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Filed: Timeline
Posted

Sounds good. If like actions could follow these words...

March 01, 2006, 8:16 a.m.

A Muslim Manifesto

Rejecting the bad.

By Mustafa Akyol & Zeyno Baran

"Who are the moderate Muslims, and why do they not speak up?" After being asked this question over and over again since 9/11, particularly after the Danish cartoon crisis, we decided to propose the following Muslim Manifesto:

Recently, the disrespectful cartoons about Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) published in Jyllands-Posten resulted in an extreme reaction among many Muslims worldwide. While we understand the feelings of our co-religionists, we strongly urge them to refrain from rage and violence.

A zeal for Allah is rightful only when it is expressed in an enlightened manner, since Allah himself has ordained a restrained response. When the early Muslims were mocked by their pagan contemporaries, the Koran ordered not a violent backlash, but rather a civilized disapproval: "When you hear Allah's verses being rejected and mocked at by people, you must not sit with them till they start talking of other things." (Koran 4:140) The Koran also describes Muslims as "those who control their rage and pardon other people, [because] Allah loves the good-doers." (3:134) Therefore all demonstrations against the mockery of Islam should be peaceful. All critiques of Islam should be countered not by threats and violence, but by rational counter-argument.

We also believe that terrorist acts can never be justified or excused. None of the challenges Muslims face, such as oppression or military occupation, can justify attacks against non-combatants. In the Holy Koran, Allah orders Muslims to "never let hatred of anyone lead you into the sin of deviating from justice." (5:8) The true Islamic sense of justice is well-established in the traditions of the Prophet Muhammad (pbuh); even in time of war — let alone peace — Muslim soldiers should never "kill the old, the infant, the child, or the woman." Those who do so are not martyrs, but cold-blooded murderers.

Supported by the Koran's affirmation that "there is no compulsion in religion" (2:256), we cherish religious liberty. Every human has the right to believe or not to believe in Islam or in any other religion All Muslims furthermore have the right to reject and change their religion if desired. No state, community or individual has a right to impose Islam on others. People should accept and practice Islam not because they are forced to do so, but because they believe in its teachings.

We support and cherish democracy — not because we reject the sovereignty of the Almighty over people, but because we believe that this sovereignty is manifested in the general will of people in a democratic and pluralistic society. We do not accept theocratic rule-not because we do not wish to obey Allah, but because theocratic rule inevitably becomes rule by fallible (and sometimes corrupt and misguided) humans in the name of the infallible God.

We accept the legitimacy of the secular state and the secular law. Islamic law, or sharia, was developed at a time when Muslims were living in homogenous communities. In the modern world, virtually all societies are pluralistic, consisting of different faiths and of different perceptions of each faith, including Islam. In this pluralistic setting, a legal system based on a particular version of a single religion cannot be imposed on all citizens. Thus, a single secular law, open to all religions but based on none, is strongly needed.

We believe that women have the same inalienable rights as men. We strongly denounce laws and attitudes in some Islamic societies that exclude women from society by denying them the rights of education, political participation and the individual pursuit of happiness. Like men, women should have the right to decide how they will live, dress, travel, marry and divorce; if they do not enjoy these rights, they are clearly second-class citizens.

We believe that there is no contradiction between religious and national identities. Any Muslim should be able to embrace the citizenship of any modern secular state while maintaining feelings of spiritual solidarity with the umma, the global Muslim community.

We regard Christianity and Judaism as sister faiths in the common family of Abrahamic monotheism. We strongly denounce anti-Semitism, which has been alien to Islam for many centuries but which unfortunately has gained popularity among some Muslims in recent decades. We accept Israel's right to exist, as well as the justified aspiration of the Palestinian people for a sovereign state and hope that a just two-state solution in Israel/Palestine will bring peace to the Holy Land.

In short, we strongly disagree with and condemn those who promote or practice tyranny and violence in the name of Islam. We hope that their misguided deeds will not blacken our noble religion — which is indeed a path to God and a call for peace.

We encourage Muslim political, social, community and business leaders to contact us at info@muslimmanifesto.org to sign onto the Manifesto so that the authentic peaceful and civilized message of Islam will be heard.

— Mustafa Akyol is a writer and journalist based in Turkey; Zeyno Baran is director of International Security and Energy Programs at The Nixon Center.

Source

Posted

That's great. :thumbs: I hope this document, and its authors and signatories, get some good press.

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--Monty Python and the Holy Grail

Filed: Timeline
Posted (edited)
March 01, 2006, 8:16 a.m.

