An Upside of Immigration Inforcement

[Jenn! 918]

If you're going to post numbers, at least post the right ones. In 2005, when my hardship letter was written, the per capita GDP of Mexico, according to the CIA World Factbook, was $9,600.

I took the numbers right out of the CIA World Factbook. It says $10,000, not $9,600.

Well I just checked myself and it does, in fact, say $10,000. I'm just trying to figure out why it would have changed. Our lawyer wrote this in the last half of last year-is it really possible that the GDP would have had a 4% increase in such a short period of time? That doesn't make sense to me. I also noticed that their unemployment figure had changed from what was stated previously...well anyway, I stand corrected. It does in fact say $10,000.

I would imagine that figures are updated periodically for inflation...

[Ban Hammer 13,346]

Even if it is $10,000, is it just me, or does that not really sound like a whole lot? Particularly put up next to ours right around $40,100. And who all is making this $10,000? To take this down to real life examples, I can definitely relate to the US figure-that sounds about right to me, I know there's plenty of individuals who make right about that much (myself included, and I'm really not all that special) and plenty who make more, as well as those who make less. Then we have this Mexico figure. I just did a quick calculation of Javier's weekly salary multiplied by 52 weeks in a year and came up with $4,160, which is about half of that supposed per capita GDP. And, from my (limited, but concrete) experience, what he makes down there is fairly well average. I just think it's interesting that what I consider "average" for this country, pretty much matches up to what our actual GDP per capita is, whereas the reality of average for Mexico is less than half of their per capita GDP. I just think that the numbers we're seeing there are not a good reflection of the MAJORITY reality down there. I am well aware that there are plenty of wealthy Mexicans, including politicians and actors...

people in the usa live on 10k a year or less too. i don't see them crossing into mexico or canada

[mawilson 2,133]

I would imagine that figures are updated periodically for inflation...

Possibly.... if the 2005 figures are quoted in "today's dollars"

You're so smart, Jenn!

[Jenn! 918]

I would imagine that figures are updated periodically for inflation...

Possibly.... if the 2005 figures are quoted in "today's dollars"

You're so smart, Jenn!

I think they must be in today's dollars for comparison's sake, since the year of the estimate varies by country.

Tell me again, Mark!

[Traviesa 0]

People cross over to Mexico all the time. What always happens whenever someone escapes from prison or is yet to be caught for a crime-we always hear that they may have fled to Mexico. I heard a country music song about this very thing a few months ago-the "gringo" like killed someone and then headed over to Mexico and met a "Senorita" and fell in love, and then happy ever after. I mean think about it-why is it that I'm asked every week by people at church if I plan to move to Mexico to be with Javier. Why is it that in our wedding invitations, we have to include a page telling people that they need a passport-face it, Americans are dumb, and for whatever reason, we feel as though we should have the right to go wherever we darn well please, but ain't NOBODY coming into this country undocumented because this is America. If someone crosses over into this country illegally, well they're just a no-good, disrespectful criminal, but an American doing something similar, well, they just made a mistake. "Oh, I didn't know I needed a passport...." please!!!

[mawilson 2,133]

Since when do you need a passport to go to Mexico?

[Traviesa 0]

Since when do you need a passport to go to Mexico?

You do as of now, if you are flying in. As far as driving in/walking over/whatever, the main reason you need one is to get back into the US.

[Ban Hammer 13,346]

Since when do you need a passport to go to Mexico?

george washington is your passport

[Traviesa 0]

Since when do you need a passport to go to Mexico?

george washington is your passport

Yes, please do try that. Just thinking about you being excluded at the US border... Well, you're a gringo, so you'll probably have plenty of luck with the Senoritas (or so you'll assume). lmao.

[Ban Hammer 13,346]

Since when do you need a passport to go to Mexico?

george washington is your passport

Yes, please do try that. Just thinking about you being excluded at the US border... Well, you're a gringo, so you'll probably have plenty of luck with the Senoritas (or so you'll assume). lmao.

he asked about getting into mexico, not the usa

[Hilarious Clinton 452]

People cross over to Mexico all the time. What always happens whenever someone escapes from prison or is yet to be caught for a crime-we always hear that they may have fled to Mexico. I heard a country music song about this very thing a few months ago-the "gringo" like killed someone and then headed over to Mexico and met a "Senorita" and fell in love, and then happy ever after. I mean think about it-why is it that I'm asked every week by people at church if I plan to move to Mexico to be with Javier. Why is it that in our wedding invitations, we have to include a page telling people that they need a passport-face it, Americans are dumb, and for whatever reason, we feel as though we should have the right to go wherever we darn well please, but ain't NOBODY coming into this country undocumented because this is America. If someone crosses over into this country illegally, well they're just a no-good, disrespectful criminal, but an American doing something similar, well, they just made a mistake. "Oh, I didn't know I needed a passport...." please!!!

HUGE, HUGE, HUGE difference in your examples. What's the ratio of illegal Mexicans in the US versus illegal USCs in Mexico? 100,000 to 1? Be honest.

