The Quote That Should End the Trayvon Trial

[Dan and Judy 614]

Yes George did lie about following Trayvon. He was following him, probably not looking for an address. In his recreation of events I think he lied about where Trayvon confronted him because he didnt want to say he turned down the base of the T. I think he did turn down the base of the T. I dont think George had any intention of confronting him, He just wanted to

be able to tell police where Trayvon was. I think Trayvon attacked George

[spookyturtle 9,466]

Maybe George called him the n word and TM took a pop at him?

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Yes George did lie about following Trayvon. He was following him, probably not looking for an address. In his recreation of events I think he lied about where Trayvon confronted him because he didnt want to say he turned down the base of the T. I think he did turn down the base of the T. I dont think George had any intention of confronting him, He just wanted to

be able to tell police where Trayvon was. I think Trayvon attacked George

Listen to the investigator ask Zimmerman to speculate why TM would have acted aggressively toward him? GZ acted on presumptions of guilt of his victim and magically, his fantasy became reality if TM became aggressive towards creepy older guy following him. Remember, if you can imagine what was going through GZ's mind at the time, imagine what TM was feeling and thinking. You don't have to imagine too much because of the phone conversation TM had prior to the altercation. He was scared and creeped out by GZ's bizarre behavior. He had no idea the neighborhood watch was profiling him and when the two paths crossed (however way it went down), the neighborhood watch somehow forgot to identify himself as such. He forgot to mention to his victim that he had called the police and they were on their way. He forgot to mention to his victim that he was armed if and when TM got aggressive. GZ did everything opposite of what he should have done and that at the very least, led to the death of TM. That falls on GZ and no one else. A totally preventable death.

[RGinWA 816]

GZ was out of his vehicle when they said we don't need you to follow. He said OK! He did not say no. He was heading back to his vehicle when TM assaulted him

That's not GZ's story, nor is it consistent with the physical evidence. GZ was looking for the address when he stumbled on to him...that's GZ's story.

[RGinWA 816]

Maybe George called him the n word and TM took a pop at him?

GZ didn't get one hit in on a kid without MMA training.

Now that's going to be an issue when he comes out into the yard.

I see him spending a lot of time in that cell.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Maybe George called him the n word and TM took a pop at him?

I hope that it is clarified to the jurors by the prosecutor that getting into a scuffle or brawl doesn't not justify a claim of self-defense, let alone using lethal force to stop the other person if they were gaining the upper hand. Why didn't GZ say outloud to TM that he didn't want to fight him, that things could turn ugly because he was the neighborhood watchman and was armed? Why didn't he try to deter whatever aggression TM might have shown by telling him the cops were on the way - just minutes away in fact? GZ got out of his truck looking for action. He called the cops for backup and decided early on that he personally wasn't going to let this 'a$shole' get away like all the others before him.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

I could see Martin wanting to make sure the creepy A.C. was not following him to see where he lived, justifiable paranoia being one of them. He may have even decided to confront Zimmerman away from where he was staying, for that reason. He already told Dee Dee, he wasn't going to run. Have it out here, instead of messing with his homelife. Near the T seems like a good place - three directions to run, all lead back home. Zimmerman's mistake was catching up with the kid.

[RGinWA 816]

I hope that it is clarified to the jurors by the prosecutor that getting into a scuffle or brawl doesn't not justify a claim of self-defense, let alone using lethal force to stop the other person if they were gaining the upper hand. Why didn't GZ say outloud to TM that he didn't want to fight him, that things could turn ugly because he was the neighborhood watchman and was armed? Why didn't he try to deter whatever aggression TM might have shown by telling him the cops were on the way - just minutes away in fact? GZ got out of his truck looking for action. He called the cops for backup and decided early on that he personally wasn't going to let this 'a$shole' get away like all the others before him.

The key in my mind is at what point is GZ contributing to the incident? Maybe at the point he decides to call the police and follow an innocent person and GZ is very far from his home, there is no imminent threat of his home, himself or his family.

Without them meeting at the T, there is no confrontation. Do we expect a 17 year old to treat someone following them as a welcomed event? He is still a minor and under the law, not judged with the same mentality as an adult...which GZ claims he knew on the 911 call...he was a kid right?

The jurors are only considering what is before them, and they may see this for what it is; nosy NW guy goes too far and then kills a minor.

Manslaughter...30 years max, probably gets 12.

[himher 634]

I don't think it will be a hung jury and don't think any jurors went into this trial with any preconceived ideas of guilt or innocence, but if they listen to that interview with police, there is substantial doubt based on conflicting evidence and GZ's own words, that he reasonably feared for his life to the point where using lethal force was justifiable - that there were no other alternatives at his disposal that evening. When framed that way - I believe this is an open and shut case.

WOW

An Illinois liberal lawyer thinks the cracker should be convicted

This whole thread goes without saying

He will walk because down here wearing a hoodie and wandering around gated communities in a rainstorm is suspicious behavior to any reasonable person

[spookyturtle 9,466]

WOW

An Illinois liberal lawyer thinks the cracker should be convicted

This whole thread goes without saying

He will walk because down here wearing a hoodie and wandering around gated communities in a rainstorm is suspicious behavior to any reasonable person

I don't there is really an issue of TM being a suspicious person or behaving suspiciously. He wasn't breaking the lawn and neither was GZ by calling the police. As I've said before, I see something out of place in my quaint MA suburban neighborhood, I'd call the cops too, especially if there had been break ins in the area. In fact, up here the cops encourage the citizenship to report suspicious behavior. Calling the cops is pro active. GZ should have let the cops take it from there when he made the phone call. He didn't and someone or both started an altercation. It was preventable on both sides. They probably crossed paths and both of them sh!t themselves when they came face to face.

