Day 5- Zimmerman Trial

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I don't think that GZ planned to shoot TM from the moment he saw him. I don't think that he intended to shoot him while he was on the phone with the police. At some point, the scene escalated due to action or words or both from either on party or both parties. There was a confrontation and GZ laid the groundwork for it by following TM. Was this illegal? Not where I live. Could it cause an altercation? Most definitely. Both parties had fault in this to some degree. I bet that both of them would do things differently this time around, especially TM. And George would probably stay in his car and wait for the cops this time around.

George did fire once. If TM still came at him, I think most anyone would shoot again if you were hells bent on killing someone. GZ is still alive, but his life will never be the same and I doubt he'll be on an immigration forum bragging about shooting a punk, thug darkie. I don't know exactly what happened, I wasn't there. I don't know who said what and who attacked who. I also know that if 10 people witness the same event, there will be 10 slightly different versions of it. And I doubt any human would tell the story the same way word for word every time they were asked. These things happen in a flash. I doubt anyone sat down and wrote an account of it while it was happening, witness and responders included. Police are trained, the guy watching out his kitchen window isn't. The girl on the phone with TM isn't.

Both did things that were inappropriate. Is there enough evidence to convince the jury that GZ was not in fear of his life? Is there enough to show that he was? Will all 6 jurors see it the same way? You can't get 6 people at VJ to agree. Perhaps the same will be true of the jury.

Spooky gets it.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

And if it was GZ yelling for help on the audio, how was TM suffocating him right before he was shot?

In my opinion, it's worse if it's GZ yelling for help, it proves he had at least a hand free and wasn't having his head pounded by cement or mouth covered, because even GZ states they had moved over to the grass by then.

He may have been in fear for his life because he was weak and scared, but not in the sense he was really gonna die. I wrestle with my son and I'll tell you, he thinks everything that hurts is a major injury. For GZ there is a name for it and it starts with P and ends with Y.

Nothing GZ is or was counts it appears...not even facts.

Not sure when you are going to get it.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Funny how Johnathan Good says the fight started on the grass, and ended up on the sidewalk. We are still trying to figure out how Martin ended up face down, several feet away from the sidewalk.

Them hogs was rootin' around, they may have moved the body.

Doesn't matter. Reasonable doubt. The Prostitution's case is all about providing reasonable doubt.

Edited June 29, 2013 by Gary and Alla

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Funny how Johnathan Good says the fight started on the grass, and ended up on the sidewalk. We are still trying to figure out how Martin ended up face down, several feet away from the sidewalk.

So now you are doubting the prostitution's witnesses?

It will all get better when the defense puts on their case.

[Dan and Judy 614]

"you gonna die tonight mfer"

I would take this statement with a spoonful of salt

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I'm starting to hear the same tone of hysteria that surfaced after that background check bill tanked.

GZ is gonna walk. Not one shred of evidence has been submitted that does not match his story and at least one (but probably more than half) of the jurers are going to conclude that it is reasonable to suspect that someone wandering on foot through a gated neighborhood in a black hoodie during a rainstorm might not belong there and it is reasonable to want to know what that person is doing.

Guess: He got up after he got shot and then GZ tackled him and held him down until he quit moving

Good news.

As for the other, that question need not be answered by the defense.

I would take this statement with a spoonful of salt

or 115 grains of lead.

[Dan and Judy 614]

I don't think that GZ planned to shoot TM from the moment he saw him. I don't think that he intended to shoot him while he was on the phone with the police. At some point, the scene escalated due to action or words or both from either on party or both parties. There was a confrontation and GZ laid the groundwork for it by following TM. Was this illegal? Not where I live. Could it cause an altercation? Most definitely. Both parties had fault in this to some degree. I bet that both of them would do things differently this time around, especially TM. And George would probably stay in his car and wait for the cops this time around.

George did fire once. If TM still came at him, I think most anyone would shoot again if you were hells bent on killing someone. GZ is still alive, but his life will never be the same and I doubt he'll be on an immigration forum bragging about shooting a punk, thug darkie. I don't know exactly what happened, I wasn't there. I don't know who said what and who attacked who. I also know that if 10 people witness the same event, there will be 10 slightly different versions of it. And I doubt any human would tell the story the same way word for word every time they were asked. These things happen in a flash. I doubt anyone sat down and wrote an account of it while it was happening, witness and responders included. Police are trained, the guy watching out his kitchen window isn't. The girl on the phone with TM isn't.

Both did things that were inappropriate. Is there enough evidence to convince the jury that GZ was not in fear of his life? Is there enough to show that he was? Will all 6 jurors see it the same way? You can't get 6 people at VJ to agree. Perhaps the same will be true of the jury.

Inquiring minds want to know.

The above statement has been endorsed by 3 who could be considered pro zimmerman.

Do the pro Trayvons disagree with it?

[himher 634]

No, your whole statement by GZ "you gonna die tonight mfer"

That is what GZ states. You may return your tinfoil to your skull.

