Trayvon Martin Rally in NYC

[Penny Lane 8,159]

It's the same argument we have here. By disregarding the following and chasing part of it, not to mention he didn't take the stand, it was easy to justify him killing TM

They disregarded it because it wasn't illegal. Stupid, and not what a reasonable person would have done, but doesn't justify an attack. If that's what happened.

[Teddy B 17,252]

Yes. It was easier to draw that picture than the aggressor.

Sounds like the prosecution didn't have a very strong case then?

They disregarded it because it wasn't illegal. Stupid, and not what a reasonable person would have done, but doesn't justify an attack. If that's what happened.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

The part at the end when that McJerk O'Mara pointed out to the jurors a picture of Trayvon with his "musculature" showing really made me cringe. "Scary as hell looking black man, you know you'd have suspected him too" was the unmistakable subtext.

And that's the whole point. By the very nature of being black he had to be trouble.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

They disregarded it because it wasn't illegal. Stupid, and not what a reasonable person would have done, but doesn't justify an attack. If that's what happened.

Sadly I agree with you and Teddy. The case was weak at best. But I know if the color wad reversed it would have gone down different. Or if he was a woman.

[Ban Hammer 13,346]

The "following and chasing part of it" was not brought up during the trial?

it was. see http://reason.com/blog/2013/06/24/police-dispatcher-testifies-that-george

the most interesting part of that, which ends the "he was told not to follow him" chant by some, is

Noffke testified that, because of liability concerns, police dispatchers are trained to make suggestions to callers rather than issue commands.

[Teddy B 17,252]

it was. see http://reason.com/blog/2013/06/24/police-dispatcher-testifies-that-george

the most interesting part of that, which ends the "he was told not to follow him" chant by some, is

Right, my point is, that it wasn't disregarded, it just wasn't the smoking gun that some people thought it was.

I went into this case thinking manslaughter was a slam dunk based on everything we knew up to that point. After watching/listening to a good amount of the first week of the trial on my computer, I couldn't believe just how week the prosecution's case really was. It never should have been taken to trial imo.

[mota bhai 2,675]

And that's the whole point. By the very nature of being black he had to be trouble.

My wife and I were discussing this case and she called me out on my hypocrisy. She pointed out to me that I also view unfamiliar young black men in my neighborhood with suspicion. Many years ago, we had an issue with a group of young black men who decided they wanted to use the parking lot of our complex to hang out. They were all friends of one resident so technically not trespassing. They were a nuisance but not criminal in any serious way. They were loud, one of them enjoyed taking his shirt off at cars passing by and yell profanities at them. They once started a fight closer to the building I live in, one of my neighbors stepped outside to ask and they told him to back inside. The fight ended quickly, all that was left were shattered shirt pieces which were washed away by the rain a few hours later. I ended up calling the cops on them the third consecutive weekend they used our parking lot to hang out in. I told them I smelled marijuana and I saw empty beer bottles and I'm certain they're all underage. That brought the cops in fast. Like fast, fast. I was surprised at how fast. They showed up with a megaphone, asked the kids to disperse, they all got back into their cars and left. It was over in minutes. They never came back.

Edited July 15, 2013 by amriki bhai

[Karee 4,190]

As I pointed out in another thread, I think GZ was/is innocent. However, TM's family lawyer brought up an interesting point. He said what if GZ was black and TM was white? From what I see of our criminal justice system, under that scenario I think a black GZ would have been convicted. Unfairly convicted at that.

I'll go ahead and restate that is just my opinion before Gary rolls in here with one of his dumba$$ flying frog analogies.

[decocker 7,198]

My wife and I were discussing this case and she called me out on my hypocrisy. She pointed out to me that I also view unfamiliar young black men in my neighborhood with suspicion. Many years ago, we had an issue with a group of young black men who decided they wanted to use the parking lot of our complex to hang out. They were all friends of one resident so technically not trespassing. They were a nuisance but not criminal in any serious way. They were loud, one of them enjoyed taking his shirt off at cars passing by and yell profanities at them. They once started a fight closer to the building I live in, one of my neighbors stepped outside to ask and they told him to back inside. The fight ended quickly, all that was left were shattered shirt pieces which were washed away by the rain a few hours later. I ended up calling the cops on them the third consecutive weekend they used our parking lot to hang out in. I told them I smelled marijuana and I saw empty beer bottles and I'm certain they're all underage. That brought the cops in fast. Like fast, fast. I was surprised at how fast. They showed up with a megaphone, asked the kids to disperse, they all got back into their cars and left. It was over in minutes. They never came back.

but that was an entire group. over a period of time. i don't really see any similarities..

