The Quote That Should End the Trayvon Trial

[spookyturtle 9,465]

Nice, deliberate mischaracterization of what I posted earlier. Go back and read what I said. Secondly, GZ's lawyers decided NOT to go with a Stand Your Ground defense and guess why? Because they would have been laughed out of court given the actions, words, and behavior of GZ. You see, there are mitigating circumstances to qualify as standing your ground. Instead, his defense decided to go with a simple self defense claim, and while it a simple self defense might seem less vulnerable to legal scrutiny, it is no less relevant what GZ said and did leading up to the altercation. Why so many wish to dismiss his actions and behavior that night as removed from establishing who instigated the confrontation defies logic. Thankfully, the jurors are not so blinded by their insistence of being right that they cannot recognize the truth staring right at them.

How do you or anyone else know what the jurors think? Do you think those open minded, impartial individuals were ready to vote guilty before the first witness was called? Do you think they have already made their decision and don't have a need to hear the rest of the testimony? Suppose there are five of you on the jury and one Gary, or Nature Boy or himher? And that is not a shot at any of you. That's the reality of human beings.

And I'm still don't have a horse in this race.

[RGinWA 816]

Sure, why not? I'll read it. I seem to be the only one here who hasn't devoted their entire existence to this case. I

Before the trial I knew very little and some of what I knew was incorrect. It goes to show you that there's a lot of misinformation out there.

Lucky for the VJ community I am doing remote system maintenance and monitoring for the next month, so I'm bored out of my skull.

I can rustle up some info for those who just want facts.

[spookyturtle 9,465]

It is very divided.

I'm thinking the jury of six women are NOT watching talking heads, NOT reading about the case on the internet and are NOT debating the facts yet.

I was on an over 4 week trial and it was nothing like the whirlwind coverage of this case. But in the end, all 12 saw it the way the facts were presented.

A person died and GZ holds some responsibility for them coming together. That's manslaughter at the very least. That fact will be hard to overcome because the person killed was still a minor in the eyes of the law and had not committed a crime.

He does hold some responsibility for them coming together. I'm not versed enough in the law to give an opinion on manslaughter or the self defense/stand your ground laws. I have been under the impression that the verdict needs to be unanimous. I also remember OJ Simpson was aquitted in a slam dunk case.

[spookyturtle 9,465]

Before the trial I knew very little and some of what I knew was incorrect. It goes to show you that there's a lot of misinformation out there.

Lucky for the VJ community I am doing remote system maintenance and monitoring for the next month, so I'm bored out of my skull.

I can rustle up some info for those who just want facts.

There is always misinformation out there about a case. No one here needed a trial or evidence to make a decision. All minds were made up months ago. Hopefully the jurors were a bit more impartial going in.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

The question is, was George afraid that TM was going to cause him bodily harm or great bodily harm. If someone slammed my head against a concrete floor or wall a few times to get me shaken up or wear I saw stars, I know I would be afraid and even more so if it continued. Of course I have no idea how it went down with GZ and TM. As far as TM attacking GZ, all I can say is think back to your youth and some of the people you knew and some of the stupid things they did. I know people killed for driving 90mph on a street that was barely safe for 40. But they were being daring or stupid or whatever you want to call it. How many kids have been killed or injured during Spring Break by balcony jumping or diving from 6 stories up and missing the pool? I think we could make an endless list of dumb things people do and not come up with any explanation.

Maybe GZ said something that pissed TM off and he took a swing. I've seen people get sucker- punched. I've seen people go down with one punch and I've seen an idiot insult a group of guys and get his #### pounded. I don't see it as clear cut as either side does here. One group has GZ completely blameless minding his own business and the other side has him as Atilla the Hun gutting TM and eating his liver.

And every sentence written here about this case for the past several months is all speculation. No one here knows every detail. And I'll say it again, there is a very divided opinion here at VJ, what makes anyone think that the jury is going to all agree?

I'm more persuaded by plausibility than possibility. Lots of things are possible, but plausible requires a bit more scrutiny. So, is it plausible that a lanky, 17 year old that weighed a good 30lbs. less than the defendant could overpower GZ in a brawl? And keep in mind, GZ had been doing rigorous MMA training - training that involves learning grappling moves like takedowns and how to overtake someone even when they are on top. GZ looked like a bruiser back then and not the fluffy, cuddley, 300lb teddy bear that he looks like now. Is it plausible that TM had the strength and enough limbs to somehow overtake GZ, pin him to the ground, pin GZ's hands, grabbing GZ's head and slamming into concrete deliberately and with malice? Nope. The only reason why people even entertain that idea is because that is GZ's version of what happened, even after he's been caught lying, even when the physical evidence contradicts his implausible version. That to me just defies logic, at least when measured against plausibility. I think that is the same sentiment those police investigators had when they interviewed him.

Edited June 30, 2013 by Lincolns mullet

[RGinWA 816]

He does hold some responsibility for them coming together. I'm not versed enough in the law to give an opinion on manslaughter or the self defense/stand your ground laws. I have been under the impression that the verdict needs to be unanimous. I also remember OJ Simpson was aquitted in a slam dunk case.

