Who do you think is VJ's biggest GZ supporter?

[spookyturtle 9,465]

The legal beagle types are saying lesser charges are always included as a matter of course.

Thank you. I didn't know that.

[B_J 2,752]

The defense did a terrible job in pretty much all of the arguments that were had over procedural and evidence matters. How many times did West really upset the judge just over the last couple of days? He objected to the judge asking questions which the judge is clearly entitled to ask. She had to tell him three times that his objection is overruled. It was hilarious. But it's not particularly smart to pi$$ off the judge presiding over the case that you want to win.

I thought it was weird that the judge was asking before the defense had finished with their other witnesses. There were times that the defense had good points but once the judge made up her mind, they needed to let it go. Once the judge hates you it will be pretty difficult to get many other decisions to go your way. Judges are human too.

[spookyturtle 9,465]

I thought it was weird that the judge was asking before the defense had finished with their other witnesses. There were times that the defense had good points but once the judge made up her mind, they needed to let it go. Once the judge hates you it will be pretty difficult to get many other decisions to go your way. Judges are human too.

And biased.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

I thought it was weird that the judge was asking before the defense had finished with their other witnesses. There were times that the defense had good points but once the judge made up her mind, they needed to let it go. Once the judge hates you it will be pretty difficult to get many other decisions to go your way. Judges are human too.

Right. And as a trial lawyer you should know better than to pull the kind of ####### that West pulled before this judge. You could tell that O'Mara sometimes tried to shut West up.

[RGinWA 816]

The defense did a terrible job in pretty much all of the arguments that were had over procedural and evidence matters. How many times did West really upset the judge just over the last couple of days? He objected to the judge asking questions which the judge is clearly entitled to ask. She had to tell him three times that his objection is overruled. It was hilarious. But it's not particularly smart to pi$$ off the judge presiding over the case that you want to win.

I believe they are already angling for the appeal based on many of the citing's they've used and reminding the judge how she could ensure the ruling would be "appeal proof" if she just sided with their arguments. Which she's only sided with one, the child abuse charge 3rd degree murder ruling. Any attorney would do that.

West has lost his $h!t two days this week now. He's worn out, any person would be. I think he's a great defense attorney, both of them are. West is a little too slow for trial for my taste, but he's detailed.

No matter if he's acquitted or he's found guilty he's gotten a fair trial. Nobody should feel he got railroaded.

That is unless they spend 10 minutes deliberating then it will appear biased no matter what they rule. Because they case is fairly complex in many ways.

[spookyturtle 9,465]

Exactly, they simply have mental problems. They are not bad people. They are not trash. They are not "hyenas". They're sick people who did bad things.

TM did far less "bad things" ... dude never killed anybody. And yet his past is still being dissected and scrutinized here on a daily basis. I'm not saying his past is irrelevant, I'm saying he's getting a harsher treatment here than Holmes or Lanza did.

If you honestly don't see a difference in the reactions that the stories got here, then I can't help you.

But threads never popped up here about what horrible kids Lanza and Holmes were.

Consider the sources of those comments here on VJ. 'Nuff said.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

For sure, personal circumstances regulate all individual points of view and I have no illusions that mine are the end all be all. But, I try to be objective and statements like his make be wince. I only said something to him because I think he's pretty rational and I don't like it when he slips (from my perspective) towards an extreme. I wouldn't waste my breath on the members of the TM hate trust.

Sorry for the late response, my mother is on base so I had to take her around.

I normally don't type this type of rhetoric, as to avoid being an angry black man. And Val Eri, you know I love me some left I just try to balance logic with compassion. But being a black man and watching TM being drug through the mud, all the while he's the victim makes it a bit much for me.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

For sure, personal circumstances regulate all individual points of view and I have no illusions that mine are the end all be all. But, I try to be objective and statements like his make be wince. I only said something to him because I think he's pretty rational and I don't like it when he slips (from my perspective) towards an extreme. I wouldn't waste my breath on the members of the TM hate trust.

Sorry for responding so late, my mother is on base so I had to show her around.

For the most part logic and reason guide my actions and words, but I am not blind to the way myself and other minorities are treated. You wouldn't see it as much from your perspective, and it's not your fault. Just like Val Eri, Penny and the rest of the lib brigade know when I say these things, they know where I'm coming from. I hate racism from anyone, white or black, or even green. Just like most folks on here that say when they see a person of color in a high position, they start thinking is this affirmative action, we do the same thing when we are stopped by police, when we are checked at some store.

