thursday thread

[peezey 0]

It's not a "real" pic. It was obviously staged.

There is NO WAY actual Muslim guys would actually be praying like that in an actual Muslim country. On a public street, in front of pictures of nearly undressed women ??? No way. Period.

Have you been to them all? No one thought the pic of the girl with the sting shirt on was in a Muslim country, but she was in Beirut (dang they wear very little on the streets there).

I don't see why men couldn't have come out of work and done this, they might work in that store for all we know.

I believe the reason that it offends Islam is because there is enough ####### that is said about them as it is. People here in the US hear the worst of Islam. A picture like this is just one more slap in the face. Muslims are very reverent about their religion and the prophets. Sometimes us Americans don't show enough reverence.

I should have thought about it when I first saw it, I have a lot to learn still.

There is ####### said and jokes made about every single religion, Islam is not immune to it. So do you think people only hear the worst about Islam or are there some individuals that don't portray it in the best light?

It's not a "real" pic. It was obviously staged.

There is NO WAY actual Muslim guys would actually be praying like that in an actual Muslim country. On a public street, in front of pictures of nearly undressed women ??? No way. Period.

It may not be real but either way it is funny. Politically incorrect, sure, but funny. I also think what Rebecca pointed out earlier is very true. If their religious conviction is so strong they may not care about their surroundings, praying in front of a lingerie store is not the only thing that is wrong with it.

My comment was in response to those who had wondered if the pic was "staged" or if it was "real."

Anyway, I understand that many folks might find such a pic funny, and that's certainly their right.

But you have to acknowledge that "funny" is an almost entirely subjective judgment, as is "offensive." Different people have different reactions to this type of humor -- as you can see from some of the reactions described in this thread.

Certainly, jokes have been made about every single religion or even ethnicity. But they are not always welcomed in every setting. For instance, there have been things posted in Off-Topic that humorously "mocked" Christianity. Some of these (predictably) sparked a very negative reaction from more than a few Christian VJers. Some of the items were subsequently removed. I can't think of anyone posting anything that "mocked" Judaism, but (judging from the screams of "anti-Semite" that automatically follow anything critical of the Israeli government) I think it would likely prompt a even stronger backlash. I don't think you were here for the heated debate over Mexico's Memin Peguin stamps last year, but again, it was the divide over what constitutes "offensive." Black people tended to find the images very offensive and racist, while many non-blacks defended them as innocently humorous. Massive fireworks until the thread was locked off.

Anyway, whoever took this photo obviously staged the scene with the intention of provoking or eliciting a certain response.

These men have obviously been praying their whole lives, they are doing everything exactly right. So they are of some level of mulsim-ness, no? So why in the heck, with nice jeans and sweaters on, clearly not super poor, could anyone POSSIBLY have gotten them to do this? And on the remote chance they did, what for? This picture isn't making millions somewhere.

I think this is where these guys work, and where they came out to pray. Simple as that.

[Bosco 1]

It's not a "real" pic. It was obviously staged.

There is NO WAY actual Muslim guys would actually be praying like that in an actual Muslim country. On a public street, in front of pictures of nearly undressed women ??? No way. Period.

Have you been to them all? No one thought the pic of the girl with the sting shirt on was in a Muslim country, but she was in Beirut (dang they wear very little on the streets there).

I don't see why men couldn't have come out of work and done this, they might work in that store for all we know.

I agree. I don't think anyone can say what "actual" Muslims will or will not do. One of my husband's earliest *shocks* here was the day after he arrived at the mosque. There was a shoe rack in the foyer. He is used to keeping his shoes beside him in the mosques in Morocco. He said if you didn't, there would be a chance your shoes would be gone after. We visited an Egyptian who said the same thing and related a story about someone finishing prayer to actually find his new shoes gone when he was back in Egypt. I realize these are two totally different things, but I would never have thought "actual" Muslims would steal shoes at a mosque so I don't automically rule out the possibility of Muslims praying in front of a lingerie store.

Edited December 1, 2006 by Bosco

[cbd2cai 0]

I think this is where these guys work, and where they came out to pray. Simple as that.

That may be true . . . . but I'm not going to buy sexy lingerie from guys, hehe!!! Maybe to them it is a normal everyday thing to show thongs to women, but I'd rather talk to a woman about what I want to wear on my derriere!!

[peezey 0]

I think this is where these guys work, and where they came out to pray. Simple as that.

That may be true . . . . but I'm not going to buy sexy lingerie from guys, hehe!!! Maybe to them it is a normal everyday thing to show thongs to women, but I'd rather talk to a woman about what I want to wear on my derriere!!

I have seen men selling things in ME that I certainly wouldn't think were mens' arena, but yet, there they are. Shoot, here, too. It really irks me that my favorite women's clothing store now has all kinds of young guys in there asking if they can help me! NO!

[~Jackie~ 30]

When Mohammed first came to America we of course had the spend a day shopping. We hit Walmart and Target, and the local mall. We walked past a Victoria's Secret store and he turned all shades of red and ......to this day he blushes when we walk past there.