A Muslim Manifesto

Rejecting the bad.

Supported by the Koran's affirmation that "there is no compulsion in religion" (2:256), we cherish religious liberty. Every human has the right to believe or not to believe in Islam or in any other religion. All Muslims furthermore have the right to reject and change their religion if desired. No state, community or individual has a right to impose Islam on others. People should accept and practice Islam not because they are forced to do so, but because they believe in its teachings.

I wonder what the authors stance is on the notorious jaziya tax. This is a tax levied on non-Muslims who reside in a Muslim state. It's aim is to incentivize conversion to Islam. Ironically, the jaziya tax is probably the biggest reason the Muslim emperors of Mughal India failed to convert the Hindus of India en masse to Islam. Resentment against the tax was so widespread and universal that it had the exact opposite effect.

Also, how does the author reconcile the statement "All Muslims ... have the right to reject ... their religion" with the Quranic (Muslim posters, correct me if I'm wrong on this point) requirement to put apostates (defined as any Muslim who rejects Islam) to death.

Edited by Agent Smith

Man is made by his belief. As he believes, so he is.

Filed: Timeline
Posted
Also, how does the author reconcile the statement "All Muslims ... have the right to reject ... their religion" with the Quranic (Muslim posters, correct me if I'm wrong on this point) requirement to put apostates (defined as any Muslim who rejects Islam) to death.

I honestly don't expect too many "authorities" to sign onto the deal. :no:

Posted

the moderates are probably not from these countries ..most likely western countries...

Peace to All creatures great and small............................................

But when we turn to the Hebrew literature, we do not find such jokes about the donkey. Rather the animal is known for its strength and its loyalty to its master (Genesis 49:14; Numbers 22:30).

Peppi_drinking_beer.jpg

my burro, bosco ..enjoying a beer in almaty

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/index.ph...st&id=10835

Posted
the moderates are probably not from these countries ..most likely western countries...

I have thought about it over and over about the moderates and the likes and come to one conclusion: its the economy stupid. With poor economies of these countries and no sense of social or economic responsibility, these people have too much time on their hand. The generation I grew up with was told that the rich probably go rich by robbing or stealing someone or if someone is successful, its a result of them having contacts in high places. Never was a persons success ever attributed to his or her own determination, motivation of hard work. So consider this untill one comes to the west, they feel that they are powerless and have no control over their lives. The fundamental flaw is simply that people are not held accountable for their own actions. People live in extended family system, lounging around all day, cheap medicine, almost free hospitals, cheap higher education. Result –an empty mind is a devils workshop.

So what is the solution that west can provide: go right to the core. Stop subsidizing medication. If they want hospitals to function, tell them to do their own research, find cures and thats it. If they want english films, tell them to produce it on their own. If they want the internet, tell them to build it themselves. Yet if they produce cloth and its good quality, bring it western markets. Export controls and ease of imports will put people to work and all the problems will gradually fade

Filed: AOS (apr) Country: Ecuador
Timeline
Posted

the moderates are probably not from these countries ..most likely western countries...

I have thought about it over and over about the moderates and the likes and come to one conclusion: its the economy stupid. With poor economies of these countries and no sense of social or economic responsibility, these people have too much time on their hand. The generation I grew up with was told that the rich probably go rich by robbing or stealing someone or if someone is successful, its a result of them having contacts in high places. Never was a persons success ever attributed to his or her own determination, motivation of hard work. So consider this untill one comes to the west, they feel that they are powerless and have no control over their lives. The fundamental flaw is simply that people are not held accountable for their own actions. People live in extended family system, lounging around all day, cheap medicine, almost free hospitals, cheap higher education. Result –an empty mind is a devils workshop.

So what is the solution that west can provide: go right to the core. Stop subsidizing medication. If they want hospitals to function, tell them to do their own research, find cures and thats it. If they want english films, tell them to produce it on their own. If they want the internet, tell them to build it themselves. Yet if they produce cloth and its good quality, bring it western markets. Export controls and ease of imports will put people to work and all the problems will gradually fade

Wow.. and here I thought the radical fundamentalists were pointing to western thought and beliefs as the core problem in their lives and hence we had to be destroyed to make their lives better. Who'd have thunk it was just free medicine :huh::huh:

James & Sara - Aug 12, 05

Humanity... destined to pass the baton shortly.

Filed: Timeline
Posted
The generation I grew up with was told that the rich probably go rich by robbing or stealing someone or if someone is successful, its a result of them having contacts in high places. Never was a persons success ever attributed to his or her own determination, motivation of hard work.

