Affordable Care Act...isn't Affordable

[Protocol417 161]

So because it was in Forbes, health care costs ARE NOT rising? Great news.

My post didn't contain the words "health care costs are not rising", nor can I really see how you could think I was implying that.

[Protocol417 161]

I am guessing that being "dragged to the right" is NOT George Bush's fault.

Universal Healthcare (single payer) was proposed by our Independent/Socialist Senator Bernie Sanders during the healthcare debate. It was ignored and shot down by Democrats. Universal healthcare does not offer political power to anyone. This is why it works in Vermont but not in Washington.

The entire debate on healthcare was among Democrats. NO Republican voted for it and NO Republican vote was needed. All the wrangling and debate and maneurvering was to get Democrats to vote for it by giving them special treatment for their states and adding enough pork to the whole thing to satisfy all the Dems.

Obamacare is not what we needed, is not what we wanted and will not work to make healthcare more afffordable.

Sure, if the entire health care debate, or history of politics in general, started right at that moment, you might be right. But it didn't.

It was ignored and shot down by Democrats because they knew it had absolutely no chance of succeeding, and they were right. Even if Democrats needed no Republican vote to get anything through, Democrats do not all vote lockstep with one another, and even if they did, and passed universal health care, what then? Democrats will not be in power forever. They're struggling to keep Obamacare floating, and that was a Republican idea! This is what I meant by being "dragged to the right": Not simply what they voted on, but why something more liberal simply wasn't an option in the current climate.

I agree that Obamacare was not the right way to go about things, in a perfect world, but it's what we've got, and it has barely even begun playing out yet. I'm willing to set aside my disagreement with the policy to at least observe its affects when it's fully implemented, because I know that what I do want cannot be passed... yet. And if the ACA implodes in a big fiery ball of fire? Hey, maybe that will convince more people that universal healthcare ain't so bad after all. Or maybe we'll move on to the next step, which is taking insurance out of the hands of for-profit businesses, and then we've got Germany's model, which I can also very much live with.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Exactly. The so-called "free market" model hasn't worked, because it isn't. So, if you are going to continue to have the largest consumers of healthcare in the US already subsidized by those that consume healthcare the least, you might as well admit the US has de facto socialized medicine, that American healthcare expectations are unreasonable, and that expecting employers to provide medical insurance for their employees is counter-intuitive. It is time for government to nationalize the entire healthcare industry, and pay for those services through a combination of tax revenue and fee for service. Single-payer healthcare is the only solution.

Insurance by defacto is pooled risk. Healthy people are paying for the care of the sickly. How does PPACA change that fact?

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Insurance by defacto is pooled risk. Healthy people are paying for the care of the sickly. How does PPACA change that fact?

One aim of PPACA was to increase the participation of healthy people in the third party payer system, as well as cover a larger portion of the unhealthy people. So far, it has failed in the first, in part with all the corporate exceptions to the PPACA, however, the enrollment of the unhealthy has increased.

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

Well, we lived and will be living again in New Hampshire. Hubby had employer provided insurance thru Aetna and it cost a fortune every month.Even then we still had horrible medical bills because we had a HUGE deductible and when we hit the deductible, we still had to pay 20%. We spent over $100.00 JUST on medicine every month. That doesn't include doctor's bills, lab tests, etc. I'm STILL paying off a hospital bill. I had an ambulance ride back in 2009...literally less than a mile to the hospital and it cost over $1000.00 and out of that, we ended up owing just over $300.00 and that doesn't even touch my stay in the hospital. Its so scary when just one illness or injury can bankrupt a person. I just always pay what I can every month and luckily that keeps them happy!

What I think is absurd is... If you got to the hospital and have insurance and get a 15K bill they adjust it down to 4 or 5 K for contract rate. If you don't have insurance you pay 15K.

That is BS..... Seems like you should get a bigger discount for cash because they don't have to file all that paperwork.

100 per month for drugs to keep you alive is not bad.. I bet you spend more than that on cell phones.

[decocker 7,198]

That is BS..... Seems like you should get a bigger discount for cash because they don't have to file all that paperwork.

in my experience you do get a discount if you pay cash - but you have to pay the entirety of the bill upfront.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

One aim of PPACA was to increase the participation of healthy people in the third party payer system, as well as cover a larger portion of the unhealthy people. So far, it has failed in the first, in part with all the corporate exceptions to the PPACA, however, the enrollment of the unhealthy has increased.

I still don't understand why you think PPACA is unique from what insurance is designed to do - pool risk? The mandate provision was not only an original, Republican idea, it was what the insurance companies wanted. They argued (and reasonably so) that without a mandate, they are being required to not drop people because of preconditions. PPACA needed the insurance companies to end that practice in order to achieve its aim - to cover the millions of Americans without insurance.

