THIS is how you reform immigration

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

I think you mean H1-B. I'm very familiar with the H1-B program. It's a scam. It's a way for large companies to exploit foreign workers and pay them peanuts. All the while doing it on U.S. soil. Did you know it's next to impossible to change jobs from one company to another while on an H1-B? These H1-B workers in most cases work for large consulting firms that then hire them out to tech companies. You don't want to work 12 hours and get paid for 8? No problem, you're fired. As far as offering the jobs to American workers first, that's simply a joke. The corporations pay these "employment" then the agencies pay the workers. After they take their cut of course. So take a company like TATA consulting. They sponsor an H1B worker form India. That worker comes to the U.S. via H1-B. TATA has a job waiting for them at ABC tech company as a software developer. TATA collects $75 an hour from ABC and pays the worker $35 an hour with no benefits. You want to complain? Or try switching jobs? Tough $hit. Your visa is tied to TATA. No job with TATA, no H1-B.

I've worked with lots of H1-B visa holders. In fact the team I was a part of from 2008-2010 was entirely H1-B except for myself. Keep in mind the massive unemployment during this time.

That's exactly how it goes down. It is a big scam.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Either way, it is inevitable. You cannot artificially force companies to hire only certain people at a set wage. That's not how capitalism works, or else it isn't capitalism. If you remove the illegal workforce or do away with the H1-B system, then these companies will simply move overseas so they can keep the labor pay the same. Which they have done. There really isn't a solution here other than to just end restrictions on artificial borders and allow what is already occurring to occur. At least, like I say, legalizing the residents will get them paying into the tax system like everyone else and give them rights. Other than that, the economy is going to remain as is, whether we like it or not. America is no longer the gated community that it once was when the world's economy wasn't as connected or so one sided in favor or U.S. manufacturing. Those days are long gone and simply will not return. We can either accept that with dignity or go down swinging.

How do you move housekeeping and landscaping jobs overseas? Or dishwashers? Or food prep workers in restaurants? How about roofers, carpenters and dry-wall installers? Corporations will move them overseas? Really? That'll be interesting.

Don't get me wrong, I am all in favor of legalizing the migrants that are here. There's no other practical way of dealing with the issue. But what you suggest is precisely what spurs a lot of the opposition - namely that businesses will always hire illegals workers so they can pay below market rates and have these people work at below market standards. That means that once we legalize the folks that are currently here illegally, the next big wave will follow because businesses demand that illegal labor which the immigration reform bill would take away at once. If that's the case, I'd rather keep the illegal workforce we currently have illegal as to avoid the next wave of 20 million illegal migrants coming here.

[Bugs 455]

How do you move housekeeping and landscaping jobs overseas? Or dishwashers? Or food prep workers in restaurants? How about roofers, carpenters and dry-wall installers? Corporations will move them overseas? Really? That'll be interesting.

Don't get me wrong, I am all in favor of legalizing the migrants that are here. There's no other practical way of dealing with the issue. But what you suggest is precisely what spurs a lot of the opposition - namely that businesses will always hire illegals workers so they can pay below market rates and have these people work at below market standards. That means that once we legalize the folks that are currently here illegally, the next big wave will follow because businesses demand that illegal labor which the immigration reform bill would take away at once. If that's the case, I'd rather keep the illegal workforce we currently have illegal as to avoid the next wave of 20 million illegal migrants coming here.

Sure, there are many low wage jobs that cannot be moved. I never stated otherwise. But many can. If not, then companies will find other ways to save. My point is, forcing companies to only hire Americans at a set wage will have consequences that we don't necessarily want.

Think about it. If we force all these companies to hire only Americans, and at a set wage at that, then this will most certainly drive up prices, move the companies overseas, or hire other illegal immigrants, like you say. There is no way that the companies will see their profits shrink, as that is contrary to their primary purpose of existence.

I say just open the borders so there is no such thing as an illegal immigrant. Such a move will not hurt the economy as it is already a world economy, and just get anyone residing here and working here to pay into the tax system, adding to the government revenue and offsetting any cost of receiving the same rights that all of us legal residents do.