Here is Zimmerman's walk through with police. The key part for me is when they meet at the T and GZ reaches to get his phone, but he says that its now not on him.

Did he reach for the gun or phone? In any case this is when he says he was struck.

This is when I'd hit someone I thought was reaching for a weapon in the dark of night. Its all subjective because nobody knows.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PX1sxARNq_c

[RGinWA 816]

What's disturbing to me is that GZ is not emotionally involved at all being back at the scene of the crime just 48 hours later?

It would bother most people to return to a place they ended a young kids life.

Maybe that's just me.

[Dan and Judy 614]

Before the trial I knew very little and some of what I knew was incorrect. It goes to show you that there's a lot of misinformation out there.

Lucky for the VJ community I am doing remote system maintenance and monitoring for the next month, so I'm bored out of my skull.

I can rustle up some info for those who just want facts.

Yeah, like the body being 20 ft from the sidewalk. I mean 15, uh 12 ok 8

[one...two...tree 2,762]

What's disturbing to me is that GZ is not emotionally involved at all being back at the scene of the crime just 48 hours later?

It would bother most people to return to a place they ended a young kids life.

Maybe that's just me.

Yep. Even more troubling that he continued to refer to the victim as 'fvcking punks' during the interviewed, which the investigator spoke up and said that TM was NOT a fvcking punk.

[lostinblue 1,989]

Nice, deliberate mischaracterization of what I posted earlier. Go back and read what I said. Secondly, GZ's lawyers decided NOT to go with a Stand Your Ground defense and guess why? Because they would have been laughed out of court given the actions, words, and behavior of GZ. You see, there are mitigating circumstances to qualify as standing your ground. Instead, his defense decided to go with a simple self defense claim, and while it a simple self defense might seem less vulnerable to legal scrutiny, it is no less relevant what GZ said and did leading up to the altercation. Why so many wish to dismiss his actions and behavior that night as removed from establishing who instigated the confrontation defies logic. Thankfully, the jurors are not so blinded by their insistence of being right that they cannot recognize the truth staring right at them.

The case for Martin is based on imagination and the case for Zimmerman is based on truth

[RGinWA 816]

Yeah, like the body being 20 ft from the sidewalk. I mean 15, uh 12 ok 8

Yeah, only my details don't add up? Ok, but hey, I'm not the one on trial.

The video speaks for itself.

[RGinWA 816]

The case for Martin is based on imagination and the case for Zimmerman is based on truth

Truth of the only one still breathing...so yeah, its all true. It's just his version.

Remember, he was caught lying after the shooting also. A little misinformation on the donations he'd been given? That still hasn't made it into the record.

[spookyturtle 9,465]

Here is Zimmerman's walk through with police. The key part for me is when they meet at the T and GZ reaches to get his phone, but he says that its now not on him.

Did he reach for the gun or phone? In any case this is when he says he was struck.

This is when I'd hit someone I thought was reaching for a weapon in the dark of night. Its all subjective because nobody knows.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PX1sxARNq_c

Ok, this is the first piece of evidence I have looked at. From this alone, there is no reason to doubt George's story. He fired once. His gun wasn't in his hand as he was walking around looking for TM. I see he has bandages on the back of his head. Next piece please.

[lostinblue 1,989]

Zimmerman did not have an opportunity to leave, because his assailant was actively preventing escape(sitting on his legs) is why stand your ground does not apply,This is a simple self defense case.

[Dan and Judy 614]

So, what was TM's motive to engage GZ that night? The evidence demonstrates clearly he was trying to get back to the condo where he was staying.

• How hard was he trying?
• 7:11:33 — Zimmerman tells the police dispatcher that Trayvon Martin is running.

• 7:11:59 — In reply to the dispatcher's question, "Are you following him?" Zimmerman says, "Yes." Dispatcher states, "OK, we don't need you to do that." Zimmerman replies, "OK."

• 7:12:00 - 7:12:59 — The girl calls Martin again at some point during this minute.^[15]

• 7:13:10 — Zimmerman says he does not know where Martin is.

Map of the Retreat at Twin Lakes

• 7:13:41 — Zimmerman's call to Sanford police ends.^[15]
• 7:16:00 - 7:16:59 — Martin's call from the girl goes dead during this minute.^[15][16]
• http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_shooting_of_Trayvon_Martin
• At least 4 minutes to cover the roughly 80 yards to his house.
• How far did he get? About 30 ft
• How far can a box turtle travel in a minute?
• http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_fast_can_a_box_turtle_travel
• Answer:
  on level ground box turtles can walk at up to around one sixth of a mile per hour, which is about 14.5ft per min. but a box turtle will rarely walk for long distances without stopping so its hard to measure how much they can actually travel in an hour. in the wild, a box turtle will spend most of its time sleeping or sunning. any other time would be spent foraging for food and wouldn't be likely to walk more then a hundred yards in a day (roughly 12ft per hour).
• 4 minutes x 14.5 ft = 58 ft
• A box turtle could travel almost twice as far as Trayvon did in 4 minutes
• How hard was he trying to get home??

Edited June 30, 2013 by Dan and Judy