Zimmerman Trial Live Feed - Day Eight

[Harsh_77 718]

Well, they can't catch you lying if you admit to it before being questioned. Plus, her lying on the stand was not proven by defense.

She lost her credibility as a star witness.

Her changing of stories, her tantram in the court doee, her not knowing what is on the letter she sent does not make her any more credible.

[RGinWA 816]

Apparently, to some people, if you thought this case deserved a trial and you thought maybe, just maybe, GZ isn't a totally innocent party in this situation ... then that means, if he's found innocent, you will lose your mind. And you'd rather have him locked up in jail for something he didn't do.

It's very weird, but that seems to be the popular opinion.

If he is innocent, he absolutely should walk free. Can anyone show me anyone here who has said otherwise?

Yes I get that.

I would also not like people all over the US getting punched and then pulling their 9mm and shooting someone.

It sets a horrible precedent and I can see people applying this formula for their own reasons. That's why it needed a trial. Killing shouldn't be so automatic. Mainly because it's permanent and leaves one witness usually.

[Harsh_77 718]

Yes I get that.

I would also not like people all over the US getting punched and then pulling their 9mm and shooting someone.

It sets a horrible precedent and I can see people applying this formula for their own reasons. That's why it needed a trial. Killing shouldn't be so automatic. Mainly because it's permanent and leaves one witness usually.

Maybe it will set a precedent, don't puch anyone.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

You are having a problem with the concept of reasonable doubt.

Nothing presented now is going to erase reasonable doubt.

You are having a problem with the applicable concept of an affirmative defense. All that needs to be accomplished for a manslaughter conviction is for the jury to believe, based on the preponderance of the evidence, that George Zimmermann could not have been in fear of his life or grave bodily harm by reasonable standards. I don't see how there could be a murder 2 conviction - that was a long shot all along. But for Zimmermann to walk free, the defense has to mount a lot more than reasonable doubt.

[RGinWA 816]

She lost her credibility as a star witness.

Her changing of stories, her tantram in the court doee, her not knowing what is on the letter she sent does not make her any more credible.

To you she has...but if GZ is caught lying will you apply the same formula? I hope so...

The jury may see her for what she was, consistent on the stand yet combative, she's not the first combative witness in court...Not in this case, but its common.

Maybe it will set a precedent, don't puch anyone.

If minorities start using it you'll see the law changed.

[Harsh_77 718]

To you she has...but if GZ is caught lying will you apply the same formula? I hope so...

The jury may see her for what she was, consistent on the stand yet combative, she's not the first combative witness in court...Not in this case, but its common.

If jury sees her story is changing or she was just making up the things, than her testimony goes out of window.

She was their stongest witness as she was on phone in the last moment.

If minorities start using it you'll see the law changed.

Does not matter minority or majority... don't throw punches.

[Penny Lane 8,159]

If you punch someone in the face, prepare to be killed.

[RGinWA 816]

If jury sees her story is changing or she was just making up the things, than her testimony goes out of window.

She was their stongest witness as she was on phone in the last moment.

Does not matter minority or majority... don't throw punches.

And who decides who threw a punch or not...the survivor?

There are thousands of people in prison now who just got in a fist fight and killed someone and they were still convicted no matter who threw the punch first. That's one reason why they have manslaughter as a charge.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Yeah, I'm confused about how any of this stuff is relevant at this point myself.

Zimmermann is lying. That has got to be relevant since his hopes to be acquitted rest largely on the jury accepting his account of what transpired as being true. Is a jury more or less likely to believe a defendant that has demonstrably been less than truthful?

It seems that at this point it is pretty much a certainty that TM was on top and GZ was on bottom before the shooting. And because of that it pretty much has to be GZ screeming for help, and it seems like that can be proved because during one of the 911 calls you can hear the screaming so if they just match the time stamp of that call to when Jonathan Good called they can sort of say, okay, 20 seconds before he called, what did he see? And the screaming sure does sound like someone is in fear for his life, so this is done, isn't it?

Alternate scenario is Martin on top of Zimmermann, Zimmermann holding Martin down by his shirt with his firearm pointed at the kid telling him that "you're gonna die tonight, motherfcuker". That would make a kid squeal in the manner in which the available audio displays and make the person on the working end of that firearm trying wildly to get away. That would easily look like the "pounding" that one witness described that failed to leave any of the wounds that would be expected on the pounded. It would also explain how Zimmermann had no defensive wounds. And finally it would explain how the gun was fired while touching the fabric of the victim's shirt while being several inches away from the victim's body. Dragging on a shirt to hold the kid down and preventing that "arsehole from getting away" would do that trick, wouldn't it?

Now before everyone starts falling all over themselves, let me state this for the record: I am not suggesting that this is what happened. All I am saying here is that there are many scenarios conceivable that would produce the testimony and the physical evidence that is on the table yet leave Zimmermann guilty of murder in the second degree. And there are certainly scenarios conceivable that would have him acquitted of murder 2 and yet convicted of manslaughter.

Edited July 3, 2013 by Mr. Big Dog

[Harsh_77 718]

If you punch someone in the face, prepare to be killed.

Whats your expectation?

[Penny Lane 8,159]

Whats your expectation?

To be killed.

[Harsh_77 718]

There are thousands of people in prison now who just got in a fist fight and killed someone and they were still convicted no matter who threw the punch first. That's one reason why they have manslaughter as a charge.

Are you saying one should not self defend at all, coz there are chances attacker might die in self defense.

[spookyturtle 9,465]

I see.

So nothing should be surprising or shocking should it?

[Penny Lane 8,159]

Are you saying one should not self defend at all, coz there are chances attacker might die in self defense.

Nobody is saying that.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

To be killed.

That's the new suicide method for those that lack the balls to off themselves. They just go and punch someone.