GZ to get his gun back

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

Show me the case when something like this has happened. If you can do it, I'll come off the ledge.

How in the world can i prove that people never report a suspicious white guy. ?

That's just common sense.

Ok I hit google

Here is one of 1000's

http://www.fox11online.com/dpp/news/local/fox_cities/neenah-police-report-suspicious-man-approaching-kids-march-26-2013

[RGinWA 816]

See the difference here is that in a minority neighborhood following someone is grounds for an @ss kicking. It just keeps things equal and everything in order. The key being "don't follow people and be a scary **."

And in a minority neighborhood what happened to GZ was not anywhere near a true @ss kicking.

A true @ss kicking is one you wake up from and someone tells you about what happened.

This whole talk of smashing his head and him taking a beating makes people seem way too soft.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

How in the world can i prove that people never report a suspicious white guy. ?

That's just common sense.

Ok I hit google

Here is one of 1000's

http://www.fox11online.com/dpp/news/local/fox_cities/neenah-police-report-suspicious-man-approaching-kids-march-26-2013

Ok, let me bring it down a notch as to not lose my fair and balanced card:

You've seen more racism than I have due to you living through that time. I know that, but look at what you posted. A man giving candy to kids that aren't his, smells like a pedophile to me. What about the white guy walking home minding his own business? Do the cops get called on him?

You know better than me, with the crime being 90% black in your area that being black is most of the time cause enough to have the cops called on you. When I was arrested back in 1990, do you know what I was doing? Walking to the gas station to buy some soda. Never did drugs, never had a record. My crime? Walking through an apartment complex at night as a short cut. Not the inside, the outside grounds. I was beaten, thrown in a police car and detained for about 4 hours before I was released. No record or paper trail because once my mother came and got me, I got the business from her. She said, you can't make a single misstep, they could have killed me and gotten away with it.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

There's absolutely no evidence of that. Maybe there was a 3rd guy behind the grassy knoll that we don't know about. Anything is possible I suppose. You can come up with anything to make it seem however you want it to seem. Unfortunately, there's no evidence to support your wild speculation.

Yet, even though I have punched several holes in GZ story, along with quite a few people, you can't see any other option. I've said GZ could have killed TM in self defense. But you can't fathom that GZ poured a can of gasoline on a campfire and complained when he got burned. I don't think that violence is the answer, and if TM attacked him for no reason, he had a right to defend himself. But no one wants to admit that GZ lit the fuse, held it in his hand until it exploded, then said this is too much.

Edited July 18, 2013 by Su and Marvin

[slim 1,525]

How do you know GZ didn't put hands on him first? If he pushed him, and TM fought back, how could you prove that? Or is that so hard to believe?

Maybe that is what happened. I know a lot of people want to believe it. Even I, the crazy gun-nut, self defense-loving, conservative white guy don't count it out. It's completely possible.

However, there is ZERO evidence of that happening and since the only evidence available to the court was the injuries to GZ, the court was compelled to rule based on the evidence.

I had to explain this to a woman at work today. She, like most black people, felt Al Sharpton's summation of the possible events that could have maybe happened had to be considered by the court. She, like most black people, felt president Obama's heart-wrenching TV appeal to justice meant the court could trump it's blind justice policies and create evidence out of thin air that had to be considered. She, like most black people, is wrong.

I asked her what would happen if she went to buy some weed and the weed man's house got raided before she was able to complete the transaction. Would she hope the court convicts her because she got out of her car and went in to buy some weed? Or would she hope the justice system did it's job and considered the fact that there was no evidence of her committing a crime?

She, like most black people, was upset that I didn't believe the crime started the moment they got out of the car. Although, after explaining it to her in the context of another crime, she, UNlike most black people, admitted the escalation of force is where the self defense issues start. Not the car.

What's really ironic to me about this entire case is black people have a "Stop Snitching" policy and are pretty versed in courtroom drama. The typical black guy knows more about jury trials and evidence rules than a first-year college student. (Of any other color.) So you can imagine my surprise when they've asked the Attorney General to change the rules regarding evidence and championing the cause of convicting people based on public outcry instead of the facts of the case.

I don't know. I'm still scratching my head on this one. I want to say hats off though, Marvin. Like most black people, you're stuck in a room of white folks trying to explain to them why we're still sorting out our issues. Keep up the good work!

(By the way, I used to live at Scott Air Force Base and my buddies and I would sometimes go to "the white theater" over by Outback for movies and other times we'd head to "the black theater" near Olive Garden. They still doing that?)