Good point. This problem applies to many other developing countries as well, not just Muslim ones. I have heard the same thing from my own parents and grandparents and their peers in India.

the moderates are probably not from these countries ..most likely western countries...

I have thought about it over and over about the moderates and the likes and come to one conclusion: its the economy stupid. With poor economies of these countries and no sense of social or economic responsibility, these people have too much time on their hand. The generation I grew up with was told that the rich probably go rich by robbing or stealing someone or if someone is successful, its a result of them having contacts in high places. Never was a persons success ever attributed to his or her own determination, motivation of hard work. So consider this untill one comes to the west, they feel that they are powerless and have no control over their lives. The fundamental flaw is simply that people are not held accountable for their own actions. People live in extended family system, lounging around all day, cheap medicine, almost free hospitals, cheap higher education. Result –an empty mind is a devils workshop.

So what is the solution that west can provide: go right to the core. Stop subsidizing medication. If they want hospitals to function, tell them to do their own research, find cures and thats it. If they want english films, tell them to produce it on their own. If they want the internet, tell them to build it themselves. Yet if they produce cloth and its good quality, bring it western markets. Export controls and ease of imports will put people to work and all the problems will gradually fade

Wow.. and here I thought the radical fundamentalists were pointing to western thought and beliefs as the core problem in their lives and hence we had to be destroyed to make their lives better. Who'd have thunk it was just free medicine :huh::huh:

To be fair, sheraz's point isn't that free medicine is the problem, it's that too much free time and not enough work is.

Man is made by his belief. As he believes, so he is.

Filed: Timeline
Posted (edited)

During years of seeing numerous shows about the life of Jesus and Christianity on channels such as the History Channel I often wished that they'd show something comparable about Muhammed and Islam so that I could learn and understand something about that religion.

Last night they did - a two-part, two hours in total, presentation on the History Channel. It was very enlightening. And it appears that many modern Muslims have distorted their prophet's teachings and their religion just as many modern Christians have.

Yodrak

Sounds good. If like actions could follow these words...
March 01, 2006, 8:16 a.m.

A Muslim Manifesto

Rejecting the bad.

By Mustafa Akyol & Zeyno Baran

.....

Source

Edited by Yodrak
Filed: Timeline
Posted
To be fair, sheraz's point isn't that free medicine is the problem, it's that too much free time and not enough work is.

There too much free time and not much work and/or hope in Ethiopia which is arguably much less fortunate (economically) than many of the places where radicalism is an issue. There's not much radicalism there, though. There are many places, I'm afraid that one could say the same about. It's not just the economy. :no:

Filed: AOS (apr) Country: Ecuador
Timeline
Posted
To be fair, sheraz's point isn't that free medicine is the problem, it's that too much free time and not enough work is.

Oh I got the point... thing is... many people have free time and not enough work ... not all go around trying to destroy what they actually want for themselves. It basically comes down to power trips and the blame game, and who can get the most power out of it. And that crosses every border/nationality/religion/creed/gender/skin color/etc....

Idle hands and not enough work? What about education? If they pass out free medicine, why not free education... oh wait... because if you educate the populace.. they question your authority (power) and start to realize that they can't blame someone else for their own failure... regardless of what american lawyers tell the world. Our own culture is far from perfect I know... but seriously.. step up and own to your own mistakes. And quit doing the whole "eye for an eye" routine... every modern religion I know of teaches forgiveness.. this old tribalism is going to nuke the planet back to primordial vapor in the vacuum of space...

James & Sara - Aug 12, 05

Humanity... destined to pass the baton shortly.

Filed: Country: United Kingdom
Timeline
Posted
I wonder what the authors stance is on the notorious jaziya tax. This is a tax levied on non-Muslims who reside in a Muslim state. It's aim is to incentivize conversion to Islam.

Wow what a great idea. We should levy a tax on all religious folks to facilitate their conversion to atheism.

Completely legit and constitutional - they are free to practice whatever religion they want - just have to pay

the tax. It's the American way, baby! LOL :lol:

biden_pinhead.jpgspace.gifrolling-stones-american-flag-tongue.jpgspace.gifinside-geico.jpg
Filed: Timeline
Posted

I wonder what the authors stance is on the notorious jaziya tax. This is a tax levied on non-Muslims who reside in a Muslim state. It's aim is to incentivize conversion to Islam.

Wow what a great idea. We should levy a tax on all religious folks to facilitate their conversion to atheism.