How much international travel have you done yourself?

[Traviesa 0]

Since when do you need a passport to go to Mexico?

george washington is your passport

Yes, please do try that. Just thinking about you being excluded at the US border... Well, you're a gringo, so you'll probably have plenty of luck with the Senoritas (or so you'll assume). lmao.

he asked about getting into mexico, not the usa

The first time I ever went to Mexico, last July, when passports weren't even required yet...the Mexican immigration lady accepted my birth certificate but told me I needn't try returning to Mexico without a passport.

People cross over to Mexico all the time. What always happens whenever someone escapes from prison or is yet to be caught for a crime-we always hear that they may have fled to Mexico. I heard a country music song about this very thing a few months ago-the "gringo" like killed someone and then headed over to Mexico and met a "Senorita" and fell in love, and then happy ever after. I mean think about it-why is it that I'm asked every week by people at church if I plan to move to Mexico to be with Javier. Why is it that in our wedding invitations, we have to include a page telling people that they need a passport-face it, Americans are dumb, and for whatever reason, we feel as though we should have the right to go wherever we darn well please, but ain't NOBODY coming into this country undocumented because this is America. If someone crosses over into this country illegally, well they're just a no-good, disrespectful criminal, but an American doing something similar, well, they just made a mistake. "Oh, I didn't know I needed a passport...." please!!!

HUGE, HUGE, HUGE difference in your examples. What's the ratio of illegal Mexicans in the US versus illegal USCs in Mexico? 100,000 to 1? Be honest.

How much international travel have you done yourself?

You obviously don't know how hard it is to get a Visa to stay in Mexico. Trust me, there's PLENTY of illegal Americans in Mexico. Just because you don't hear about them, doesn't mean they don't exist. If I ever wanted to live with Javier in Mexico, I may very well end up "illegal" because, after seeing their requirements to get a Visa even to just live with my husband, let alone work, I'm not at all confident in the least that I would get one.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

If you're going to post numbers, at least post the right ones. In 2005, when my hardship letter was written, the per capita GDP of Mexico, according to the CIA World Factbook, was $9,600. You may think that $400 doesn't really constitute a big deal, or something worthy of posting, but that kind of exaggeration to try and strengthen an argument tends to weaken it when the reality of things is presented. There's a big difference between $10,000 and $9,600, much more than the literal $400...

Oh yeah, I absolutely agree. $400.00 is a huge difference. Must be. After all, that $400.00 (while only 4% of the $9,600.00 that Mexico logged in 2005) represents about half the per capita GDP for Ethiopia which is at a stunning $900.00. Just thought I'd throw this in here in case you really wanted to talk about horribly poor countries and poverty. In the grand scheme of things, Mexico ain't doing all that bad. It really ain't.

[Traviesa 0]

If you're going to post numbers, at least post the right ones. In 2005, when my hardship letter was written, the per capita GDP of Mexico, according to the CIA World Factbook, was $9,600. You may think that $400 doesn't really constitute a big deal, or something worthy of posting, but that kind of exaggeration to try and strengthen an argument tends to weaken it when the reality of things is presented. There's a big difference between $10,000 and $9,600, much more than the literal $400...

Oh yeah, I absolutely agree. $400.00 is a huge difference. Must be. After all, that $400.00 (while only 4% of the $9,600.00 that Mexico logged in 2005) represents about half the per capita GDP for Ethiopia which is at a stunning $900.00. Just thought I'd throw this in here in case you really wanted to talk about horribly poor countries and poverty. In the grand scheme of things, Mexico ain't doing all that bad. It really ain't.

But isn't this all relative to the cost of living? I would imagine the cost of living in Ethiopia, or in fact many countries in other less developed parts of the world, is significantly lower than ours. Mexico, while being at only a fraction of our GDP per capita, is not proportionately similar in cost of living. Our close border with them has brought a lot of, for lack of a better term, stuff to Mexico that they may not otherwise have had. The three times I've been to visit Javier, I found it NOTICEABLY more difficult to stretch a peso and we would actually run out of money (and that's restricting meals) whereas when I'm home, I never have that problem.

[Alex+R 0]

Alex, they suffer from selective empathy. If you are citizen of an oil rich country then empathy makes for foreign policy.

so while you're feeling all of this altruism, have you done anything financially for mexico? sent them any money? made it a point to purchase goods only made in mexico? supported a child in poverty there?

edit to add: same questions for you, alex

First off, didn't you just get married? Don't you have somewhere better to be?

But as to the question: do you really think me sending them money (not really an option for me to send money to anyone) or give to a Mexican child is actually more useful than supporting free trade? Which, by the way, I do. I buy free-trade items when I can. I believe we as a country should support politicians who believe in this sort of thing. Because one person can make a difference, but frankly it doesn't amount to much in this case.

I think your viewpoint is very short-sighted and actually depressingly defeatist, since I'm sure you know as well as I do that giving a child 10 dollars a day will not help all poor children.