[spookyturtle 9,466]

It should have happened, but courts are not allowed to instruct juries on how extensive their powers to render verdicts really are. Juries can nullify unreasonable laws if they decide to do so. 5 out of the 6 jurors in this case disagreed with the Florida law, yet didn't realize they could have disregarded the self defense instruction, and found Zimmerman guilty of either manslaughter or murder 2.

They must have been incredibly dense and illiterate if they didn't know that after the extrememly detailed instructions given to them by the judge. Not to mention being allowed to ask questions about the law. I don't buy it.

[Karee 4,190]

Ok, let me bring it down a notch as to not lose my fair and balanced card:

You've seen more racism than I have due to you living through that time. I know that, but look at what you posted. A man giving candy to kids that aren't his, smells like a pedophile to me. What about the white guy walking home minding his own business? Do the cops get called on him?

You know better than me, with the crime being 90% black in your area that being black is most of the time cause enough to have the cops called on you. When I was arrested back in 1990, do you know what I was doing? Walking to the gas station to buy some soda. Never did drugs, never had a record. My crime? Walking through an apartment complex at night as a short cut. Not the inside, the outside grounds. I was beaten, thrown in a police car and detained for about 4 hours before I was released. No record or paper trail because once my mother came and got me, I got the business from her. She said, you can't make a single misstep, they could have killed me and gotten away with it.

I would venture to say that because of that incident you look look at things through that lens. Maybe because of that incident and other incidents you have experienced in your life that you're incapable of seeing this TM/GZ thing the way most (white) people see it. However, that does not change the facts. And frankly, it's a little unfair on your end to claim that since you were treated unfairly by some white cops, that means that GZ racially profiled this kid and started a fight with him so he could shoot him.

Actually I'm glad you posted that story about the cops. It makes me understand a little better why black folks are freaking out about this case. It still doesn't change the FACTS about this case. But I do understand where you're coming from better now. Frankly, prior to the post above, I couldn't understand your absolute refusal to accept that this case was simply self defense.

[Karee 4,190]

Yet, even though I have punched several holes in GZ story, along with quite a few people, you can't see any other option. I've said GZ could have killed TM in self defense. But you can't fathom that GZ poured a can of gasoline on a campfire and complained when he got burned. I don't think that violence is the answer, and if TM attacked him for no reason, he had a right to defend himself. But no one wants to admit that GZ lit the fuse, held it in his hand until it exploded, then said this is too much.

If all it takes to light the fuse is being followed, then TM had some anger issues.

[Harsh_77 718]

Here's the TBT article on his conviction. Has a rough overview of the case as well. Very similar cases. Except here the perp was black and the vic was white and the perp ended up being found guilty of manslaughter. You tell me how that makes sense. I think a 69 year old in scuffle with a 41 year old military veteran may have more of a reasonable fear of great bodily harm than Zimmermann could have ever mustered. It is this particular case that left me quite confident that Zimmermann will not walk away.

http://www.tampabay.com/news/courts/criminal/jury-finds-trevor-dooley-guilty-in-manslaughter-case/1262347

BD - The cases are not even close.

Dooley was seeking immunity under SYG while in the case of FLvs GZ that was not the case.

Dooley was sentenced but he is free while he appeals, I am assuming if TM/GZ incident would have not happened chances of him walking away were very high.

[spookyturtle 9,466]

You know better than me, with the crime being 90% black in your area that being black is most of the time cause enough to have the cops called on you. When I was arrested back in 1990, do you know what I was doing? Walking to the gas station to buy some soda. Never did drugs, never had a record. My crime? Walking through an apartment complex at night as a short cut. Not the inside, the outside grounds. I was beaten, thrown in a police car and detained for about 4 hours before I was released. No record or paper trail because once my mother came and got me, I got the business from her. She said, you can't make a single misstep, they could have killed me and gotten away with it.

Wow. This is something that I can't even imagine happening. Maybe it does happen up here on occaision, but not to the extent that it does in the South.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

They must have been incredibly dense and illiterate if they didn't know that after the extrememly detailed instructions given to them by the judge. Not to mention being allowed to ask questions about the law. I don't buy it.

jury nullification: A sanctioned doctrine of trial proceedings wherein members of a jury disregard either the evidence presented or the instructions of the judge in order to reach a verdict based upon their own consciences. It espouses the concept that jurors should be the judges of both law and fact.