[spookyturtle 9,466]

The key in my mind is at what point is GZ contributing to the incident? Maybe at the point he decides to call the police and follow an innocent person and GZ is very far from his home, there is no imminent threat of his home, himself or his family.

Without them meeting at the T, there is no confrontation. Do we expect a 17 year old to treat someone following them as a welcomed event? He is still a minor and under the law, not judged with the same mentality as an adult...which GZ claims he knew on the 911 call...he was a kid right?

The jurors are only considering what is before them, and they may see this for what it is; nosy NW guy goes too far and then kills a minor.

Manslaughter...30 years max, probably gets 12.

GZ wasn't contributing to the incident by calling the police. That was the right thing to do. His contribution to the incident started when he began following TM. We only have GZ's story as to what TM did. Did he attack first? Was he really kicking GZ's a$$? What is there for medical evidence to support this claim? Was GZ hurt? I'm asking as I haven't spent any time on the details of the case.

[spookyturtle 9,466]

I hope that it is clarified to the jurors by the prosecutor that getting into a scuffle or brawl doesn't not justify a claim of self-defense, let alone using lethal force to stop the other person if they were gaining the upper hand. Why didn't GZ say outloud to TM that he didn't want to fight him, that things could turn ugly because he was the neighborhood watchman and was armed? Why didn't he try to deter whatever aggression TM might have shown by telling him the cops were on the way - just minutes away in fact? GZ got out of his truck looking for action. He called the cops for backup and decided early on that he personally wasn't going to let this 'a$shole' get away like all the others before him.

No, just getting into a scuffle doesn't justify a claim of self defense. But if one person was being severely beaten and being submissive, ie, not landing any punches or being able to thwart the attack, then it could easily be to a point where he was in fear of his life. There was a case here in MA a few years ago where two fathers got into an argument at a kids hockey game. One dad jumped the other and had him on the ground bashing his head on the concrete floor like a madman until bystanders pull him off. Unfortunately, the man died from head trauma. No gun involved. But no doubt the man on the bottom feared for his life and ended up dead. If he had a gun and shot his attacker, it was a clear cut case of self defense, plenty of witnesses. But he didn't have a gun and the lethal damage was done in a matter of seconds.

Is it possible that GZ was really getting his a$$ kicked and had no way out? He couldn't physically defend himself? Was TM gonna stop or beat him into unconsciousness? None of us know. And if TM truly had the best of George, George didn't know either. I'm not really taking sides here, I'm just trying to see it for what it is.

[Karee 4,191]

No, just getting into a scuffle doesn't justify a claim of self defense. But if one person was being severely beaten and being submissive, ie, not landing any punches or being able to thwart the attack, then it could easily be to a point where he was in fear of his life. There was a case here in MA a few years ago where two fathers got into an argument at a kids hockey game. One dad jumped the other and had him on the ground bashing his head on the concrete floor like a madman until bystanders pull him off. Unfortunately, the man died from head trauma. No gun involved. But no doubt the man on the bottom feared for his life and ended up dead. If he had a gun and shot his attacker, it was a clear cut case of self defense, plenty of witnesses. But he didn't have a gun and the lethal damage was done in a matter of seconds.

Is it possible that GZ was really getting his a$$ kicked and had no way out? He couldn't physically defend himself? Was TM gonna stop or beat him into unconsciousness? None of us know. And if TM truly had the best of George, George didn't know either. I'm not really taking sides here, I'm just trying to see it for what it is.

The argument some people are making is that GZ followed him because he's black, therefore he deserved an a$$ whooping. Of course I disagree with that argument because it doesn't make sense. That's usually what happens when the race card gets thrown all over the place. Common sense goes out the window.

I haven't heard anyone mention the possibility that TM beat the hell out of GZ because he was white. I guess that conversation is off limits because only white people are capable of racism. I wonder if GZ was black, would the situation be any different?

Edited June 30, 2013 by Karee

[spookyturtle 9,466]

The argument some people are making is that GZ followed him because he's black, therefore he deserved an a$$ whooping. Of course I disagree with that argument because it doesn't make sense. That's usually what happens when the race card gets thrown all over the place. Common sense goes out the window.

I haven't heard anyone mention the possibility that TM beat the hell out of GZ because he was white. I wonder if GZ was black, would the situation be any different? I guess that conversation is off limits because only white people are capable of racism.

Maybe words were exchanged? Maybe GZ said what the ** are you doing here and TM said ** you and popped him. It doesn't sound like GZ had pistol in hand when their paths crossed. Not many would be stupid enough to attack someone with a gun in their hand unless they were highly trained, maybe a SEAL, Ranger, etc.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Martin was hanging out at the mailboxes, by the community center. That area was covered, and out of the rain. Zimmerman saw him as he was approaching the clubhouse. Instead of turning left and going to the grocery store, he pulled into parking area in front of the club house to call the cops. When Martin left the cover of the mailbox area and started walking down Twin Trees lane, Zimmerman decided to follow him in his car.

If Zimmermann was approaching the clubhouse on his way to the grocery, he could not have seen anyone at the mailboxes. Coming down Retreat View Circle from Zimmermann's residence towards the entrance of the community where he would make a left turn to exit the gated community, the little side building that houses the mailboxes is behind the clubhouse - next to the clubhouse off of Twin Tree Lane. There is landscaping that would block the view from Retreat View Circle. Now, he could have seen him entering the community and followed him down Twin Tree Lane or he was on Twin Tree Lane to begin with. I can't quite visualize how he would have seen Martin at the mailboxes any other way. It was dark and rainy, too. Bottom line, his story doesn't add up.

Edited June 30, 2013 by Mr. Big Dog