Jackie

[Ban Hammer 13,340]

When Mohammed first came to America we of course had the spend a day shopping. We hit Walmart and Target, and the local mall. We walked past a Victoria's Secret store and he turned all shades of red and ......to this day he blushes when we walk past there.

Jackie

you gonna watch the victoria's secret show in a few days on tv?

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

It's not a "real" pic. It was obviously staged.

There is NO WAY actual Muslim guys would actually be praying like that in an actual Muslim country. On a public street, in front of pictures of nearly undressed women ??? No way. Period.

Have you been to them all? No one thought the pic of the girl with the sting shirt on was in a Muslim country, but she was in Beirut (dang they wear very little on the streets there).

Hmmm I could ask you the same -- have you asked "everyone" about what they thought of the pic of the woman ?

I didn't comment specifically on it before, but now that you bring it up -- I personally thought it was entirely possible that she might be in Lebanon or perhaps even Turkey.

But I wouldn't exactly characterize Lebanon as a "Muslim" country. It has a sizeable and powerful Christian minority, and the Lebanese legal system is based on a mixture of Ottoman law, canon law, Napoleonic code, and civil law. Lebanon has no official state religion, nor does it recognize sharia as a source of legislation.

Anyway, I stand by what I've said -- in an actual "Muslim" country (meaning one with Islamic law) there is no way a group of guys would be doing this on a public street. I say this for a reason -- in many Muslim countries they could face arrest for such behavior, and even passers-by would likely beat them.

These men have obviously been praying their whole lives, they are doing everything exactly right. So they are of some level of mulsim-ness, no? So why in the heck, with nice jeans and sweaters on, clearly not super poor, could anyone POSSIBLY have gotten them to do this? And on the remote chance they did, what for? This picture isn't making millions somewhere.

I think this is where these guys work, and where they came out to pray. Simple as that.

Hmmmm.... these nicely-dressed, purportedly Muslim men not only all work at a women's lingerie shop (of all places!) but also wouldn't feel the need to find a suitable place to conduct their prayer, even a few steps down the street ?? This argument does nothing to convince me of their "obvious" Muslim-ness. In fact, it only supports the idea that the scene was "staged."

Of course the point of the photo was not at all to "make millions." As I said, it was intended to elicit a particular response in the viewer.

[Ban Hammer 13,340]

But I wouldn't exactly characterize Lebanon as a "Muslim" country. It has a sizeable and powerful Christian minority, and the Lebanese legal system is based on a mixture of Ottoman law, canon law, Napoleonic code, and civil law. Lebanon has no official state religion, nor does it recognize sharia as a source of legislation.

methinks that might be changing soon

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...mp;#entry597939

[jordanianprincess 0]

I believe the reason that it offends Islam is because there is enough ####### that is said about them as it is. People here in the US hear the worst of Islam. A picture like this is just one more slap in the face. Muslims are very reverent about their religion and the prophets. Sometimes us Americans don't show enough reverence.

I should have thought about it when I first saw it, I have a lot to learn still.

There is ####### said and jokes made about every single religion, Islam is not immune to it. So do you think people only hear the worst about Islam or are there some individuals that don't portray it in the best light?

It's not a "real" pic. It was obviously staged.

There is NO WAY actual Muslim guys would actually be praying like that in an actual Muslim country. On a public street, in front of pictures of nearly undressed women ??? No way. Period.

It may not be real but either way it is funny. Politically incorrect, sure, but funny. I also think what Rebecca pointed out earlier is very true. If their religious conviction is so strong they may not care about their surroundings, praying in front of a lingerie store is not the only thing that is wrong with it.

My comment was in response to those who had wondered if the pic was "staged" or if it was "real."

Anyway, I understand that many folks might find such a pic funny, and that's certainly their right.

But you have to acknowledge that "funny" is an almost entirely subjective judgment, as is "offensive." Different people have different reactions to this type of humor -- as you can see from some of the reactions described in this thread.

Certainly, jokes have been made about every single religion or even ethnicity. But they are not always welcomed in every setting. For instance, there have been things posted in Off-Topic that humorously "mocked" Christianity. Some of these (predictably) sparked a very negative reaction from more than a few Christian VJers. Some of the items were subsequently removed. I can't think of anyone posting anything that "mocked" Judaism, but (judging from the screams of "anti-Semite" that automatically follow anything critical of the Israeli government) I think it would likely prompt a even stronger backlash. I don't think you were here for the heated debate over Mexico's Memin Peguin stamps last year, but again, it was the divide over what constitutes "offensive." Black people tended to find the images very offensive and racist, while many non-blacks defended them as innocently humorous. Massive fireworks until the thread was locked off.

Anyway, whoever took this photo obviously staged the scene with the intention of provoking or eliciting a certain response.

Did I say it was real? I realize everyone has a different type of humor and I also realize that some people don't have a sense of humor at all.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

But I wouldn't exactly characterize Lebanon as a "Muslim" country. It has a sizeable and powerful Christian minority, and the Lebanese legal system is based on a mixture of Ottoman law, canon law, Napoleonic code, and civil law. Lebanon has no official state religion, nor does it recognize sharia as a source of legislation.

methinks that might be changing soon

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...mp;#entry597939

You didn't read the article closely enough. Note where it mentions the Lebanese Christian opposition leader, Michel Aoun. He has joined Hezbollah in the protest calling for Siniora and his cabinet to step down.

