K1 Visa holder w/o EAD

[PachucoBro 3]

I have been away from these forums for awhile, but I figured I better throw in a reply so if others read this thread they won't think I shut up after everyone flamed me.

All that I said is true. You CAN work LEGALLY with just your I-94 from ANY POE location, your passport and your SS card.

This is assuming you have a K Visa ofcourse.

[PachucoBro 3]

which is exactly why I stated "if the employer wants to hire someone without the necessary documentation required of them, that's on the employer". I also stated that working is incidental to the K1. Regardless what the employer does, you still cannot provide the necessary documentation to the employer. You just happened to find an employer who chooses to ignore the I-9 requirements.

If you read the I-9 document, you would see it specifically states U.S. social security card issued by the Social Security Administration (other than a card stating it is not valid for employment)

which is the typical card received initially

Well my original post was not necessarily saying you were disseminating bad advice it was jsut I replied to the topic after you, but AFTER reading your post...

Look again at the I-9 form you posted and referred to. You are required, as is the employer, to have 2 forms of identification. One from list A OR one from list B and C each.

LIST A - All you need is item 4. An unexpired Passport with the EAD stamp (supposedly still given at JFK) OR the I-94 that has an unexpired work authorization, which is ANY K Visa.

LISTS B and C - You can choose any you like from LIST B and then LIST C use item 1. This is a SS card that DOES NOT SAY "Not Valid for Employment". A SS card that says, "Valid for work only with DHS authorization." This obviously does not say it is NOT valid for employment.

If you read the SSA website you will know that there are only 3 types of SS cards. The normal one with no writing on it, "Valid for work only with DHS Authorization" and "Not valid for Employment".

The K Visa is your proof that you are authorized to work from DHS. There is no other papers needed to prove it while your K visa is still valid. Only after it has expired do you need an EAD.

[Kez/JWolf 6]

which is exactly why I stated "if the employer wants to hire someone without the necessary documentation required of them, that's on the employer". I also stated that working is incidental to the K1. Regardless what the employer does, you still cannot provide the necessary documentation to the employer. You just happened to find an employer who chooses to ignore the I-9 requirements.

If you read the I-9 document, you would see it specifically states U.S. social security card issued by the Social Security Administration (other than a card stating it is not valid for employment)

which is the typical card received initially

Well my original post was not necessarily saying you were disseminating bad advice it was jsut I replied to the topic after you, but AFTER reading your post...

Look again at the I-9 form you posted and referred to. You are required, as is the employer, to have 2 forms of identification. One from list A OR one from list B and C each.

LIST A - All you need is item 4. An unexpired Passport with the EAD stamp (supposedly still given at JFK) OR the I-94 that has an unexpired work authorization, which is ANY K Visa.

LISTS B and C - You can choose any you like from LIST B and then LIST C use item 1. This is a SS card that DOES NOT SAY "Not Valid for Employment". A SS card that says, "Valid for work only with DHS authorization." This obviously does not say it is NOT valid for employment.

If you read the SSA website you will know that there are only 3 types of SS cards. The normal one with no writing on it, "Valid for work only with DHS Authorization" and "Not valid for Employment".

The K Visa is your proof that you are authorized to work from DHS. There is no other papers needed to prove it while your K visa is still valid. Only after it has expired do you need an EAD.

See line in RED.... your I-94 has to have work authorization... which is NOT any K visa... K2,K3 are not work authorized at all... and K1 is only work authorized for 90 days....

If no EAD was needed than why would everyone have to file for one???? I take it you will be happy for your wife to work illegaly once her 90 days are up....

Good luck my friend

Kez

[PachucoBro 3]

Look again at the I-9 form you posted and referred to. You are required, as is the employer, to have 2 forms of identification. One from list A OR one from list B and C each.

LIST A - All you need is item 4. An unexpired Passport with the EAD stamp (supposedly still given at JFK) OR the I-94 that has an unexpired work authorization, which is ANY K Visa.

LISTS B and C - You can choose any you like from LIST B and then LIST C use item 1. This is a SS card that DOES NOT SAY "Not Valid for Employment". A SS card that says, "Valid for work only with DHS authorization." This obviously does not say it is NOT valid for employment.

See line in RED.... your I-94 has to have work authorization... which is NOT any K visa... K2,K3 are not work authorized at all... and K1 is only work authorized for 90 days....

If no EAD was needed than why would everyone have to file for one???? I take it you will be happy for your wife to work illegaly once her 90 days are up....