The reason this case gets to so many black people is because we know the rules are not the same for us as it is for you. No matter how far we come or what we achieve, it will always come down to skin color, not individual merits. If TM was a saint and he had a cousin 5 times removed that smoked weed, that would be used against him, and Penny and Val are right, Adam and James have had it way better that TM, what's worse is he's the victim, yet by most accounts here and IRL he was more dangerous that Adam and James put together, at least they were human.

I try to keep my anger in check when I read the comments about TM or black folks in general since I know they mean all of us when they say it, sometimes it slips. But understand, we are the only ones that are suspicious by the very nature of our being black, we are the only ones who are arrested for a dehumanizing stare, we are the only ones who are shot 7 times, handcuffed and refused medical attention because after being shot 7 times we are still "combative".

[one...two...tree 2,762]

We didn't know there would be an option for manslaughter until this morning. He was tried for second degree murder and the prosecution had no chance of winning that one. Now you can sit tight and hope it's manslaughter so you can come back and tell us how you were right all along.

I explained at great lengths to you about wiggle room with an imperfect self-defense, which would get him Manslaughter. You basically told me I was nuts, insisting that the jurors must follow instructions of beyond reasonable doubt. I stated that all they need convincing of is that either GZ's fear was unreasonable or his reaction to that fear was appropriate. I hold to what I stated before, his call to the police is the clincher for conviction. That will be what the jurors say sealed the deal for them.

[spookyturtle 9,465]

I explained at great lengths to you about wiggle room with an imperfect self-defense, which would get him Manslaughter. You basically told me I was nuts, insisting that the jurors must follow instructions of beyond reasonable doubt. I stated that all they need convincing of is that either GZ's fear was unreasonable or his reaction to that fear was appropriate. I hold to what I stated before, his call to the police is the clincher for conviction. That will be what the jurors say sealed the deal for them.

You explained at great length your bias and how you judged someone guilty before the trial started and ignored any questions or points that I brought up that you didn't want to answer because they didn't fit into your viewpoint. There was no reasoning with you, MBD and a few others. Hopefully the jury went into this case without a preconceived verdict and will base their decision on the law and the evidence presented. Just like they did with OJ and Casey Anthony.

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

Same with nuts who say he was hunted down and killed because he was black.

exactly.. and also trying to put words in or mouths. Was TM what is my understanding of what a Thug is from listing to popular culture.. Yes. I bet even TM would be keen to the idea, people considered him a thug. Thug is a term some of us borrowed from popular black culture, not some slur we invented.

Do I think he needed to die. Of course not. That part is a tragedy. Somehow we can't describe Saint Skittles for what he was without extremist claiming we wanted him dead for being black or the absurd low IQ stupidity of saying things like "we are dancing on his grave" TM was a troubled teen, who had been in trouble for violence, drug use, and vandalism. For anyone to suggest we wanted him dead, because we did not think he was a fine upstanding member of society is vicious, racist and shows a narrow minded look at the world.

[Penny Lane 8,159]

Nobody takes you seriously as soon as you start the Saint Skittles bullsh*t.

Nobody here thinks he's a saint.

Some people here DO think he's trash.

Edited July 11, 2013 by Penny Lane

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

Nobody takes you seriously as soon as you start the Saint Skittles bullsh*t.

Nobody here thinks he's a saint.

Some people here DO think he's trash.

Sorry I forget words like Saint Skittles and ** are off limits.

RWNJ GUN NUT F***K Tard, Racist scum bag, dancing on grave.

You and your bad of merry left wing fairy dust junkies are cool with that right ?

P.S. I don't think he is trash. I don't think any human is a complete waste. I do think his life was heading in a bad direction and he made some choices that got him killed.

Edited July 11, 2013 by The Nature Boy

[Penny Lane 8,159]

Sorry I forget words like Saint Skittles and ** are off limits.

RWNJ GUN NUT F***K Tard, Racist scum bag, dancing on grave.

You and your bad of merry left wing fairy dust junkies are cool with that right ?

I've never said any of the above and I agreed that they were stupid sensationalist statements. You have a short memory.

I didn't say it was off limits, I said nobody takes you seriously when you do it. Because it's inaccurate.

But since you say it on a daily basis, surely there's a reason. Who here are you referring to that thinks he's a saint?

[SMOKE 1,426]

Consider the sources of those comments here on VJ. 'Nuff said.

also consider the GUNS did the killing. remember