Trayvon Martin's last photo - Graphic

[Karee 4,190]

that's why i said, in my mind.. that's how it should be.

You know I go back and forth on that. One sure way to turn a young person in to a career criminal, is to lock them up with other criminals. So looking at it that way, your basically condemning a young person to life of crime when you take the "lock them up" attitude. It's pretty short sighted, because that person is going to get out of jail at some point, and hit the streets with all those cool new tricks they learned while locked up. On the other hand there is a need for public safety. Someone that is locked up is not a threat to public safety.

There is no rehabilitation component to the prison system in this country any longer, so that excuse for locking people up is bull$hit.

[spookyturtle 9,465]

what would have given gz the right to ask for an id? i would feel more comfortable knowing that the law would on my son's side if he was ever targeted in such a manner. truth is, tm wasn't doing anything to warrant having the cops called on him in the first place.

How was GZ supposed to know TM's age?

[RGinWA 816]

Yep. If TM used some common sense, he'd probably still be here, and we'd be talking about how jacked up Obama is. Like I said, GZ should have stayed in his car. Still getting out his car and following the guy doesn't warrant an a$$ kicking. Not in my mind anyway.

One is 17 and one is an adult...I guess that doesn't matter either. Seventeen use to be a minor...well not if you're black and tall I guess.

You think that was really an ####### kicking...really? No cuts on the face or side of the head, no swollen blows on the head that were noticeable? How hard were those 25 punches? Two small cuts on the back of the head that he probably got falling on his @ss.

I've seen far worse just falling down. My son fell at school. He split his face down to the nose bone and got 7 stitches across the bridge of his nose...that's worse than any one of GZ's injuries. He was 8 and nobody thought it was life threatening, not even the emergency room. He got a beating? Oh please...

Maybe a child would think that was a beating, but not a grown @ss man.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

And you keep talking this pure speculation that GZ attacked TM as gospel. Therefore, who attacked who is null and void. Now we get to the basics, TM had a superior position on GZ, bashing his head and hitting him in the head a minimum of a few times. No speculation there.

No, I don't. I afford both parties the presumption of innocence on who started the scuffle. Funny too how you accuse me of speculating while speculating quite spectacularly yourself. You're buying into this fantastic notion that Zimmermann had his head "bashed into the concrete". Only there's no physical evidence to support that. And there is precisely one blow to Zimmermann's head that we know occurred - that to his nose. The supposed "pounding", on the other hand, also failed to leave any physical evidence whatsoever. So that's speculation.

So GZ should have carded TM? Do you think TM would have handed over his ID?

Zimmermann knew that Martin was a kid. He described him as such to the non-emergency operator. Doesn't seem he needed to see an ID to make that determination.

How was GZ supposed to know TM's age?

He described him as a "teen" and a "kid" to the non-emergency operator. In Zimmermann's eyes, Martin was a kid.

[Karee 4,190]

One is 17 and one is an adult...I guess that doesn't matter either. Seventeen use to be a minor...well not if you're black and tall I guess.

You think that was really an ####### kicking...really? No cuts on the face or side of the head, no swollen blows on the head that were noticeable? How hard were those 25 punches? Two small cuts on the back of the head that he probably got falling on his @ss.

I've seen far worse just falling down. My son fell at school. He split his face down to the nose bone and got 7 stitches across the bridge of his nose...that's worse than any one of GZ's injuries. He was 8 and nobody thought it was life threatening, not even the emergency room. He got a beating? Oh please...

Maybe a child would think that was a beating, but not a grown @ss man.

Until you can admit that TM wasn't some "innocent child" and has some responsibility in all this, you'll never see it any other way than what you do now. Hypothetically, If TM committed a serious crime , you can bet your a$$ the state of Florida would try him as an adult.

Edited July 13, 2013 by Karee

[decocker 7,198]

You know I go back and forth on that. One sure way to turn a young person in to a career criminal, is to lock them up with other criminals. So looking at it that way, your basically condemning a young person to life of crime when you take the "lock them up" attitude. It's pretty short sighted, because that person is going to get out of jail at some point, and hit the streets with all those cool new tricks they learned while locked up. On the other hand there is a need for public safety. Someone that is locked up is not a threat to public safety.