Good luck my friend

Kez

Ok, yes you got me... I said ANY K Visa, which is incorrect. Let me correct my statement and say K1 visas FOR SURE can work without an EAD DURING the initial 90 days after enrty to the US.

This is the time period when everyone is always wanting to work and people in these forums keep saying you can't or that you need to file for an EAD to be able to work during this time period. This is not correct.

An EAD is only needed AFTER the expiration of the I-94. then you are supposed to stop working and wait for your EAD.

Edited December 21, 2006 by PachucoBro

[KarenCee 3]

Somebody PLEEEEEEEEEEEEASE PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEASE let's get some accurate information posted or pinned or something. Please? There's so much misinformation going on, it's almost like the "misinformation line" at the USCIS!

[PachucoBro 3]

Somebody PLEEEEEEEEEEEEASE PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEASE let's get some accurate information posted or pinned or something. Please? There's so much misinformation going on, it's almost like the "misinformation line" at the USCIS!

SSA.gov - My immigration document shows K-1. How do I get a work Social Security number?

SSA.gov - Do legal aliens need a Social Security number to work?

SSA.gov - What types of Social Security cards does SSA issue?

[KarenCee 3]

Somebody PLEEEEEEEEEEEEASE PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEASE let's get some accurate information posted or pinned or something. Please? There's so much misinformation going on, it's almost like the "misinformation line" at the USCIS!

SSA.gov - My immigration document shows K-1. How do I get a work Social Security number?

SSA.gov - Do legal aliens need a Social Security number to work?

SSA.gov - What types of Social Security cards does SSA issue?

From the first link:

Immigration status and work authorization

To prove your U.S. immigration status, you must show us the current U.S. immigration document, I-94, Arrival/Departure Record, issued to you when you arrived in the United States. If you are an F-1 or M-1 student, you also must show us your I-20, Certificate of Eligibility for Nonimmigrant Student Status. If you are a J-1 or J-2 exchange visitor, you must show us your DS-2019, Certificate of Eligibility for Exchange Visitor Status.

For most foreign workers, we only need to see an I-94, Arrival/Departure Record. Some foreign workers also must show their work permits from DHS (I-766 or I-688B).

From the second link:

The employee will need to submit Form SS-5 with evidence of age, identity and current authorization to work from the Department of Homeland Security (DHS). (The application cannot be filed by the employer.) The immigration document may be acceptable as evidence of both identity and authorization to work in the United States. All documents must be either originals or copies certified by the issuing agency.

From the third link:

We issue three types of Social Security cards depending on an individual's citizen or noncitizen status and whether or not a noncitizen is authorized by the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) to work in the United States. They include:

1. The first type of card shows the individual's name and Social Security number only. This is the card most people have and reflects the fact that the holder can work in the U.S. without restriction. We issue this card to:

* U.S. citizens; or

* Noncitizens lawfully admitted to the United States for permanent residence and noncitizens with DHS permission to work permanently in the United States (e.g., refugees and asylees).

2. The second type of card bears, in addition to the individual's name and Social Security number, the legend: "NOT VALID FOR EMPLOYMENT." We issue this card to lawful noncitizens who do not have DHS permission to work, but are required by law to provide a Social Security number to get general assistance benefits that they already have qualified for.

3. The third type of card bears, in addition to the individual's name and Social Security number, the legend” "VALID FOR WORK ONLY WITH DHS AUTHORIZATION." We issue this card to people with DHS permission to work temporarily in the United States.

If you are a noncitizen, we must verify your documents with DHS before we issue a SSN card.

So you're saying all this right here is what gives all of us permission to work *WITHOUT* the EAD? Then why do we have to fill out and apply for an EAD...how does one show authorization without supportive documents from the DHS?

[Kez/JWolf 6]

That is the point..... unless you have the TEMP EAD stamp on your I-94 or a full 1 year EAD approved after filing for AOS... you have no proof you are employment authorized...

Yes a K1 is EA for 90 days but any employer should be asking for the proof and that would be the stamp on the I-94 or the EAD...

A SSN is not proof you are allowed to work... you still need the EAD... that is why we all have to apply for it.. if you want to work...

Kez

[KarenCee 3]

That is the point..... unless you have the TEMP EAD stamp on your I-94 or a full 1 year EAD approved after filing for AOS... you have no proof you are employment authorized...

Yes a K1 is EA for 90 days but any employer should be asking for the proof and that would be the stamp on the I-94 or the EAD...

A SSN is not proof you are allowed to work... you still need the EAD... that is why we all have to apply for it.. if you want to work...