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

http://news.yahoo.com/7-eleven-cracks-down-franchisees-federal-authorities-seize-012317502.html

NONE of the proposed immigration changes are needed and neither is any further border protection. It is all smoke and mirrors to conscript new Democrat voters and slaves for Republicans business owners to profit from.

CLOSE DOWN the business of ANY employer that exploits illegals and the entore roblem will vanish, the people held for exploitation will self deport back to where they can live a decent life in a decent job.

Do it early. Do it often. Shut them down, padlock the door. It is not necessary to deport 11 million illegal aliens, it is only necessary to lock out a few hundred businesses. Americans, or even LEGAL immigrants (I am always amused that only illegal Mexicans will do these jobs...not LEGAL Mexicans) WILL do these jobs when they are paid properly and receive benefits and good working conditions. YES it will cost employers more.

These people are not hired because they are the best roofers, landscapers and barn cleaners in the world, they are not hired because their legal countrymen will not do the same work, they are hired because they are exploited to avoid costs and increase profits to "the 1%"

"legalizing" 11 million of them will simply raise the cost of employing them without offering the employer any further skills or abilities in return. Suddenly the cost of that illegal employee doubles or triples when he becomes legal. Right. He gets laid off, and the employer hires another illegal to take his place for the lower cost.

"they are only doing the work Americans won't do" is the biggest crock of sh*t ever cooked up. They are doing the work for less than minimum wage, no benefits, no protections, no workman's comp, no unemployment insurance. Americans and legal immigrants will gladly do this work for proper pay and benefits

The truth sounds good on my ears. Amen Brother. Tell it... Attack the people hiring illegals had and fast. No jobs, no illegals no need for militarized borders.

On one point I will disagree. In my last job I had several illegals working in the plant.. They worked rings around the locals. They were paid the same crappy wages.

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

If you force a consumer base of 11 million people out of the country, how could it not? And if all the compaines that hire these workers see their workforce leave, how would it not? You say that Americans all want these jobs, which I find hard to believe (or we wouldn't see such an inflix of HB-1 workers, as compaines are required to offer those jobs to Americans first), but even if that is the case, then their higher salaries will result in higher prices for the consumer, so how could it not?

It's a worldwide economy my friend. I'm not saying that your solution is a bad one, just that it would hurt the economy in ways that you probably wouldn't have imagined. I'm not particularly supportive of that kind of damage and really don't mind seeing all these people around, so why not legalize them and have them contribute to the tax base?

A large part of the 11 million are sucking up Govt resources, paying little to no taxes and sending large chunks of their income back to Mexico. Hardly good for our economy.

T

Sure, there are many low wage jobs that cannot be moved. I never stated otherwise. But many can. If not, then companies will find other ways to save. My point is, forcing companies to only hire Americans at a set wage will have consequences that we don't necessarily want.

Think about it. If we force all these companies to hire only Americans, and at a set wage at that, then this will most certainly drive up prices, move the companies overseas, or hire other illegal immigrants, like you say. There is no way that the companies will see their profits shrink, as that is contrary to their primary purpose of existence.

I say just open the borders so there is no such thing as an illegal immigrant. Such a move will not hurt the economy as it is already a world economy, and just get anyone residing here and working here to pay into the tax system, adding to the government revenue and offsetting any cost of receiving the same rights that all of us legal residents do.

Open the borders. ?? You serious. We would be a 3rd world overpopulated shat hole in no time.

[Bugs 455]

A large part of the 11 million are sucking up Govt resources, paying little to no taxes and sending large chunks of their income back to Mexico. Hardly good for our economy.

T

Which is EXACTLY why I say to legalize them and make them pay those taxes.

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

Americans are too lazy and want to be paid too much money for no effort.

Americans would go to work,if the Gov't would not fund you to sit on your #######. If that belly got to rumbling, they would work.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Which is EXACTLY why I say to legalize them and make them pay those taxes.

Doesn't end there, though. They are all of a sudden also due regular wages and working conditions. In other words, they are due what would be due an American worker. So then what do those businesses that thrive off or survive only on the exploitation of their illegal status do?

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

+1

The idea that closing businesses that "exploit" illegals would solve the immigration problem is ridiculous. First of all, most illegals would not return to where they came from, even if they were forced to beg for money or steal. Even a crappy life in the US may be better than they had back home.