As I pointed out in another thread, I think GZ was/is innocent. However, TM's family lawyer brought up an interesting point. He said what if GZ was black and TM was white? From what I see of our criminal justice system, under that scenario I think a black GZ would have been convicted. Unfairly convicted at that.

black people are treated differently by our justice system. this isn't new.

similarly - black victims are treated differently by our justice system..among other institutions.

Edited July 15, 2013 by val erie

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

As I pointed out in another thread, I think GZ was/is innocent. However, TM's family lawyer brought up an interesting point. He said what if GZ was black and TM was white? From what I see of our criminal justice system, under that scenario I think a black GZ would have been convicted. Unfairly convicted at that.

I'll go ahead and restate that is just my opinion before Gary rolls in here with one of his dumba$$ flying frog analogies.

They would have thrown him under the bus. Because white people aren't suspicious, ever.

[mota bhai 2,675]

but that was an entire group. over a period of time. i don't really see any similarities..

I didn't make the point. My point is that since then, I do tend to view even solitary black men who I don't recognize as part of neighborhood as suspicious. I don't follow them or kill them, but that's why Zim is in the news and I'm safely behind my keyboard.

I should point out that my neighborhood is about a third black. And I can usually tell when a black man is from here or when he's just taking a shortcut through.

[Penny Lane 8,159]

As I pointed out in another thread, I think GZ was/is innocent. However, TM's family lawyer brought up an interesting point. He said what if GZ was black and TM was white? From what I see of our criminal justice system, under that scenario I think a black GZ would have been convicted. Unfairly convicted at that.

I'll go ahead and restate that is just my opinion before Gary rolls in here with one of his dumba$$ flying frog analogies.

You are probably right, sadly.

And he likely would have been arrested right away.

Edited July 15, 2013 by Penny Lane

[Karee 4,190]

They would have thrown him under the bus. Because white people aren't suspicious, ever.

Suspicion has nothing to do with it. TM beat the hell out of him for no reason. If someone is following you it doesn't give anyone the right to start pounding on them. Sorry. I know you'll never get that.

[GandD 5,966]

My wife and I were discussing this case and she called me out on my hypocrisy. She pointed out to me that I also view unfamiliar young black men in my neighborhood with suspicion. Many years ago, we had an issue with a group of young black men who decided they wanted to use the parking lot of our complex to hang out. They were all friends of one resident so technically not trespassing. They were a nuisance but not criminal in any serious way. They were loud, one of them enjoyed taking his shirt off at cars passing by and yell profanities at them. They once started a fight closer to the building I live in, one of my neighbors stepped outside to ask and they told him to back inside. The fight ended quickly, all that was left were shattered shirt pieces which were washed away by the rain a few hours later. I ended up calling the cops on them the third consecutive weekend they used our parking lot to hang out in. I told them I smelled marijuana and I saw empty beer bottles and I'm certain they're all underage. That brought the cops in fast. Like fast, fast. I was surprised at how fast. They showed up with a megaphone, asked the kids to disperse, they all got back into their cars and left. It was over in minutes. They never came back.

Similar situations have happened to me and people i know. It tends to make me a bit nervous around large groups of young black kids. I have a feeling that their's a lot of underlying anger towards white people and therefore me so I just tend to steer clear. But really, its large groups of kids in general I suppose. Teenagers of any color can be aggressive and that only gets worse when they're bolstered by numbers.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

Suspicion has nothing to do with it. TM beat the hell out of him for no reason. If someone is following you it doesn't give anyone the right to start pounding on them. Sorry. I know you'll never get that.[/

Just like you'll never know what GZ did to get that beat ing.