'NY Times' publishes defense of racial segregation in Israel

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Blaming everyone but themselves is and always has been the problem befuddling Palestinian State creation.

Riiiiiiiight.

"It's the Palestinians' fault that Israel illegally occupies and colonizes the West Bank."

"It's the Palestinians' fault that Israel refuses to comply with UN regulations and international law."

"It's the Palestinians' fault that the US provides Israel with diplomatic immunity for its violations and billions in welfare every year, enabling it to continue ignoring not only international law, but the US's own stated foreign policy."

"It's the Palestinians' fault that Zionists decided to take over Palestine and ethnically cleanse most of its native population."

"It's the Palestinians' fault that they have been occupied since 1948."

"It's the Palestinians' fault that for the last 63 years, no matter what they do - peacefully protest, take up arms, or just sit there quietly in a corner and die - Israel has done and continues to do everything it can to prevent a Palestinian state."

I'm sure you will blame the Palestinians again when Israel eventually implodes under its own unsustainability.

[Karee 4,191]

Blaming everyone but themselves is and always has been the problem befuddling Palestinian State creation.

Ahh blaming the victim. She was wearing a short skirt. She had it coming.

[ready4ONE 5,400]

Ahh blaming the victim. She was wearing a short skirt. She had it coming.

Sorry but the Palestinians are not all victim, zero responsibility for both their past and present circumstances. This new propaganda that tries desperately to make that case is not really accurate nor credible.

None of the above means that nothing is Israels fault, nor absolves Israel of past or present misdeeds.

But trying to frame the argument that even though Palestinians have blown any number of chances to form a nation for the first time in history, to simply deny that bitter reality, and claim it's all Israels fault that they haven't instead, is no more than propaganda and getting to be a bit tiresome. It flies in the face of the historical reality.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Sorry but the Palestinians are not all victim, zero responsibility for both their past and present circumstances. This new propaganda that tries desperately to make that case is not really accurate nor credible.

None of the above means that nothing is Israels fault, nor absolves Israel of past or present misdeeds.

But trying to frame the argument that even though Palestinians have blown any number of chances to form a nation for the first time in history, to simply deny that bitter reality, and claim it's all Israels fault that they haven't instead, is no more than propaganda and getting to be a bit tiresome. It flies in the face of the historical reality.

They all sound so wonderful, these talking points. But they are empty - there is no substance behind them.

Palestine has been under illegal occupation since 1948, and since then, has been actively prevented from forming a sovereign state by Israel (along with the collaboration of the US government, due to The Lobby effect.)

However, Palestine has now been internationally recognized as a nation on the 1967 armistice lines. It's Israel that refuses to acknowledge it, or end its occupation and colonization of Palestine - in flagrant violation of international law and conventions to which Israel agreed, and upon which its own recognition as a state was predicated.

Israel continues to seize Palestinian land outside of sovereign Israel (including East Jerusalem,) continues to build illegal settlements in that territory, continues to transfer its civilian population into that territory, and continues to claim that many of these settlements have been unilaterally "annexed" into Israel.

Israel continues to prevent the Palestinian government from functioning as a sovereign government, invading Palestine and kidnapping and imprisoning elected officials at will, even withholding the Palestinians' own tax money from them as a "punitive" measure to manipulate the Palestinians into enforcing Israeli policies.

The reason that there is not a Palestinian state is because Israel has done everything it can to prevent it.

It's ironic, in a way, that Israel's continued arrogance, racism and greed for more land, refusing to abide by the rule of law, are going to be what brings down The Zionist State. The Great Gamble of 1967 was a losing bet, and the Zionists are going to bitterly lament the day they launched that fiasco.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

‘No consequences… ad finitum’ — Reporters reject State Dep’t explanation of US policy on settlements

During last Thursday's briefing by Jen Psaki at the State Department-- video above-- there was a lot of pushback from reporters about the renewal of the alleged peace process in the light of the latest Israeli settlement plans. "No consequences... ad finitum," the reporters said.

Notice the reporters' continual questions about settlement activity and settlers' attacks on Palestinians. Notice a reporter hinting that the U.S. give less aid to Israel:

isn’t part of the problem here that despite the U.S. condemnation of settlement building, the Israelis have absolutely no incentive to stop it? I mean, they know that they’re going to have the U.S. support ad infinitum. And is it – shouldn’t there be consequences?

The reporter continues:

Working with the two sides isn’t actually getting you anywhere. We’re still stuck now where we were sort of 60 years ago. Despite the Secretary’s efforts, the Israelis are still moving forward with plans which you yourself concede are unhelpful.

Notice Matt Lee of the Associated Press at the end saying there are never consequences for Israelis:

so it is then correct that U.S. policy is to – for there to be consequences for the Palestinians if they do things that are unhelpful to the resumption of the peace process, but it is not the U.S. policy to have consequences for the Israelis when they do similar things?