BTW-I think you meant "employ", not exploit. Nobody is exploiting anybody. These workers are working on their own free will, nobody is forcing them. Just because you wouldn't work for a certain wage or under certain conditions doesn't equate to exploitation. In the US, we have become a bunch of bleeding hearts worrying about others being exploited, even though they aren't complaining.

Exactly who would be responsible for closing down all these businesses? It's not hundreds, it's many thousands across the US. And if you happened to close down all the businesses, I wonder who would do the work that illegals now do. Americans? I'm sure they would at $20/hr with full benefits and 4 weeks paid vacation, maybe. Guess who would end up paying for it, the consumer.

I sometimes wonder whether people just read something and they accept it without actually thinking about it. I've done it myself a time or two, but it's always good to think about it before you start telling people about it.

I have 25 years of industrial management experience and have worked and employed every kind of worker from illegal Minuimum wage to people that made 80K + per year

You are flat wrong.

Doesn't end there, though. They are all of a sudden also due regular wages and working conditions. In other words, they are due what would be due an American worker. So then what do those businesses that thrive off or survive only on the exploitation of their illegal status do?

Then what with the next wave of 11 million ?/

[Bugs 455]

A large part of the 11 million are sucking up Govt resources, paying little to no taxes and sending large chunks of their income back to Mexico. Hardly good for our economy.

T

Open the borders. ?? You serious. We would be a 3rd world overpopulated shat hole in no time.

Such is the fear that drives this debate.

3rd world country? We wouldn't be any different than the way it is now. People come here anyways.

The inevitable decline of the U.S. as a political-economic superpower will be the result of many things, but that isn't one of them.

Edited June 22, 2013 by Leon & Mylen

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

Such is the fear that drives this debate.

3rd world country? We wouldn't be any different than the way it is now. People come here anyways.

The ineveitable decline of the U.S. as a political-economic superpower will be the result of many things, but that isn't one of them.

If we swung the borders open millions per month would flock here. You are sooo wrong. I am sure if the borders opened I would have 5 or 6 in my house inside of a month.

[Bugs 455]

If we swung the borders open millions per month would flock here. You are sooo wrong. I am sure if the borders opened I would have 5 or 6 in my house inside of a month.

Millions haven't flocked here? And where would the jobs for these millions be? If the magnets are there, they will come regardless, and have. If they are not there, they won't. As the OP stated, and you stated. You are already seeing the result of your paranoia. It isn't as bad as you think it will be. If we are a third world country, they wouldn't come here. End of story. Do you see people flocking to Mexico?

[Bugs 455]

Doesn't end there, though. They are all of a sudden also due regular wages and working conditions. In other words, they are due what would be due an American worker. So then what do those businesses that thrive off or survive only on the exploitation of their illegal status do?

Go overseas or drive up prices. I don't know what you are trying to say. I mean what is your solution? I don't think there really is one, other than to just go with the flow and accept the inevitable here. Like the war on drugs, it is a futile cause, in my opinion.

[Karee 4,190]

Ever wonder why we're not flooded with illegal immigrant from Canada? I mean after all it's the longest un-protected border in the world. Reason why? Canada has their $hit together. Mexico doesn't. Why should we pay for some other country's mismanagement? The Mariel boatlift comes to mind. Who's going to come to the U.S. with these open borders? It's not gonna be the best and brightest our neighbors to the south have to offer, I'll guarantee that. Those folks probably already qualify for some legal status. No, it's gonna be the folks that can't make it in Mexico and other countries south. If you think American wages are low now, open that border and see what happens.

Edited June 22, 2013 by Karee

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

Millions haven't flocked here? And where would the jobs for these millions be? If the magnets are there, they will come regardless, and have. If they are not there, they won't. As the OP stated, and you stated. You are already seeing the result of your paranoia. It isn't as bad as you think it will be. If we are a third world country, they wouldn't come here. End of story. Do you see people flocking to Mexico?

Exactly they would stop coming after we are flooded and the new arrivals are all working and our unemployment is 40%. Then what

Why are they not flooding here ??

Maybe because the borders are porous but not open. The 5 or 6 I mentioned that would be in my house within a month. They can't even get a tourist Visa to come visit right now. Their border is 9,000 miles from ours. How do you propose they get here ?