Kez

THAT'S what I thought too. Which makes me wish that there were something *clear cut* and in layman's terms so that some people will stop giving out misinformation.

[jo&john 1]

That is the point..... unless you have the TEMP EAD stamp on your I-94 or a full 1 year EAD approved after filing for AOS... you have no proof you are employment authorized...

Yes a K1 is EA for 90 days but any employer should be asking for the proof and that would be the stamp on the I-94 or the EAD...

A SSN is not proof you are allowed to work... you still need the EAD... that is why we all have to apply for it.. if you want to work...

Kez

THAT'S what I thought too. Which makes me wish that there were something *clear cut* and in layman's terms so that some people will stop giving out misinformation.

Thanks for the clarification... i hope this weeds out the confusion.

[PachucoBro 3]

I swear you guys are killing me... ok to the person who reposted from the SSA.gov. You are reading the wrong parts to prove that you CAN work legally during the first 90 days. STOP TRYING TO PROVE ME WRONG AND SEE IF YOU CAN PROVE ME RIGHT!

From the first link...

My immigration document shows K-1. How do I get a work Social Security number?1st paragraph : The K-1 symbol on your immigration document indicates that you are the fiancé of a U.S. citizen and you are eligible to work. We, therefore, can assign you a number and card so that you can work.

That said K-1 symbol, not a temp EAD stamp.

From the second link...

Do legal aliens need a Social Security number to work?

You are required to get each employee's name and Social Security number and to enter them on Form W-2. (This requirement also applies to resident and nonresident alien employees.) You should ask your employee to show you his or her social security card. The employee is required to show the card, if available. You may, but are not required to, photocopy the Social Security card if the employee provides it.

This says that the employer needs your number, but not necessarily the actual card. Only if it is avbailable and they MAY want to photocopy it, most companies do.

If the employee is a noncitizen, we must verify their documents with the (DHS) before we issue a card. We will issue the card within two days of receiving verification from DHS. Most of the time, we can quickly verify documents online with DHS. If DHS can't verify the documents online, it may take several weeks or months to respond to Social Security's request.

This says that the SS Administration verifies with the DHS that the alien is able to work. SSA WILL NOT give you a SS card that says "VALID with DHS Approval" UNLESS you truly can work. Therefore when you go get your SS card the SSA is doing those checks. The Employer does not need to do anything else.

Employers may hire foreign workers who have applied for and are waiting to receive Social Security numbers and cards. The employee may work while the Social Security number application is being processed. If your employee applied for an SSN but does not have it when you must file Form W-2, enter "Applied for" on the form. When the employee receives the SSN, file Form W-2c, Corrected Wage and Tax Statement, to show the employee's SSN.

This says that even if you don't have your number OR your card you CAN be employ an alien. You just have to make sure you get the number within some certain period of time that employers have to abide by. If you as the alien don't do it you could lose your job because the employer must have that info to pay you legally.

From the third link...

What types of Social Security cards does SSA issue?

3. The third type of card bears, in addition to the individual's name and Social Security number, the legend” "VALID FOR WORK ONLY WITH DHS AUTHORIZATION." We issue this card to people with DHS permission to work temporarily in the United States.

If you are a noncitizen, we must verify your documents with DHS before we issue a SSN card.

This says once again that the SS Administration is the one verifying you can legally work. They do this by checking with the DHS system. Otherwise they will issue the type of card listed in #2, the one not valid for work purposes.

C'mon people this isn't rocket science and I am not just blatantly throwing out information that I have freshly pulled out of my *ss. I have first hand experience of going through the steps and asking each authority in the matter lots of questions so that I CAN be informed of how it works.

It would also stand to reason that if you guys never tried to get employment during those first 90 days how is it you DO KNOW that it can't be done? Did you try? Did you make trips to the SSA or the state offices? or the DHS? to find out all you could?

C'mon... flame down and start reading what I am saying. Whether my other transgressions are going to send me to H*ll is irrelevant. The parts about legal employment is stuff I have researched and completed first hand so my wife COULD work legally for as long as possible.

[Dr_LHA 3]

Quote the SSA all you like. Employers are required to get their employees to sign an I-9 when starting work. The requirements for legal work are laid out in the I-9.

http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:p25M6H...t=clnk&cd=2 (text)

http://www.uscis.gov/files/form/i-9.pdf (pdf)

Does your wife have anything listed in "List A" on page 3 of the I-9. If not, she's not working legally.