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/jury+nullification

I think you miss the point. The jury didn't have to follow the judge's instructions at all.

[slim 1,525]

By the way... one of the jurors was black. They were all women though and I'd argue that's why the prosecution felt they were "stacking the deck" by appealing to the delicate sensibilities of motherly types they could show pictures of the "innocent little child who was murdered."

Both the prosecution (which is none other than the DOJ themselves from what I've heard) and the defense get to select juries. Playing the "It aint fair" card (AGAIN!) just isn't going to work in this situation.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

Maybe that is what happened. I know a lot of people want to believe it. Even I, the crazy gun-nut, self defense-loving, conservative white guy don't count it out. It's completely possible.

However, there is ZERO evidence of that happening and since the only evidence available to the court was the injuries to GZ, the court was compelled to rule based on the evidence.

I had to explain this to a woman at work today. She, like most black people, felt Al Sharpton's summation of the possible events that could have maybe happened had to be considered by the court. She, like most black people, felt president Obama's heart-wrenching TV appeal to justice meant the court could trump it's blind justice policies and create evidence out of thin air that had to be considered. She, like most black people, is wrong.

I asked her what would happen if she went to buy some weed and the weed man's house got raided before she was able to complete the transaction. Would she hope the court convicts her because she got out of her car and went in to buy some weed? Or would she hope the justice system did it's job and considered the fact that there was no evidence of her committing a crime?

She, like most black people, was upset that I didn't believe the crime started the moment they got out of the car. Although, after explaining it to her in the context of another crime, she, UNlike most black people, admitted the escalation of force is where the self defense issues start. Not the car.

What's really ironic to me about this entire case is black people have a "Stop Snitching" policy and are pretty versed in courtroom drama. The typical black guy knows more about jury trials and evidence rules than a first-year college student. (Of any other color.) So you can imagine my surprise when they've asked the Attorney General to change the rules regarding evidence and championing the cause of convicting people based on public outcry instead of the facts of the case.

I don't know. I'm still scratching my head on this one. I want to say hats off though, Marvin. Like most black people, you're stuck in a room of white folks trying to explain to them why we're still sorting out our issues. Keep up the good work!

(By the way, I used to live at Scott Air Force Base and my buddies and I would sometimes go to "the white theater" over by Outback for movies and other times we'd head to "the black theater" near Olive Garden. They still doing that?)

Like I said before, nothing he did was against the law, but it wasn't common sense.

My wife and I go to the theatre in Ofallon, the one by Outback isn't there anymore. The dollar theatre you speak of is still used used by black folks. I like my theatre to have present movies, not the outdated ones.

[Harsh_77 718]

Ok, let me bring it down a notch as to not lose my fair and balanced card:

You've seen more racism than I have due to you living through that time. I know that, but look at what you posted. A man giving candy to kids that aren't his, smells like a pedophile to me. What about the white guy walking home minding his own business? Do the cops get called on him?

You know better than me, with the crime being 90% black in your area that being black is most of the time cause enough to have the cops called on you. When I was arrested back in 1990, do you know what I was doing? Walking to the gas station to buy some soda. Never did drugs, never had a record. My crime? Walking through an apartment complex at night as a short cut. Not the inside, the outside grounds. I was beaten, thrown in a police car and detained for about 4 hours before I was released. No record or paper trail because once my mother came and got me, I got the business from her. She said, you can't make a single misstep, they could have killed me and gotten away with it.

You case is something that should have never happened, do you realize why conservatives don't want the big govt or govt acting like big brother where they can do whatever they want to.

That is exactly what you call gun nutter is fighting to preserve the right of the citizens but most dems and liberals thing ppl who want to preserve their right to bear arms than they are crazy.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

By the way... one of the jurors was black. They were all women though and I'd argue that's why the prosecution felt they were "stacking the deck" by appealing to the delicate sensibilities of motherly types they could show pictures of the "innocent little child who was murdered."

Both the prosecution (which is none other than the DOJ themselves from what I've heard) and the defense get to select juries. Playing the "It aint fair" card (AGAIN!) just isn't going to work in this situation.

She wasn't black she was hispanic.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/21/us/6-female-jurors-are-selected-for-zimmerman-trial.html?_r=0

The jurors, none of them black, include a Hispanic woman with eight children, an animal rescuer who once had a concealed-weapons permit, and a woman who said she had used Mr. Martin’s death as a cautionary example for her two adolescent children. Of the four alternates chosen for the case, two were men, and all were white. Nearly all of the jurors have children.