immigration debate - family rejected for tourist visa

[Boiler 46,123]

Yes, we do. We as in our family.

That's nice.

[Gosia & Tito 199]

First there is no 30-60-90 rule.. second people like your friend are responsible for making it tough for the rest of them to get visa.

He knowing abused the tourist visa, his father prob got visa for the treatment and he blantantly abused it.

Infact ppl who abuse B1/2 tend to have family and friends here.. in short they have osme ties here in US.

In my very first post, I have put in a suggestion adustion status from B1/2 and VWP should be stopped.

30-60-90 rule: IANAL, but according to http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/87011.pdf, dated Oct 2011, there is such a rule. Even if there isn't one, it seems attorneys use it to advice prospecting adjusters of status.

'Friend': is someone I know from work, yes, I did mention it is not legal, etc; but at the end, is his decision; whether I like it or not, not much I could do. The only reason I know of this is because I had been working the K-1 for my now wife and a question was asked about whether I could provide some answers. Obviosuly, my answers were not what he was looking for, he then went to an attorney who came up with the 30-60-90, which at that point I had thought was urban legend, but I was corrected. The thought of attorneys getting penalized crossed my mind, but since they are using a legal sanctioned means (see link above), I guess they are just doing their job, as much as ethically questionable that can be. The irony of all this is the the illness progressed and father ended up returning to India as the follow up treatment was less expensive, ultimately he passed a few months later.

At that point, one would to ask whether this life and death situation justified the actions taken. I can't say one way or another because I do not really know what I would do if it had been myself in his shoes.

ppl who abuse B1/B2 tend to have family here: exactly and that is the irony of all this thread, the people who would like to visit, do so in the cases noted here because of the relative that is here; and in a number of cases, they "change their mind" about staying here, moreover, because in a number of cases, these are senior people, and do not even need to work as the relative here would provide the room and board while the adjustment (if they even try it) can take years. Of course, not all break the rules, and I'd even say that the majority do return home. My mother in law sister for example, comes and goes, she comes for a few months, to help care for a baby (her grandson), at same time, my inlaw can't get a visa. I'd really like to know what is so freaking different that one gets a visa and the other does not; their situation in terms of ties to the country is nearly the same. The main overall difference: her son in the US has a couple of little childs, while we do not.

Adjust from B1/B2 and VWP: I am 100% with you there, disabling adjusting in those cases will make a big difference I believe. I don't understand why the laws are what they are and provide a way to break laws so easily.

[Gosia & Tito 199]

Anyone who would think that achieving meaningful solutions to our immigration issues will be easy or simple would certainly be naïve. I’m under no such illusions. If you would concentrate your efforts on communicating a constructive idea to your elected representatives instead of arguing with me we would be that much closer to achieving something.

I'd like to propose that all of us here, that will at some point be affected by the seemingly vague and arbitrary rules, submit a petition to the WhiteHouse. DOn't know how many are we here, but the moderators could provide a number. Immigration reform is being discussed now, if there is a time to bring this up, it is now.

[CC90 90]

I'd like to propose that all of us here, that will at some point be affected by the seemingly vague and arbitrary rules, submit a petition to the WhiteHouse. DOn't know how many are we here, but the moderators could provide a number. Immigration reform is being discussed now, if there is a time to bring this up, it is now.

The rules are designed to be vague. The idea is to allow subjective decisions. If there is a predefined checklist or guideline of any kind that results in approval/denial (certain money in bank account, ties to show, etc.), it can and will be circumvented.

Other countries like the UK and Schengen states have specific guidelines, so they are very popular destinations and are seen as much easier to illegally immigrate to than the US. As such, it can be argued that the system does work.

[CC90 90]

Adjust from B1/B2 and VWP: I am 100% with you there, disabling adjusting in those cases will make a big difference I believe. I don't understand why the laws are what they are and provide a way to break laws so easily.

While I agree that the B1/B2 should be excluded, it will NOT have an effect on the illegal immigrants and it will and should not affect the presumption of immigrant intent. It will just affect those that have an immediate relative citizen and thus basis to adjust status without trouble.

Those that want to stay illegally have no problem getting a B1/B2 and just living under the radar never adjusting. It is too easy to do.

Living a terrible labor job with low wages is still orders of magnitude better than most of these people's lives back in their home countries.

[Harpa Timsah 13,258]

"Abusing" a B2 is most often NOT about adjusting in the US. We see that on this site and people get all mad, but the real issue, the thing consulates are trying to stop, is people who just plain overstay and never leave. This site is about family immigration, so people are blinded by this aspect, but it's not it.

[Noel194 53]

"Abusing" a B2 is most often NOT about adjusting in the US. We see that on this site and people get all mad, but the real issue, the thing consulates are trying to stop, is people who just plain overstay and never leave. This site is about family immigration, so people are blinded by this aspect, but it's not it.

