Egypt. Again. What's next?

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

So it seems that the people of Egypt had it with the Muslim Brotherhood. So it seems the Egyptian military has set an ultimatum for Mursi. What's next for Egypt? Predictions? Insights? Interesting development. Encouraging seeing that Egyptians want freedom and opportunity more than anything. Or is that not reading what's happening there correctly?

[Karee 4,191]

So it seems that the people of Egypt had it with the Muslim Brotherhood. So it seems the Egyptian military has set an ultimatum for Mursi. What's next for Egypt? Predictions? Insights? Interesting development. Encouraging seeing that Egyptians want freedom and opportunity more than anything. Or is that not reading what's happening there correctly?

Military coup and 30 more years of a military suppoerted dictatorship.

Edited July 2, 2013 by Karee

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Military coup and 30 more years of a military suppoerted dictatorship.

Well, the military effectively ousted and took over from Mubarak. And then they paved the way for elections which brought this current circus to power. Sufficient buyer's remorse out there as it seems. You think the military will hold on to power this time around? I don't see that happening.

[Pooky 3,834]

So it seems that the people of Egypt had it with the Muslim Brotherhood. So it seems the Egyptian military has set an ultimatum for Mursi. What's next for Egypt? Predictions? Insights? Interesting development. Encouraging seeing that Egyptians want freedom and opportunity more than anything. Or is that not reading what's happening there correctly?

It seems that the Egyptian people want democracy and feel that the Muslim Brotherhood betrayed that desire last time around.

Second chances are a precious commodity. Let's see if the Muslim Brotherhood let the Egyptian people have one.

Let's see what the Egyptian army allow anyone to do, this time around. With most of the old guard gone since Mubarak was forced out, who knows what they will do?

[Karee 4,191]

Well, the military effectively ousted and took over from Mubarak. And then they paved the way for elections which brought this current circus to power. Sufficient buyer's remorse out there as it seems. You think the military will hold on to power this time around? I don't see that happening.

One would think military coups are a bad thing. I experienced a military coup while living in Thailand. I thought it was good thing then, and I still think it was a good thing considering the circumstances at the time. In that case the military called elections within about 9 months I think it was. I know it sounds counter-intuitive, but sometimes military coups can be a good thing.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

It seems that the Egyptian people want democracy and feel that the Muslim Brotherhood betrayed that desire last time around.

The former is the encouraging part. Would be cool if this leads to moderate leadership in this strategically important country.

[Pooky 3,834]

The former is the encouraging part. Would be cool if this leads to moderate leadership in this strategically important country.

That was the wish of the majority last time around and how did that work out? I would like to believe otherwise, but I doubt the Muslim Brotherhood is going to relinquish power willingly, if at all.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

One would think military coups are a bad thing. I experienced a military coup while living in Thailand. I thought it was good thing then, and I still think it was a good thing considering the circumstances at the time. In that case the military called elections within about 9 months I think it was. I know it sounds counter-intuitive, but sometimes military coups can be a good thing.

No doubt.

That was the wish of the majority last time around and how did that work out? I would like to believe otherwise, but I doubt the Muslim Brotherhood is going to relinquish power willingly, if at all.

The military has taken sides today - and it is not the Brotherhood they are standing with. You think that the Brotherhood will fight the military?

[Pooky 3,834]

The military has taken sides today - and it is not the Brotherhood they are standing with. You think that the Brotherhood will fight the military?

That depends on how the Muslim Brotherhood has prepared for this eventuality.

[Karee 4,191]

Looks like the military is making their move. (Mods I apologize for posting this in the Trayvon Martin/ George Zimmerman forum. Please move it to the right place)

Cairo (CNN) -- Bloodshed intermingled with blood oaths early Wednesday in Egypt, as time appeared to be running out for Egyptian President Mohamed Morsy.

Health officials have counted the bodies of 23 people who died when Morsy's angry opponents met head-on overnight with his supporters at Cairo University.

Hundreds more left the clashes with bruises and other injuries, state-funded Al-Ahram news reported, after rocks, Molotov cocktails and bullets flew.

Demonstrations elsewhere in Egypt were mostly peaceful, and protest leaders have called for nonviolence.

But as a deadline approached on an ultimatum the military gave Morsy this week, the leaders spoke of potential bloodshed.

"We swear by God that we are ready to sacrifice our blood for Egypt and its people against any terrorist, extremist or ignorant," they said in a statement, which was titled "The Final Hours."

Opinion: Give Morsy a chance to fix this

On Monday, the military gave Morsy 48 hours to accommodate his opponents with a power sharing agreement or be pushed aside. That leaves him until about 5 p.m. local time (11 a.m. ET) Wednesday.

He has already said that he will not comply.

The head of the Egyptian army, Gen. Abdul Fattah Al-Sisi, called an emergency meeting with commanding officers hours ahead of the deadline, state TV reported.

In the meantime, an opposition spokesman took potshots at Morsy at a news conference. He accused the United States of propping him up out of concern for neighboring Israel.

"The hour of victory is coming," said Mahmoud Badr of the Tamarod opposition group. He predicted that the "illegitimate president" would be gone Wednesday, saying Morsy should be charged with treason.

"Not America, not Morsy, not anyone can impose their will on the Egyptian people," Badr said.

Opinion: Egyptians are fed up with Morsy

Switching sides

With the ultimatum, the armed forces appear to have thrown their weight behind those voicing their vehement opposition to Morsy's Islamist government, and they have joined them in the streets.

