Am I being discriminated against?

[hellomms 16]

I am a US Resident from Pakistan and just applied for tourist Schengen Visa through Italian Consulate in NYC. I was asked for Birth Certificate which was NOT listed on in the check list on the website. I was surprised they asked this for a mere 9 day Visa even though I have been living in US for 13 years, have already been to EU in 2011, and recently got a 10 years GC issued. Is anyone aware of this requirement (Birth Certificate) for Tourist Visa?

I asked the officer why its not listed on their website as a requirement and the response was that "it would be discriminatory"! I was told the requirements changed last year

Naturally I am upset, (now) certainly feel discriminated against and on top of it I dont even know if this is an actual requirement. Is there a way to find out? I have a BC but I have hard time believing that BC is a requirement for a Visa while being a PR of US.

[canadian_wife 1,822]

I do not think you were discriminated against. Remember, you are not entitled to a visa, they can ask you for pretty much anything and a birth certificate actually seems reasonable.

good luck

[hellomms 16]

Schengen Visa is not really controlled by Italian Embassy or Consulate. Its authority is EEAS and guidelines are the same across all countries. I could go to Netherlands, Spain, or any other Schengen treaty country and get the visa and enter in Italy. So no, they CANT just ask for anything because (1) they'd be making stuff up (2) they'd be discriminating as the officer said

Sorry, not trying to argue or but you being Canadian, wouldnt be as familiar with the visa requirements as someone like me who has gotten visa for over 15 different countries including Canada and Schengen

That said, agree I am not entitled but what prevents them from asking me my genealogy, if we go by your standard of asking anything

Edited July 17, 2013 by M + M

[del-2-5-2014 1,339]

Basically, you are a Pakistan citizen not a US Resident on their eyes.

My family were refused entry into UK because they arrived on Nigerian passport but with USGC. The explanation was that they are being processed as Nigerians and not US Citizens which of course they were not.

Like the other poster stated, they can pretty much ask for whatever they want and a BC sounds pretty reasonable to me if they suspected fraudulent travel documents.

Schengen Visa is not really controlled by Italian Embassy or Consulate. Its authority is EEAS and guidelines are the same across all countries. I could go to Netherlands, Spain, or any other Schengen treaty country and get the visa and enter in Italy. So no, they CANT just ask for anything because (1) they'd be making stuff up (2) they'd be discriminating as the officer said

Sorry, not trying to argue or but you being Canadian, wouldnt be as familiar with the visa requirements as someone like me who has gotten visa for over 15 different countries including Canada and Schengen

That said, agree I am not entitled but what prevents them from asking me my genealogy, if we go by your standard of asking anything

How do you know her travel history?

[hellomms 16]

How do you know her travel history?

She/he is from Canada as the profile says. I was referring to my own travel history and experience of getting visas from other countries. Sorry for confusion.

[del-2-5-2014 1,339]

She/he is from Canada as the profile says. I was referring to my own travel history and experience of getting visas from other countries. Sorry for confusion.

That's the thing. You are assuming that she doesn't have even more travel experience than you since she's Canadian.

Canadians do travel too you know, eh.

[canadian_wife 1,822]

That's the thing. You are assuming that she doesn't have even more travel experience than you since she's Canadian.

Canadians do travel too you know, eh.

AND we apply for visas!

[MIDUVIL 34]

I can't tell for the Schengen visa, but in France a birth certificate is necessary for a lot of forms.

I don't think that you were discriminated.

It would be surprising for me that France is a member of the Schengen zone and doesn't ask for this document. You need it to go to school, for the driver licence...everything which is government oriented.

Edited July 17, 2013 by MIDUVIL

[hellomms 16]

That's the thing. You are assuming that she doesn't have even more travel experience than you since she's Canadian.

Canadians do travel too you know, eh.

No, thats not what I am assuming

AND we apply for visas!

Yes, the difference is I can count on my hand the number of countries one needs to apply for visa as a Canadian citizen and I can also count on my hand, the number of countries one does NOT need a visa as a Pakistani

[canadian_wife 1,822]

No, thats not what I am assuming

Yes, the difference is I can count on my hand the number of countries one needs to apply for visa as a Canadian citizen and I can also count on my hand, the number of countries one does NOT need a visa as a Pakistani

Ugh, whatever

Asking for a birth certificate was not discrimination, it was a reasonable request

good luck

[hellomms 16]

I can't tell for the Schengen visa, but in France a birth certificate is necessary for a lot of forms.

I don't think that you were discriminated.

It would be surprising for me that France is a member of the Schengen zone and doesn't ask for this document. You need it to go to school, for the driver licence...everything which is government oriented.

Perhaps I wasnt discriminated against, and may be I am taking it personally. Though, in 2011 I got Schengen through French consulate, they didnt need BC that time.

[del-2-5-2014 1,339]

No, thats not what I am assuming

Yes, the difference is I can count on my hand the number of countries one needs to apply for visa as a Canadian citizen and I can also count on my hand, the number of countries one does NOT need a visa as a Pakistani

How many countries are in Africa and how many require Canadians to get a visa?

How many hands do you have?

[MedRoni 161]

The website for the Italian embassy in the US clearly states "The Consular office will evaluate the documents submitted and may request additional ones at its discretion. Furthermore, you should also be aware that submitting the required documentation does not automatically guarantee the issuance of a visa. " right under the requirements listed. I do not think you were discriminated against. (I also think the officer probably told you or meant to tell you it was discretionary, not discriminatory)Yes, your past travels may help make it easier to get a visa to some countries, but it does not guarantee you anything. Italy may not care you lives in the US so long or have been to Europe before.. they saw something with your application that just makes them want that extra check.

If you have your birth certificate then what is the big deal? Why all the anger for something they are just taking care to make sure all is well? If the trip to Italy is worth it then just supply them with what they requested and enjoy your trip.

Edited July 17, 2013 by MedRoni

[hellomms 16]

I don't mean to steer this into a negative conversation/thread and accept everyone's consensus here, but I think there is and should be a right balance. There is no hiding in what people/world's view are, of Pakistan, I am very well aware of the stigma. My point is that by holding a Pakistani passport I am inherently subjected to that stigma, and I am okay with that, but I fail to understand the value Birth Certificate adds - what precisely will it confirm or re-confirm?!

The other reason I find this request unreasonable is because generally people dont understand the circumstance of how/when the Birth Certificates were issued 3-4 decades ago in these underdeveloped countries. For example, its very common to not have the child's name on the birth certificate that is issued only under mother's name. I respect the US immigration process for incorporating these cultural difference to reduce the angst of bureaucratic processes but at the same time find it very odd that European countries are still trying to play catch-up

[aaron2020 11,651]

No one but you seems to think providing a birth certificate is discriminatory and unreasonable. It is not discriminatory and it is not unreasonable to ask for a birth certifiate.