Yes. One part is GZ's story. The other part is the witness's story. So far the physical evidence and evidence by witnesses that has been presented in court supports GZ's story and certainly Ursula the sea witch didn't really bring anything new to the courtroom (except exposure as a bald-faced liar) so wouldn't it be reasonable to assume that the rest of GZ's is true?

I don't think that GZ planned to shoot TM from the moment he saw him. I don't think that he intended to shoot him while he was on the phone with the police. At some point, the scene escalated due to action or words or both from either on party or both parties. There was a confrontation and GZ laid the groundwork for it by following TM. Was this illegal? Not where I live. Could it cause an altercation? Most definitely. Both parties had fault in this to some degree. I bet that both of them would do things differently this time around, especially TM. And George would probably stay in his car and wait for the cops this time around.

George did fire once. If TM still came at him, I think most anyone would shoot again if you were hells bent on killing someone. GZ is still alive, but his life will never be the same and I doubt he'll be on an immigration forum bragging about shooting a punk, thug darkie. I don't know exactly what happened, I wasn't there. I don't know who said what and who attacked who. I also know that if 10 people witness the same event, there will be 10 slightly different versions of it. And I doubt any human would tell the story the same way word for word every time they were asked. These things happen in a flash. I doubt anyone sat down and wrote an account of it while it was happening, witness and responders included. Police are trained, the guy watching out his kitchen window isn't. The girl on the phone with TM isn't.

Both did things that were inappropriate. Is there enough evidence to convince the jury that GZ was not in fear of his life? Is there enough to show that he was? Will all 6 jurors see it the same way? You can't get 6 people at VJ to agree. Perhaps the same will be true of the jury.

I believe you are right.

Don't get cocky! LOL

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I will say one thing as a general observation. Were I a neighborhood watch guy (we don't really have those here since little crime and everyone can be armed anyway) but IF I were, then I would have left my truck with a 12 ga. Remington M870 with folding stock, extended magazine and flashlight attached. Though I carry a handgun everywhere it is only because it is handy. I much prefer a shotgun when I have the chance to retrieve it.

Now imagine GZ approaches TM with the shotgun using the attached flashlight to illuminate him and says "I have called the police and they are going to be talking to you, lets just stay right here until they arrive"

TM would still be alive. The result would at least be no worse except for the size of the hole in TMs chest. TM would be much less likely to assault GZ the way he did with the big muzzle of a 12 guage pointed at him.

But, it is what it is and GZ will walk because TM made some really bad choices based in ignorance and got killed for it. Had it been obvious GZ was armed and could kill him in 12 milliseconds, I think the result would have been different.

GZ was armed with a defensive weapon when he should have taken the time to arm himself with an OFFENSIVE weapon. When people KNOW, or can assume, you are armed, there is a lot less crime.

[Dan and Judy 614]

are all the pro Trayvons out to lunch?

[lostinblue 1,989]

Throw logic at them and they flee. Having your head hit the sidewalk alone is grounds for self defense. Travon was sitting on georges legs thus preventing an escape, forcing George to take the blows., forcing his head to hit the sidewalk. Fear of grave bodily harm was established. It seems that asking for help in many eyes means George was a baby ,,not a mans man,,,,how about pleading for help so he would not have to kill someone. There is nothing cowardly about this. Spook I agree with most of what you wrote.

[lostinblue 1,989]

Ask a police officer how many rounds he would let go if he was on the bottom like this........ The full mag......I guess George was not a wanna be cop after all,

[spookyturtle 9,466]

I believe Mr "ground and pound" testified that the "victim" was doing the punching and GZ in an interview last year before he was indicted said that the kid told him he was going to die tonite and that he was going to f---ing kill him while he was sitting on him.

GZ's version of what happened. Of course he's going to put himself in the best possible light. We all would. I'm not implying that he was lying about that. I'm sure that there is truth in his story just as there is on the other side. I don't believe word for word what GZ said. Ditto for the prosecution witnesses. And none of them may intentionally lying. It is their versions of what happened. If that makes sense.

[spookyturtle 9,466]

Inquiring minds want to know.

The above statement has been endorsed by 3 who could be considered pro zimmerman.

Do the pro Trayvons disagree with it?

Good question. I'd like to hear their input. This discussion isn't about making fun of those who don't agree with your point of view. Obviously there are comments being made here to get reaction as there is in most any discussion here. Some are trolling and baiting. Most of have done that at various times for a laugh and to stir the pot. I think my post was quite moderate and not favoring either side. I usually listen to both sides of the story. And I truly hope the jury is doing the same and will then arrive at their conclusion. Jurors are humans too and have emotions. I don't envy any of them. But they are the ones listening and viewing the evidence. I'd rather take my chances being judged by a jury than an internet forum.

Edited June 30, 2013 by spookyturtle

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

Kids caught in the act of sitting on top of someone whaling on them with their fists and telling them they are going to f--ing kill them should be shot.

Kids caught stealing should go to jail. BUT kids who steal and are in jail for it are not really in a position to be caught in the act of sitting on top of someone whaling on them with their fists telling them they are going to f---ing kill them.

it is clear that if the school system had not been trying to pad the stats on arrest and turned TM in for stealing all the jewelry from the house he burglarized none of this would have happened.