Early Wednesday, soldiers and police set up a perimeter around their central meeting point, Cairo's Tahrir Square, "to secure it from any possible attack," the state-run EgyNews agency reported.

In a twist of irony, it was the police force that, on the same spot in 2011, killed hundreds when they fired upon democratic, moderate and Islamic demonstrators, who stood side by side to overthrow former autocratic President Hosni Mubarak.

Mubarak had long repressed the Muslim Brotherhood, an Islamic political movement that it is now the nation's most powerful political force.

Morsy has few friends as deadline looms

The democratic reformists and moderates say Morsy's government has tightened its grip on power, moving in an authoritarian direction. Now they have joined forces with Mubarak's followers and citizens yearning for the restoration of order through the military's iron hand.

Together they are pushing hard to oust Morsy and his Islamist government, which was mainly formed from the ranks of the Muslim Brotherhood. They say they have collected 17 million signatures on a petition to remove him -- 4 million more than the number who voted Morsy into the presidency

The most zealous anti-Morsy demonstrators have ransacked Muslim Brotherhood offices all over the country in recent days, torching at least one.

Brotherhood members have complained that police did not protect them. Some have taken matters into their own hands, in one instance firing upon vandals with shotguns, an international journalism association reported.

Governments issue warnings against travel to Egypt

Coup or no?

Military leaders have told Arab media that they plan to suspend the constitution, dissolve the parliament and sideline Morsy, should he remain unbending.

In his place, they would install a mainly civilian interim council, until a new constitution can be drafted and a new president elected.

But military leaders have distanced themselves from the word "coup."

Their ultimatum was meant to push all factions toward a national consensus; the armed forces aren't looking to be part of the political or ruling circles, a spokesman, Col. Ahmed Ali, said Monday in a written statement.

The military appears to be pressuring Morsy to restructure his government to reduce the influence of the Muslim Brotherhood and include opposition members, a source close to highly placed members of Egypt's leadership told CNN.

Morsy's ministers would seem to have made a reshuffle easy on him, as five of them resigned this week, including Foreign Minister Mohamed Kamel Amr.

Opinion: In Egypt, rage must lead to game plan

Potential for violence

Like the opposition, Morsy's supporters are numerous and adamant.

They believe in the legitimacy of their government and feel their opponents are circumventing the democratic process by trying to depose their elected government.

In a televised speech late Tuesday in reaction to the military's ultimatum, Morsy reiterated that position.

"The people of Egypt gave me the mandate as president. They chose me in a free election. The people created a constitution," he said. "I have no choice but to bear responsibility for the Egyptian Constitution."

Source:

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/07/03/world/meast/egypt-protests/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

To understand the situation in Egypt, you have to understand its history, as well as acknowledge that a couple of powerful foreign governments would very much like a dictator a la Mubarak who they can control with outside money, for their own interests.

This is from a previous post I made, responding to one of your comments a year ago, Karee:

Consider the history of the modern Egyptian military. Some 40 years after former President Nasser's death, the Egyptian military continues to be the most powerful political entity in the country. Since Nasser, it has completely controlled Egypt and its presidencies, and it intends to continue to do so. Sadat came up through the military and had been appointed as Nasser's deputy. Mubarak was the same - came up through the military, and was selected as deputy by Sadat.

But Mubarak was stupid and made a huge, fatal mistake. About three years ago, he started insisting that his son Gamal be the one to take over the presidency upon his father's death or retirement, and he demanded that the army support this. The army, having a Nasserite, leftie, anti-royalist ideology, was absolutely opposed to this idea. Gamal, the privileged and pampered son of billionaire Mubarak, is not a military guy - he has no military background or training.

So the army used the opportunity of Tahrir Square to get rid of Mubarak. Didn't you wonder why they stood aside and allowed the people to take him down ? And all without any real negative effect on the military's own power structure.

The Egyptian army is the enemy of the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood. That's why they made changes before the elections to strip power from the presidency, because they know their people and saw the writing on the wall.

But now ask: does the Egyptian army hate the peace treaty with Israel as much, or even more than the Muslim Brotherhood ? Probably, yes. Their take is: Israel has violated that treaty countless times. Also, the military has not forgotten Israel's surprise attack of 1967, or its mass murder of Egyptian POWs in the Sinai.

The army is staying quiet for now, happy to keep taking the money from the U.S., investing it in their equipment and troops, and getting stronger. They know they have to stabilize the economy, get a president and a real constitution, and create jobs instead of letting the money be dumped into Mubarak's Swiss bank accounts. But this is a culture and a society based on honor, and revenge for wrongs is a big part of that honor.

It's all part of the plan.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

So it appears Mursi is done. Military implemented a transitional government.

[Karee 4,191]

So it appears Mursi is done. Military implemented a transitional government.

The question is how long until they call new elections, and if they do, will they accept the results?

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

The question is how long until they call new elections, and if they do, will they accept the results?

The shelf life of this now ousted government wasn't long. Who knows? Maybe it is really all just part of working out a representative structure. I mean Egypt has been ruled with an iron fist for decades. You don't change that overnight, I guess. George Bush said it quite well on his recent Africa trip - it all must grow and that takes time.

[Karee 4,191]

The shelf life of this now ousted government wasn't long. Who knows? Maybe it is really all just part of working out a representative structure. I mean Egypt has been ruled with an iron fist for decades. You don't change that overnight, I guess. George Bush said it quite well on his recent Africa trip - it all must grow and that takes time.

Hopefully they call elections soon. One thing they did in Thailand last time was re-write the constitution so that the coup makers could not be charged for the coup.