Edited December 21, 2006 by dr_lha

[Kez/JWolf 6]

You can post links to all of the SSA site if you want to it still does not change the fact that yes a K1 visa is work authorized but to comply with the requirments of the I-9 that all employers have to complete you also need an EAD.... that could be a temp stamp valid for 90 days or a full EAD valid for a year....

Having a SSN does not give you an EAD.... that is why your SSN card will have "VALID FOR WORK ONLY WITH DHS AUTHORIZATION." stamped on it.... to show your employer than you need aditional evidence of your Employment Authorization.... ie. a stamp on your I-94 or an EAD card...

Maybe it you that is not understanding....

Kez

[Yodrak 7]

PachucoBro,

This is not correct, on two points:

- K2, K3, and K4 are not employment authorized incident to status as K1 is, and

- you are mis-stating what item 4 says, it says that the I-94 must indicate employment authorization - that is, it must bear an employment authorization stamp.

See M-274, the USCIS Handbook for Employers, for additional information including a list of visa types that do not need the employment authorization stamp. The K visas are not on the list.

Yodrak

.....

LIST A - All you need is item 4. An unexpired Passport with the EAD stamp (supposedly still given at JFK) OR the I-94 that has an unexpired work authorization, which is ANY K Visa.

.....

[Yodrak 7]

PachucoBro,

I swear you guys are killing me... ok to the person who reposted from the SSA.gov. You are reading the wrong parts to prove that you CAN work legally during the first 90 days. STOP TRYING TO PROVE ME WRONG AND SEE IF YOU CAN PROVE ME RIGHT!

The problem is, you are wrong.

From the first link...

My immigration document shows K-1. How do I get a work Social Security number?1st paragraph : The K-1 symbol on your immigration document indicates that you are the fiancé of a U.S. citizen and you are eligible to work. We, therefore, can assign you a number and card so that you can work.

That said K-1 symbol, not a temp EAD stamp.

This says that the SSA can assign a SS number and issue a SS card. It does not say that you can be employed without having an EAD.

From the second link...

Do legal aliens need a Social Security number to work?

You are required to get each employee's name and Social Security number and to enter them on Form W-2. (This requirement also applies to resident and nonresident alien employees.) You should ask your employee to show you his or her social security card. The employee is required to show the card, if available. You may, but are not required to, photocopy the Social Security card if the employee provides it.

This says that the employer needs your number, but not necessarily the actual card. Only if it is avbailable and they MAY want to photocopy it, most companies do.

The USCIS says, emphatically, that an employer must see the SS card.

If the employee is a noncitizen, we must verify their documents with the (DHS) before we issue a card. We will issue the card within two days of receiving verification from DHS. Most of the time, we can quickly verify documents online with DHS. If DHS can't verify the documents online, it may take several weeks or months to respond to Social Security's request.

This says that the SS Administration verifies with the DHS that the alien is able to work. SSA WILL NOT give you a SS card that says "VALID with DHS Approval" UNLESS you truly can work. Therefore when you go get your SS card the SSA is doing those checks. The Employer does not need to do anything else.

This says that SSA can assign a SS number and issue a SS card. It does not say that a person can be employed without having an EAD.

Employers may hire foreign workers who have applied for and are waiting to receive Social Security numbers and cards. The employee may work while the Social Security number application is being processed. If your employee applied for an SSN but does not have it when you must file Form W-2, enter "Applied for" on the form. When the employee receives the SSN, file Form W-2c, Corrected Wage and Tax Statement, to show the employee's SSN.

This says that even if you don't have your number OR your card you CAN be employ an alien. You just have to make sure you get the number within some certain period of time that employers have to abide by. If you as the alien don't do it you could lose your job because the employer must have that info to pay you legally.

Correct. But this addresses the issue of having a SS card. It does not address the issue of having an EAD.

From the third link...

What types of Social Security cards does SSA issue?

3. The third type of card bears, in addition to the individual's name and Social Security number, the legend" "VALID FOR WORK ONLY WITH DHS AUTHORIZATION." We issue this card to people with DHS permission to work temporarily in the United States.

If you are a noncitizen, we must verify your documents with DHS before we issue a SSN card.

This says once again that the SS Administration is the one verifying you can legally work. They do this by checking with the DHS system. Otherwise they will issue the type of card listed in #2, the one not valid for work purposes.

No it does not. It says only that the SSA must verify your EA status in order to assign a SS Number and issue a SS card. It says nothing about what an employer must do to verify your EA status. What an employer must do and what the SSA must do are two different things.

Yodrak

Edited December 21, 2006 by Yodrak