I disagree. I can tell you of a dozen people I know who are trying to get a parent, sibling, neice, nephew, grandma, third cousing on there half-brothers counsins side etc a tourist visa so they can come to the USA and never leave. There are pleanty of famiy immigration abuse of the B2. The idea is lets get them here and figure the rest out later.

Edited June 25, 2013 by Noel194

[Harpa Timsah 13,258]

I disagree. I can tell you of a dozen people I know who are trying to get a parent, sibling, neice, nephew, grandma, third cousing on there half-brothers counsins side etc a tourist visa so they can come to the USA and never leave. There are pleanty of famiy immigration abuse of the B2. The idea is lets get them here and figure the rest out later.

But thier plan is really to stay illegal aliens, because there is no path to legality for nephews, brothers, etc.

I don't know anyone like that. Are these people Ukrainian?

Edited June 25, 2013 by Harpa Timsah

[Noel194 53]

But thier plan is really to stay illegal aliens, because there is no path to legality for nephews, brothers, etc.

I don't know anyone like that. Are these people Ukrainian?

Thats not true. As long as they enter on a B2 visa they could marry a USC and adjust 10 years later. No mostly from India!

[Harpa Timsah 13,258]

Thats not true. As long as they enter on a B2 visa they could marry a USC and adjust 10 years later. No mostly from India!

Right... but you said it was a family plan because they want to get nephews over, and now you say the real plan is to live as an alien until that time when they meet a USC that they haven't met yet. What about parents? They are divorced?

So that just reinforces the real issue that the consulates deny people who appear to be willing to live in the US as an illegal alien and overstay their visa.

[Boiler 46,123]

I know lots of English people who have worked illegal in the US on a B Visa.

They had no way of staying and adjusting nor were they looking to to do so.

A friend lived and worked in the US for 10 years on a B, he had a comfortable life style, I am sure he told me he played golf 300 times one year.

Lots of those who never had a visa in the first place live in the US with very comfortable life styles.

[Rwlaird 18]

I'd like to propose that all of us here, that will at some point be affected by the seemingly vague and arbitrary rules, submit a petition to the WhiteHouse. DOn't know how many are we here, but the moderators could provide a number. Immigration reform is being discussed now, if there is a time to bring this up, it is now.

I’m glad to see someone stand up and be counted and help make a difference instead of just thinking that the current system is the best we can expect. It sure seems like a petition to the White House couldn’t hurt anything. However, I think that it would be best to concentrate efforts at this stage on Congress. I don’t want to get into my work on this forum but I spent several years working for a member of Congress and now work as a lobbyist so I have some experience in the legislative process. Regardless of what you think about the President or his politics I think most people would agree that he has not shown a propensity to get involved in the details of legislative proposals coming through Congress but seems to prefer to focus on more general themes. Also, petitions are fine but individualized letters are often more effective. I’m also not sure how much of a response you could get on a petition effort since most of the people affected by this probably were just frustrated and gave up without knowing what to do or participating in this forum. They are probably a big number of well-meaning people affected but it seems like some of the most active participants in this forum are argumentative which makes me wonder about their perspective. I mean, who would really want to defend the current ugly system except maybe an immigration attorney because it is good for business.

We really should have gotten started earlier since Congress is debating the bill right now. However, since I have a full time job and a baby – excuses, oh well. It is probably too late to expect anything to happen in the Senate since they are intent on passing the bill as soon as this week. They seem to have set an artificial deadline of July 4th. The House seems to be taking a more deliberate approach with a somewhat slower timetable (which is ironic since it is supposed to be the other way around). It’s still important to contact your elected representatives in both the Senate and the House since each provision will need support from both to make it into the final version of the bill which will eventually be negotiated through both bodies.

If you’re not sure how to contact your members of Congress you can go to House.gov and Senate.gov to look them up by your zip code or state in the top right corner of the page. Each one should have a contact form on their website to send them a letter. Even better, if you want to be most effective send me a private message and I can look up the exact staff person in each office and give you their email address to send it directly to them.

[Rwlaird 18]

The rules are designed to be vague. The idea is to allow subjective decisions. If there is a predefined checklist or guideline of any kind that results in approval/denial (certain money in bank account, ties to show, etc.), it can and will be circumvented.

Other countries like the UK and Schengen states have specific guidelines, so they are very popular destinations and are seen as much easier to illegally immigrate to than the US. As such, it can be argued that the system does work.

Subjective decisions and discretion on the part of the embassy is different than an excessive standard of "presumption of immigrant intent" - ie. presumption of guilt - presumption of having different intentions that the intentions you are declaring according to the type of visa you are seeking.

[Rwlaird 18]

I disagree. I can tell you of a dozen people I know who are trying to get a parent, sibling, neice, nephew, grandma, third cousing on there half-brothers counsins side etc a tourist visa so they can come to the USA and never leave. There are pleanty of famiy immigration abuse of the B2. The idea is lets get them here and figure the rest out later.

Stronger penalties are needed to deter this.

[Boiler 46,123]

There are no penalties, so how can they be stronger?