Household size for I 864/I 864A?

[Frannyglass 10]

Hello!

I'm having trouble figuring out what household size we fall under. Here's the situation:

I am the immigrant, my wife and I live with her father, mother, and adult sister. Both my wife and sister are disabled and are dependents on their married parents tax returns (well that's what I've been told).

My wife being disabled, she doesn't have any income (only ssi) and doesn't need to file her taxes. So she completed form I-864. Both her parents agreed to fill form I-864A. When reading form I-864, it seems like household size only counts the people who will be held financially responsible for me, therefore we put 4 people.

For 4 people, the household income limit is about $29,500. Her father makes $31,000. Her mother is self imployed and would rather not fill out form I-864A (complicated to gather all her papers) if she doesn't need to.

Now, her father covers the income limit for household of 4. He doesn't cover the income limit for household of 5 (if counting his second daughter), but he is not the main sponsor (my wife is, despite no income), so my understanding is at her sister doesn't count. Going by this logic, If we only use her father's income, then doesn't it mean that the household size should only be 3 people (parents do file taxes together)?

I just want to make sure before sending everything out.

Thank you!

[Harpa Timsah 13,258]

The parents should fill out their own I-864. The sister certainly must be included, and your wife (unusually) because she is dependent on her parents.

Household count gets really screwy in this instance with I-864A. Your wife is trying to claim that she is merely combining income with her parents, but she is actually a dependent of her parents and it doesn't work. Not to mention the other dependent. Wife: I-864. One parent: I-864, other parent I-864A.

[Frannyglass 10]

I was told here (and what i understood from the instructions) that since they are from the same household, then they must fill I-864A and she must fill I-864, and that her sister doesn't count in the household size in that instance. It made complete sense but now I'm even more confused?

[Frannyglass 10]

I am guessing the key to this is whether or not the two daughters have been added as dependents on the parents' tax returns. If they have, then the father needs to fill his own I-864 and put 5 as household, his wife must fill I-864A. Does it mean the father would be the joint sponsor on my wife's I-864?

If they weren't added as dependents on the tax returns, then household would be 3 (or 4? If wife is in husband's joint tax return?) and father must fill I-864A only, am I right?

[Penguin_ie 5,997]

Because they are dependants on the tax return, the household size for the co-sponsor is 5.

If neither your wife nor the other sister were on the tax return, then it would be 3

[Harpa Timsah 13,258]

I was told here (and what i understood from the instructions) that since they are from the same household, then they must fill I-864A and she must fill I-864, and that her sister doesn't count in the household size in that instance. It made complete sense but now I'm even more confused?

Whoever told you this was wrong. One is never forced to file a I-864A; it is an option for certain circumstances, but yours doesn't really qualify, despite the fact that you all live together. it doesn't really work when a dependent is using his/her parent to file the I-864A.

And the sister must figure in the household size.

[Frannyglass 10]

Her parents are really weird and secretive and they seem to be having a hard time wi all the paperwork they need to provide. I gave them the instructions three weeks ago, and so far all I got back was the latest tax return. No w2s, no proof of employment, etc. they don't like sharing that surf with anyone. But I need them! Also for some reason they are not telling us the exact income my wife earned (on ssi) the past three years, and I need the exact amount for the letter. I know how much she earns every month and I guess I could just calculate the amount myself. The father also refuses to fill I-864 instead of I-864A...

Anyway, it actually may be much easier to ask one of my friends who offered to be joint sponsor if needed, makes well above the limit and lives on his own.

[Harpa Timsah 13,258]

Anyway, it actually may be much easier to ask one of my friends who offered to be joint sponsor if needed, makes well above the limit and lives on his own.

That sounds much better. Good luck. Your wife still needs her own properly completed I-864, even if she doesn't qualify. Why isn't she helping out with this and her parents more?

