimes? (not just coming across the border illegally).

So my understanding is that crimes committed, are the "criminal" crimes that our society has said are criminal...ie. Criminal Code, and these are the "crimes" they're talking about in the article. ''

Carla

[GaryC 7]

Great discussion/debates!

Aside from the illegal/legal criminal/non-criminal aspect, I think the article was saying that these "people", (haha whatever you want to call them), are committing crimes? (not just coming across the border illegally).

So my understanding is that crimes committed, are the "criminal" crimes that our society has said are criminal...ie. Criminal Code, and these are the "crimes" they're talking about in the article. ''

Carla

Yes, thats true. Some, not all!!, have a total disregard for our laws. They see the USA as a hunting ground for their criminal activities. This mexican gang M13 comes to mind. They are infiltrating into our cities and setting up drug business's.

[pedroh 21]

ehm.. the MS13 is not Mexican... please stop confusing all brown people as the same... Mexico is just Mexico, not El Salvador, not Guatemala or other country..

Mara Salvatrucha is mainly from El Salvador Gary, I know that for you all Mexicans, legal or illegal are criminals , but MS13 is definitely not thanks to the Mexicans, if u wanna talk about Mexican Gangs, talk about Los Eses, The MExican Mafia and the New Mexican Mafia, and the Latin kings, not the MS13...

[GaryC 7]

ehm.. the MS13 is not Mexican... please stop confusing all brown people as the same... Mexico is just Mexico, not El Salvador, not Guatemala or other country..

Mara Salvatrucha is mainly from El Salvador Gary, I know that for you all Mexicans, legal or illegal are criminals , but MS13 is definitely not thanks to the Mexicans, if u wanna talk about Mexican Gangs, talk about Los Eses, The MExican Mafia and the New Mexican Mafia, and the Latin kings, not the MS13...

Ok, I stand corrected. MS13 is not Mexican. But no, please don't put words in my mouth. I never said that all Mexicans are criminals. I work with many latinos, some of which are from Mexico and they are here legally. They are definatly not criminals. Your showing your predjudice now.

And please don't accuse me of lumping all brown people together. My fiance is brown after all. I just got confused with where that MS13 gang came from.

Edited December 1, 2006 by Iniibig ko si Luz forever

[Ban Hammer 13,333]

For the same reason I follow the traffic laws (for the most part). But Gary, you've just ignored what was stated above - the difference between criminal and civil law. An immigrant who is here illegally is not a criminal and that's the legal fact, nor should they be regarded as criminal.

Do you think they should be regarded as felons?

what do you put in your coffee, steven? someone who is here illegally is not a criminal. snicker

[one...two...tree 2,762]

For the same reason I follow the traffic laws (for the most part). But Gary, you've just ignored what was stated above - the difference between criminal and civil law. An immigrant who is here illegally is not a criminal and that's the legal fact, nor should they be regarded as criminal.

Do you think they should be regarded as felons?

what do you put in your coffee, steven? someone who is here illegally is not a criminal. snicker

Here ya go, Charles... sign the petition if you want to make it a crime...

http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/greenmen

But until then, it's not a felony. That's the fact, Jack.

[GaryC 7]

For the same reason I follow the traffic laws (for the most part). But Gary, you've just ignored what was stated above - the difference between criminal and civil law. An immigrant who is here illegally is not a criminal and that's the legal fact, nor should they be regarded as criminal.

Do you think they should be regarded as felons?

what do you put in your coffee, steven? someone who is here illegally is not a criminal. snicker

Here ya go, Charles... sign the petition if you want to make it a crime...

http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/greenmen

But until then, it's not a felony. That's the fact, Jack.

Just because it isn't a felony does not make it any less of a crime. Immigration laws are federal laws. To violate them is a crime. If it were not then whats the use of having them?

Ask yourself a few questions.

If you violated immigration laws can you be arrested? YES!!

If you violated immigration laws is jail a possible penalty? YES!!

Then it's a crime to violate them!!!

If it's a crime to violate them and if you do your a criminal!!

Jeez how hard is it to understand?

Here is the penalties for violating immigration law. More specifically entering without a visa.

HEAD

Sec. 1325. Improper entry by alien

STATUTE

(a) Improper time or place; avoidance of examination or inspection; misrepresentation and concealment of facts Any alien who -

(1) enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers, or

(2) eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers, or

(3) attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than six months, or both, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or imprisoned not more than two years or both.

(B) Improper time or place, civil penalties - Any alien who is apprehended while entering (or attempting to enter) the United States at a time or place other than as designated by immigration officers shall be subject to a civil penalty of -

(1) at least $50 and not more than $250 for each such entry (or attempted entry); or

(2) twice the amount specified in paragraph (1) in the case of an alien who has been previously subject to a civil penalty under this subsection. Civil penalties under this subsection are in addition to, and not in lieu of, any criminal or other civil penalties that may be imposed.

© Marriage fraud - Any individual who knowingly enters into a marriage for the purpose of evading any provision of the immigration laws shall be imprisoned for not more than 5 years, or fined not more than $250,000 or both.

(d) Immigration-related entrepreneurship fraud - Any individual who knowingly establishes a commercial enterprise for the purpose of evading any provision of the immigration laws shall be imprisoned for not more than 5 years, fined in accordance with title 18, or both.

http://trac.syr.edu/laws/08USC1325.html

There it is Steven. If you can go to jail for violating it then that means BY DEFFINITION that it is a CRIME!

Jeez, Just because you don't like a law does not make it OK to violate it.