Completely legit and constitutional - they are free to practice whatever religion they want - just have to pay

the tax. It's the American way, baby! LOL :lol:

Wikipedia has a good writeup on this special tax at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jizya

Turns out they spell it Jizya or Jizyah. In Indian history textbooks, it is spelled Jaziya.

An interesting excerpt from the Wikipedia article...

The imposition of jizya upon non-Muslims is mandated by Sura 9.29 of the Qur'an.

Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold forbidden that which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizyah with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

Man is made by his belief. As he believes, so he is.

Posted

Muslim countries today can be compared to a unionanized steel mill or automaker. The unions were good at one time. The owners made concessions to labor and were being good citizens by giving great medical and pension benefits, unemployment benefits, job banks etc. But as the world went global, the companies that changed survived. Those like GM could not change. The union doesnt want to give up its power. They dont want to loose the benefits. Unions are out of sync with the labor requirements. Forklift drivers at GM cannot expect to be paid $85000 + benefits(yes its true even if you dont believe it). Inefficiences got built up. Cannot fire a union worker. Productivity is slow and the result poor profits for the company and eventually bankruptcy

Same situation in muslim countries. People want cheap food, want to drive new cars, want dirt cheap gasoline (they dont realize that oil is $60; they just think that the govt can waive a magic wand and subsidize it) want television, airtravel etc etc. The socialist idea that all your problems lie with the govt and great you have someone to blame. Parents do this all the time. In my teen yrs, we were given such great pessimistic views about the country by my parents. Yet my friends who stayed behind did get jobs and are successful now. Just as once a company takes a stand against union, like Northwest Airline did, and fires unions, thats when labor comes to their senses. For the case of muslim countries, in case of natural disasters, stop airlifting food and medicine, stop spending on social programs and mass vaccinations. If they were so interested in saving their kids, they would have found a cure. Everything should come with a price tag. No internet, cable tv. Take away the luxury and no loans for the govt. Let the govt tax their people . In muslim countries typically less than 10% of the population will pay any tax. In the 80s everything was blamed on industrialist. In the 90s it was the govt and in the 2000s its the west. Let them work for getting all the benefits of the west. The change will come

Western thoughts and beliefs are: honesty, truthfullness, compassion, opportunity

Actions in muslim countries are: dishonesty, hopeless, no sense of responsibility.

No wonder radical muslims are against western beliefs !!

Filed: Other Country: United Kingdom
Timeline
Posted (edited)
Muslim countries today can be compared to a unionanized steel mill or automaker. The unions were good at one time. The owners made concessions to labor and were being good citizens by giving great medical and pension benefits, unemployment benefits, job banks etc. But as the world went global, the companies that changed survived. Those like GM could not change. The union doesnt want to give up its power. They dont want to loose the benefits. Unions are out of sync with the labor requirements. Forklift drivers at GM cannot expect to be paid $85000 + benefits(yes its true even if you dont believe it). Inefficiences got built up. Cannot fire a union worker. Productivity is slow and the result poor profits for the company and eventually bankruptcy

Same situation in muslim countries. People want cheap food, want to drive new cars, want dirt cheap gasoline (they dont realize that oil is $60; they just think that the govt can waive a magic wand and subsidize it) want television, airtravel etc etc. The socialist idea that all your problems lie with the govt and great you have someone to blame. Parents do this all the time. In my teen yrs, we were given such great pessimistic views about the country by my parents. Yet my friends who stayed behind did get jobs and are successful now. Just as once a company takes a stand against union, like Northwest Airline did, and fires unions, thats when labor comes to their senses. For the case of muslim countries, in case of natural disasters, stop airlifting food and medicine, stop spending on social programs and mass vaccinations. If they were so interested in saving their kids, they would have found a cure. Everything should come with a price tag. No internet, cable tv. Take away the luxury and no loans for the govt. Let the govt tax their people . In muslim countries typically less than 10% of the population will pay any tax. In the 80s everything was blamed on industrialist. In the 90s it was the govt and in the 2000s its the west. Let them work for getting all the benefits of the west. The change will come

Western thoughts and beliefs are: honesty, truthfullness, compassion, opportunity

Actions in muslim countries are: dishonesty, hopeless, no sense of responsibility.

No wonder radical muslims are against western beliefs !!

That's a little naive IMO. If the Bush administration exemplifies 'western thoughts and beliefs' to other nations and cultures (as they themselves claim) I think you'll find we fall more into the latter group than the former.

Socialism is not the root of the worlds evils, and certainly not the root of the problems in the middle-east - you'll have to look deeper than that, and a little further back.

Edited by Fishdude
 

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