Psaki stammers and brushes her hair back from her forehead a lot.

http://mondoweiss.net/2013/06/consequences-explanation-settlements.html

[ready4ONE 5,400]

Israel is not the only reason that there is no real State of Palestine. You can't start a war, leave and lose the war you started, then claim a right of return.

Historic reality is complicated, but the fact is that all along the line Palestinians have been badly led. And the best opportunity for a new State of Palestine was 1948. Yes Israel has done and continues to do some awful things, but give credit where credit is due.

[GandD 5,966]

However, Palestine has now been internationally recognized as a nation on the 1967 armistice lines. It's Israel that refuses to acknowledge it, or end its occupation and colonization of Palestine - in flagrant violation of international law and conventions to which Israel agreed, and upon which its own recognition as a state was predicated.

Is that this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_Resolution_242

Or is it something else?

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Israel is not the only reason that there is no real State of Palestine. You can't start a war, leave and lose the war you started, then claim a right of return.

Historic reality is complicated, but the fact is that all along the line Palestinians have been badly led. And the best opportunity for a new State of Palestine was 1948. Yes Israel has done and continues to do some awful things, but give credit where credit is due.

What war did the Palestinians start ? They've been under continual invasion and attack from foreign troops since 1947.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Is that this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_Resolution_242

Or is it something else?

242 did not establish the Palestinian state; it called for Israel to withdraw from the Palestinian (and other) territories it was occupying, so that a Palestinian state might be established.

After decades of waiting in vain for Israel to comply with 242, the State of Palestine was officially recognized by the UN General Assembly last November, with borders determined by the pre-1967 armistice lines (the so-called "Green Line.")

Edited June 18, 2013 by Falastin_Qalbi

[GandD 5,966]

242 did not establish the Palestinian state; it called for Israel to withdraw from the Palestinian territory it was occupying, so that a Palestinian state might be established.

After decades of waiting in vain for Israel to comply with 242, the State of Palestine was officially recognized by the UN General Assembly last November, with borders determined by the pre-1967 armistice lines (the so-called "Green Line.")

Ok, that's what I thought. I thought you knew something I didn't. I knew the general assembly recognized Palestine last year. Still full membership from what I recall requires buy in from all security council members.

You think the violence would slow down if the Palestinians were granted a home state?

[Karee 4,191]

I wonder how the U.S. expects to have any credibility in the world when it financially and politically supports ethnic cleansing? I understand most of the U.S. population are just lemmings and follow whatever the press feeds them. I guess most of the rest of of the world doesn't know or doesn't care. Just thinking out loud I guess.

Ok, that's what I thought. I thought you knew something I didn't. I knew the general assembly recognized Palestine last year. Still full membership from what I recall requires buy in from all security council members.
You think the violence would slow down if the Palestinians were granted a home state?

What violence?

[GandD 5,966]

What violence?

All of it. Both sides are humans and there are innocents on both sides.

[PalestineMyHeart 1,897]

Ok, that's what I thought. I thought you knew something I didn't. I knew the general assembly recognized Palestine last year. Still full membership from what I recall requires buy in from all security council members.

You think the violence would slow down if the Palestinians were granted a home state?

The Palestinians have a home state. It's called Palestine. It's been invaded and occupied and colonized by an extremely violent and brutal foreign military force, along with foreign militia groups made up of heavily armed illegal settlers, many of whom are fanatics who think they have the right to not only take all of Palestine, but to use terror tactics to drive Palestinians off their own land.

[Karee 4,191]

All of it. Both sides are humans and there are innocents on both sides.

As far as I can tell there hasn't been any major violence in quite awhile. There's the occasional rockets fired from Gaza. All the recent violence I've seen has been from the Israeli military. Either kicking Israelis off of illegal settlements (pretty rare) or the occasional assault or killing of some Palestinian for no good reason. It's pretty much just a slow creeping expansion of Israeli territory at this point. I don't really follow it that closely.

[GandD 5,966]

The Palestinians have a home state. It's called Palestine. It's been invaded and occupied and colonized by an extremely violent and brutal foreign military force, along with foreign militia groups made up of heavily armed illegal settlers, many of whom are fanatics who think they have the right to not only take all of Palestine, but to use terror tactics to drive Palestinians off their own land.

Ok, relax, that's not what I meant. Do you have a map of what you/Palestine want to see happen? Like, ultimate goal.

As far as I can tell there hasn't been any major violence in quite awhile. There's the occasional rockets fired from Gaza. All the recent violence I've seen has been from the Israeli military. Either kicking Israelis off of illegal settlements (pretty rare) or the occasional assault or killing of some Palestinian for no good reason. It's pretty much just a slow creeping expansion of Israeli territory at this point. I don't really follow it that closely.

Me neither. Fairly ignorant on the subject. Figured I'd probe her for some info since she's all over the subject.