[DeadPoolX 9]

Just because something isn't a felony doesn't mean it can't be illegal.

For instance, driving 80 miles-per-hour in a school zone is illegal. Is that a felony? No, it is not. However, you will be ticketed for it. You might even be fined or see jail time.

Now here's the spot where a lot of people get confused -- there's a difference between jail and prison. You will receive a prison sentence for a felony; however, you can receive jail time for anything less than a felony. So while being an "illegal alien" (I refuse to call them anything but that; even my Canadian fiancee thinks the term "illegal alien" is just and apt, and that if someone wants into this country, they must do it legally) is not a felony and they may not be put in prison, they might be put in jail.

I really don't see the confusion here. If you violate the laws (to whatever degree) of the United States, you may be arrested. That doesn't mean you necessarily will be arrested, but you can -- and most likely -- be arrested. That's the point. It probably comes doen to the discretion of the officer(s) at the scene, like most law enforcement situations.

The basic idea is that if you want to immigrate to the U.S., then do it legally. If you don't, you're breaking the law -- plain and simple. The penalties could range from being sent back over the border to being held in jail to possibly getting shot by the border patrol. It's dangerous to your own health to attempt crossing illegally, so it's in your best interests to do so legally.

I also have difficulty understanding why anyone on this board -- a place where we're trying to bring our loved ones over to the U.S. legally -- would be accepting of illegal immigration practices. If anything, such activity just makes our jobs more difficult.

[peezey 0]

zomg that website is one of those wacko websites full of #######..

Maybe MS13 is made up then.

yea suddenly I feel a need of buying a Confederate Flag, a WWJD sticker for my Van, and join the MinuteMen.. oh and of course, forget my spanish and just speak Amurkin!!

Is that the hispanic version of Spanish?

I find it hilarious when people make comments like this to supposedly insult, when there actually is a recognized dialect of Mexican English/Spanish that came out of the 40s.

Edited December 1, 2006 by peezey

[GaryC 7]

Just because something isn't a felony doesn't mean it can't be illegal.

For instance, driving 80 miles-per-hour in a school zone is illegal. Is that a felony? No, it is not. However, you will be ticketed for it. You might even be fined or see jail time.

Now here's the spot where a lot of people get confused -- there's a difference between jail and prison. You will receive a prison sentence for a felony; however, you can receive jail time for anything less than a felony. So while being an "illegal alien" (I refuse to call them anything but that; even my Canadian fiancee thinks the term "illegal alien" is just and apt, and that if someone wants into this country, they must do it legally) is not a felony and they may not be put in prison, they might be put in jail.

I really don't see the confusion here. If you violate the laws (to whatever degree) of the United States, you may be arrested. That doesn't mean you necessarily will be arrested, but you can -- and most likely -- be arrested. That's the point. It probably comes doen to the discretion of the officer(s) at the scene, like most law enforcement situations.

The basic idea is that if you want to immigrate to the U.S., then do it legally. If you don't, you're breaking the law -- plain and simple. The penalties could range from being sent back over the border to being held in jail to possibly getting shot by the border patrol. It's dangerous to your own health to attempt crossing illegally, so it's in your best interests to do so legally.

I also have difficulty understanding why anyone on this board -- a place where we're trying to bring our loved ones over to the U.S. legally -- would be accepting of illegal immigration practices. If anything, such activity just makes our jobs more difficult.

I don't understand either. It seems that to some here if we want our laws respected then for some reason we are racist or zenophobic. I am neither. I don't care where your from, if you want to come to the USA do it legally. If you do it outside the law then your a criminal and should be punished.

[peezey 0]

He might be better off doing it that way. From what I hear, people who enter without inspection, immediately get welfare, free health care, housing ( a bunch of other benefits, i forget what they all are) and the red carpet rolled out to them by the politicians.

Steve & I see this all the time in CA....they're called Illegal Alien Health Spas. Lucky bastards.

Great discussion/debates!

Aside from the illegal/legal criminal/non-criminal aspect, I think the article was saying that these "people", (haha whatever you want to call them), are committing crimes? (not just coming across the border illegally).

So my understanding is that crimes committed, are the "criminal" crimes that our society has said are criminal...ie. Criminal Code, and these are the "crimes" they're talking about in the article. ''

Carla

Yes, thats true. Some, not all!!, have a total disregard for our laws. They see the USA as a hunting ground for their criminal activities. This mexican gang M13 comes to mind. They are infiltrating into our cities and setting up drug business's.

3 errors in 3 sentences. Come on, stop with the rhetoric.

[GaryC 7]

He might be better off doing it that way. From what I hear, people who enter without inspection, immediately get welfare, free health care, housing ( a bunch of other benefits, i forget what they all are) and the red carpet rolled out to them by the politicians.

Steve & I see this all the time in CA....they're called Illegal Alien Health Spas. Lucky bastards.

Great discussion/debates!

Aside from the illegal/legal criminal/non-criminal aspect, I think the article was saying that these "people", (haha whatever you want to call them), are committing crimes? (not just coming across the border illegally).

So my understanding is that crimes committed, are the "criminal" crimes that our society has said are criminal...ie. Criminal Code, and these are the "crimes" they're talking about in the article. ''

Carla

Yes, thats true. Some, not all!!, have a total disregard for our laws. They see the USA as a hunting ground for their criminal activities. This mexican gang M13 comes to mind. They are infiltrating into our cities and setting up drug business's.

3 errors in 3 sentences. Come on, stop with the rhetoric.

I will stop with the rhetoric when they stop coming in and commiting crimes.