[Ban Hammer 13,340]

But I wouldn't exactly characterize Lebanon as a "Muslim" country. It has a sizeable and powerful Christian minority, and the Lebanese legal system is based on a mixture of Ottoman law, canon law, Napoleonic code, and civil law. Lebanon has no official state religion, nor does it recognize sharia as a source of legislation.

methinks that might be changing soon

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...mp;#entry597939

You didn't read the article closely enough. Note where it mentions the Lebanese Christian opposition leader, Michel Aoun. He has joined Hezbollah in the protest calling for Siniora and his cabinet to step down.

that long list of lebanon legal system above might be revised soon, was my point. sorry it was over your head.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Did I say it was real? I realize everyone has a different type of humor and I also realize that some people don't have a sense of humor at all.

Did I say you said it was real ?

Of course everyone has a different type of humor. Not everyone is gonna laugh at everything that makes you laugh.

But to insinuate that not finding humor in a particular item equals "they don't have any sense of humor at all"... well, you're only kidding yourself.

Anyway. Before anyone starts crying about board sheriffs and such, I want to point out that I didn't say you shouldn't be allowed to post the pic, nor did I say that it didn't have any element of humor.

I just said it wasn't a "real" photo of a "real" scene, which puts some perspective on how to interpret it.

-MK

methinks that might be changing soon

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...mp;#entry597939

You didn't read the article closely enough. Note where it mentions the Lebanese Christian opposition leader, Michel Aoun. He has joined Hezbollah in the protest calling for Siniora and his cabinet to step down.

that long list of lebanon legal system above might be revised soon, was my point. sorry it was over your head.

*You* are the one that cited the article as a reference point for your theory of an imminent change in the Lebanese legal system.

My question is: how are you drawing that conclusion based on the article you posted ?

Sorry it was over your head.

[peezey 0]

But I wouldn't exactly characterize Lebanon as a "Muslim" country. It has a sizeable and powerful Christian minority, and the Lebanese legal system is based on a mixture of Ottoman law, canon law, Napoleonic code, and civil law. Lebanon has no official state religion, nor does it recognize sharia as a source of legislation.

Anyway, I stand by what I've said -- in an actual "Muslim" country (meaning one with Islamic law) there is no way a group of guys would be doing this on a public street. I say this for a reason -- in many Muslim countries they could face arrest for such behavior, and even passers-by would likely beat them.

I guess we need to start a new thread to discuss what makes a Muslim country a Muslim country, because under your standards, Morocco isn't one. Because they use a combination of French provincial law and sharia, you shold definitely inform 99% of the population they do not live in a Muslim country. Then we'd have to move on to Indonesia, Bangladesh, and even India.

[Ban Hammer 13,340]

*You* are the one that cited the article as a reference point for your theory of an imminent change in the Lebanese legal system.

My question is: how are you drawing that conclusion based on the article you posted ?

Sorry it was over your head.

oh let's see. perhaps you missed these parts........

-Hezbollah, Lebanon's most powerful Shi'ite Muslim group, and its pro-Syrian allies had called on Lebanese from across the country to take part in the protest (i'm sure they are doing that just because they are nice guys and have no plans for lebanon)

-Large numbers of security forces, backed by armored troop carriers, were deployed. Scores of soldiers, using barbed wire and metal barriers, cordoned off the complex housing the government's offices in downtown Beirut. (this sounds to me like civil war might occur - again)

and why is this going on?

-Hezbollah has been at loggerheads with Siniora's government over what it says was its failure to back the group during the July-August war with Israel.

so let's see........Hezbollah, Lebanon's most powerful Shi'ite Muslim group - Hezbollah, which is backed by Syria and Iran - what exactly do you think they will stand to gain from this deal? just replacing the govenment, or replacing the government with hezbollah members? i'd vote for the latter. and hence my remarks about the pending change.......

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

I guess we need to start a new thread to discuss what makes a Muslim country a Muslim country, because under your standards, Morocco isn't one. Because they use a combination of French provincial law and sharia, you shold definitely inform 99% of the population they do not live in a Muslim country. Then we'd have to move on to Indonesia, Bangladesh, and even India.

Where did you get the idea that "under my standards," Morocco could not be considered a "Muslim country" ??????

There are clear differences between Morocco and Lebanon -- in fact you just typed out a major one yourself: Morocco uses a combination of French provincial law and sharia. In contrast, Lebanon does not use sharia at all.

Also, Morocco does not have a sizeable minority of non-Muslims -- only about 1% of Morocco’s population is Christian, and only about .02% are Jewish. But in Lebanon, nearly 40% of the population is Christian, and by law, Christians are guaranteed a certain amount of representation in the Lebanese government.

So, due to its overwhelmingly Muslim population and its inclusion of Islamic principles in its laws, I would have to say that Morocco certainly should be considered a “Muslim country.”