[Frannyglass 10]

I agree it'd be easier if she was communicating with her parents rather than rely on me for the paperwork. It is awkward, and the parents are very private and do not like communicating too much, so I've been leaving notes for her father to read (about what is still needed) because he leaves too early and comes home late so I rarely see him. Next day, nothing has changed, it's been three weeks, and all I got is the one tax return (2012) and the forms that aren't even ready yet. I'm getting frustrated. My wife is used to me or her parents doing all the paperwork and official stuff for her all the time (including doctor's appointments, bank stuff, etc.) so I have been getting everything ready myself. We have a strong application, just missing the proper I-864. My wife has filled her own and will write her letter explaining why she hasn't filed her tax return. We are seeing a lawyer on Monday for one consultation, before sending everything off.

It is quite strange that it took a minute for my friend (who we have only met a few times and lives in a different state) to say "yes I will sponsor you, tell me what to do!" (and he knows the obligations and requirements), while my wife's parents are so reticent about it.

[Coleman21 6]

Hi,

I have read a similar post, so I can explain why your in law is supposed to fill out I-864 but not I-864A. I-864A is used when your wife has income and your wife wants to combine someone else's income in the same residency. Since your wife does not have income, she is not "combining" income. It seems like a lot of people get confused at this, you're not the only one. So she filled out I-864 and write her income as zero. Attach explanation why she didn't have to file taxes.

Her father fills out another I-864 and he checks "I am the only joint sponsor" if you're not using more than one joint sponsor. If you do decide to use your mother in law's income, her income will be combined to your father in law's income and therefore your father in law will still be your only joint sponsor. Your mother in law also fills out I-864A.

Your sister counts as a dependent, unfortunately. Read the instructions of I-864 very carefully, and you will find it saying that anyone added on the most recent tax return will be counted as a dependent. If your father in law did not include her on his tax return for the tax year 2012, she won't be counted.

Good news is that, if your wife and/or your sister in law receive disability checks, that can be counted toward income. This one I asked directly to an immigration officer at infopass as well as reading some immigration websites.

Lastly, I am sorry you're going through a frustrated process. It was hard for me to communicate with my in laws too and when we filed application for green card, we still lived many states away from my in laws, so it was all the more difficult. It's also not comfortable to talk about money to in laws generally. My husband helped a little to talk with my in laws because they didn't understand the rule for joint sponsors and at one point they wouldn't even calculate this year's annual income! They wanted to put last year's income, which I thought was too risky because my father in law didn't even work for the same employer this year. Even now that we live together it's furstrating to talk about financial stuff. But it is good that your wife did other stuff at least. My husband didn't!! He did fill out his application and sign it, of course, but preparation for the evidence of our relationship, I did while I went to college and all that!

But anyways, don't worry, once you send everything off, it's a lot easier later. Interviews are kind of scary, and mine is coming up in a few weeks and I've been stressed out and anxious, but as long as we answer to all questions honestly we should be fine, so we should be fine..! Please wish us good luck!

If household size of 5 doesn't work for you, the last option would be to have a different sponsor, and it doesn't have to be your relative as long as he/she is a US citizen or a permanent resident. Good luck on everything!!!

[Frannyglass 10]

Thank you so much for your help, and for sharing your story. Good luck for the interview, I will be checking on you to see how it went! When is it?

Well, turns out that my father in law never looked at the notes I left him (on top of the files, where it said in cap letters: we need this, this, this, and this). We had a talk with him today and he is going to fill form I-864 with household of 5. We are lucky that the parents combined income goes over the limit barely by $1000! He is only giving us the joint tax return for 2012 with W-2s, and 1099s. I hope it's enough? On the instructions it says to only send the latest tax return and w-2 and doesn't require pay stubs or proof of employment. It says in guides that it is recommended to include them but not mandatory.

As for the disability checks, it is considered "means based benefits" which, from what I understand, cannot be counted as income. My wife wrote the letter stating the reason why she didn't file a tax return. However I have a question: what should her household size be on her I-864? 2 for me and her, or 5? She is the dependent, included in her day's I-864, but what about hers? Also do I add 1 for spouse and count 2 as total? It's kind of confusing.