As far people with higher incomes subsidizing the poor - they already did that. Medicaid is subsidized healthcare for the poor, but there were many working poor who made too much to qualify for Medicaid, but too poor to afford health insurance. However, the uninsured were being subsidized by those with insurance every time they went to the emergency room or got admitted into a hospital. That's the most inefficient form of subsidy because those individuals were getting treated at maximum costs, often for ailments that would have been cheaper to treat through preventable care.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

I still don't understand why you think PPACA is unique from what insurance is designed to do - pool risk? The mandate provision was not only an original, Republican idea, it was what the insurance companies wanted. They argued (and reasonably so) that without a mandate, they are being required to not drop people because of preconditions. PPACA needed the insurance companies to end that practice in order to achieve its aim - to cover the millions of Americans without insurance.

As far people with higher incomes subsidizing the poor - they already did that. Medicaid is subsidized healthcare for the poor, but there were many working poor who made too much to qualify for Medicaid, but too poor to afford health insurance. However, the uninsured were being subsidized by those with insurance every time they went to the emergency room or got admitted into a hospital. That's the most inefficient form of subsidy because those individuals were getting treated at maximum costs, often for ailments that would have been cheaper to treat through preventable care.

non-sequitur

Use your brain instead of regurgitating talking points.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

List of Obamacare Exempt Companies

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2900475/posts

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

in my experience you do get a discount if you pay cash - but you have to pay the entirety of the bill upfront.

Valerie you do get a discount for paying cash up front, but usually a percent of your deductible or a modest discount.

what I am talking about is how the Hospital or provider writes the bill down 50-80% for the insurance company.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Valerie you do get a discount for paying cash up front, but usually a percent of your deductible or a modest discount.

what I am talking about is how the Hospital or provider writes the bill down 50-80% for the insurance company.

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/437618-promise-of-price-cut-on-hospital-bills-is-in-limbo/

[decocker 7,198]

Valerie you do get a discount for paying cash up front, but usually a percent of your deductible or a modest discount.

what I am talking about is how the Hospital or provider writes the bill down 50-80% for the insurance company.

can you pay cash if you have insurance that can be billed?

when i had my son (eleven years ago), the hospital i gave birth in was not in my ins 'network' and i ended up with a pretty hefty bill. i had no means to pay the thing off in entirety like the hospital wanted so the hospital ended up writing off the remainder of the amount owed. i think most hospitals write off a considerable portion or their inflated charges as 'bad debt'. tax credit $$.

[Glyn and Kathy 288]

What I think is absurd is... If you got to the hospital and have insurance and get a 15K bill they adjust it down to 4 or 5 K for contract rate. If you don't have insurance you pay 15K.

That is BS..... Seems like you should get a bigger discount for cash because they don't have to file all that paperwork.

100 per month for drugs to keep you alive is not bad.. I bet you spend more than that on cell phones.

Not really...we get the same drugs here and pay a total of £10.40 a month TOTAL. We buy a prepayment certificate and pay 10.40 a month for 10 months and it covers all our medicine. As for cell phones, hubby and I both have USED phones off of ebay...probably cost a total of £60 for both, and we each pay £12.00 a month. No bells and whistles...we have better things to spend our money on...food, a place to live, gas for the car, clothes...etc. Oh yea...and some to put aside for our "golden years" if we can ever afford to retire! LMAO!

Edited June 25, 2013 by Glyn and Kathy

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

can you pay cash if you have insurance that can be billed?

when i had my son (eleven years ago), the hospital i gave birth in was not in my ins 'network' and i ended up with a pretty hefty bill. i had no means to pay the thing off in entirety like the hospital wanted so the hospital ended up writing off the remainder of the amount owed. i think most hospitals write off a considerable portion or their inflated charges as 'bad debt'. tax credit $$.

example my wife had a procedure. My portion was about 1200.00 bucks. They gave me a 10% discount if I paid the deducible up front or 120.00

However the bill was about 15K. They billed the insuranceabout 4500 or the negoited rate. They would have tried to collect 15K from me if I did not have insurance.

I thin kamaged care andinsurance have messed up medicalcare. More folks pushing paper than prvoding care now days.

My dad was a small town doctor. If you had medicalinsurance back then, you filedit yourself. What you owedthedoctor was between you and him. Care was cheap and almsot everyone inthe hopital provided direct medical care. There were about 6 girls in the bussines offcie of a 60 bed hospital. That's it.

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

Obama Promises To Lower Health Insurance Premiums by $2,500 Per Year