There is no rehabilitation component to the prison system in this country any longer, so that excuse for locking people up is bull$hit.

and that's why it's particularly scary to have a kid in this sort of environment. kids do dumb stuff. teenagers do even dumber stuff.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Hypothetically, If TM committed a serious crime , you can bet your a$$ the state of Florida would try him as an adult.

This is true. But he hasn't committed any serious crime thus it is a moot point.

Until you can admit that TM wasn't some "innocent child" and has some responsibility in all this, you'll never see it any other way than what you do now.

So Zimmermann is to be presumed innocent while Martin is to be presumed guilty. That makes sense.

[spookyturtle 9,465]

No, I don't. I afford both parties the presumption of innocence on who started the scuffle. Funny too how you accuse me of speculating while speculating quite spectacularly yourself. You're buying into this fantastic notion that Zimmermann had his head "bashed into the concrete". Only there's no physical evidence to support that. And there is precisely one blow to Zimmermann's head that we know occurred - that to his nose. The supposed "pounding", on the other hand, also failed to leave any physical evidence whatsoever. So that's speculation.

Let someone bash your head on the concrete once and punch you in the face 3 times. Maybe you won't even bleed, but I'll bet you see stars. You don't afford both parties innocence at all. Zimmerman had injuries, you just discount them because it interferes with the way you want the incident to be in TM's favor. You sound like the GZ supporters that you criticize on a daily for being so extreme, only you're on the other side. A fanatic is a fanatic, no matter what they are fanatical about.

[decocker 7,198]

How was GZ supposed to know TM's age?

why did he need to know tm's age?

Edited July 13, 2013 by val erie

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Until you can admit that TM wasn't some "innocent child" and has some responsibility in all this, you'll never see it any other way than what you do now. Hypothetically, If TM committed a serious crime , you can bet your a$$ the state of Florida would try him as an adult.

That night, everything points to TM just walking home from the store. You got nothing. If GZ had stayed in the car and the cops made it to the scene, they would have come to the same conclusion, TM would be alive, and GZ wouldn't be sweating out the verdict, with a strong possibility of spending 10-20 years minimum in prison for the use of a firearm in the commission of a felony,

[Karee 4,190]

So Zimmermann is to be presumed innocent while Martin is to be presumed guilty. That makes sense.

I thought the presumption of innocence was for people charged with a crime? As far as I can tell TM wasn't charged with anything. I'm no law expert, but I don't think you can charge dead people with a crime.. Maybe you can.

[RGinWA 816]

Until you can admit that TM wasn't some "innocent child" and has some responsibility in all this, you'll never see it any other way than what you do now. Hypothetically, If TM committed a serious crime , you can bet your a$$ the state of Florida would try him as an adult.

Wow...but shooting the same kid doesn't warrant a full trial? Why is that?

In your own argument is why GZ is being tried. It's a homicide right? No, lets take his word for it...next!

What if? Are you serious?

I'm sure they would have tried him as an adult, if he really committed a crime besides looking suspicious.

Your absurdity is showing.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

and that's why it's particularly scary to have a kid in this sort of environment. kids do dumb stuff. teenagers do even dumber stuff.

I know I did dumb stuff as a kid and yes, dumber stuff as a teen. Lots of it. And yet nobody ever even thought of shooting me. And because nobody did, I had a chance to turn into a productive person, become a father and husband, raise a child and support my family and community.

I thought the presumption of innocence was for people charged with a crime? As far as I can tell TM wasn't charged with anything. I'm no law expert, but I don't think you can charge dead people with a crime.. Maybe you can.

I thought victims of a crime are presumed innocent as well.

[spookyturtle 9,465]

why did he need to know tm's age?

So he'd know he was a minor and could cut him some slack like you said in an earlier post. Minors shouldn't be judged as adults.

[spookyturtle 9,465]

Damn double posting again.

Edited July 13, 2013 by spookyturtle