We are seeing our lawyer on Monday (one and only consultation) so he can take a look at everything and hopefully we can ship it all on Tuesday! Exciting!

[Harpa Timsah 13,258]

If his 2012 tax returns is complete, then it should be okay, but it needs all schedules and forms and everything that goes with it. It is true you only need one year's tax return. On the I-864 main page on USCIS, it says that proof of current employment is mandatory, so they may RFE you for it.

Your wife's household is 2: you and she.

[Frannyglass 10]

I don't see it there (the mandatory proof of employment), maybe I'm missing it? I keep looking for it.

On the instructions all I see is "You may include evidence supporting your claim about your expected income for the current year if you believe that submitting this evidence will help you establish ability to maintain sufficient income. You are not required to submit this evidence, however, unless specifically instructed to do so by a Government official. For example, you may include a recent letter from your employer, showing your employer's address and telephone number, and indicating your annual salary. You may also provide pay stub(s) showing your income for the previous 6 months."

[Harpa Timsah 13,258]

I know what the instructions say. On the I-864 website page there is a checklist that contradicts the instructions. Both are directives from USCIS. A lot of people get an RFE for this, though you can choose to cross that bridge when you come to it if you like.

[Coleman21 6]

Thank you so much for your help, and for sharing your story. Good luck for the interview, I will be checking on you to see how it went! When is it?

Well, turns out that my father in law never looked at the notes I left him (on top of the files, where it said in cap letters: we need this, this, this, and this). We had a talk with him today and he is going to fill form I-864 with household of 5. We are lucky that the parents combined income goes over the limit barely by $1000! He is only giving us the joint tax return for 2012 with W-2s, and 1099s. I hope it's enough? On the instructions it says to only send the latest tax return and w-2 and doesn't require pay stubs or proof of employment. It says in guides that it is recommended to include them but not mandatory.

As for the disability checks, it is considered "means based benefits" which, from what I understand, cannot be counted as income. My wife wrote the letter stating the reason why she didn't file a tax return. However I have a question: what should her household size be on her I-864? 2 for me and her, or 5? She is the dependent, included in her day's I-864, but what about hers? Also do I add 1 for spouse and count 2 as total? It's kind of confusing.

We are seeing our lawyer on Monday (one and only consultation) so he can take a look at everything and hopefully we can ship it all on Tuesday! Exciting!

Our interview is August 6th. It's coming up very soon!!!

What your father in law is preparing can be enough, but at the same time, can be not enough as well. USCIS's instrucstion is not very good and the checklist says employment letter, etc. Lawyers say put an employment letter too. And if you don't include paystubs, even if you don't get RFE, they will look at it more at the interview. Someone on this website told me that she included paystubs in the first package and then her interviewer didn't even look at paystubs at the interview. At the interview you are required to bring paystubs from the past 2 months, but who knows, at the time of the interview your father in law's paychecks go down from now, so I recommend putting paystubs in your package. I was very worried about income because it was barely over the requirement as well, so we included most recent paystubs and a calculation of our estimated annual income or this year. Because this year's income is what they really look at. They don't really care about past years' income.

For the employment letter, my father in law couldn't get one, but I realized that he had got a handbook from his new employer that includes a page that states he was really employed and how much his hourly rate is, etc. his signature on it too. so i had my mother in law photo copy that page and we included that in our package.

Anyways, better include more than enough than less, because if you get RFE your green card case can get delayed. If getting those from your father in law is really super difficult, then just send what you have now and gather more by the time of the interview.

Your wife says 2 for the household size because she's not supporting her parents. She will count herself and then the primary immigrant. If you guys don't have a kid, 2 is the total. At the household counting section, some questions may overlap. Then, ignore the overlapping part, just write 0 if you already counted the same person before. But anyways, in your case, the total should be 2 anyway.

Some means tested benefits are exceptions, and disability checks are one of the exceptions.

Sorry for not responding sooner. Didn't realize you had written again till now. Have you seen the attorney by now?