PRENUPTIAL AGREEMENT

[InHisTime 110]

Hi All.

My fiance and I just discussed about prenuptial agreement...He wants us to have a prenuptial agreement.I know know he loves and trust me...but still I feel sad because its like he is thinking that I might get his money and leave him????I am not after his money ..I love him dearly....and I agreed to what he wants.My question is...Is it natural to have prenuptial agreement in America?I was offended honestly.

I really understand where you are coming from as this is very uncommon issue in the Philippines. In the US it is being practiced especially in cases where valuable assets involve, as we all know that divorce rate is getting higher. It protects couple in the event of such life changing circumtances. People change over time or through the years.

Perhaps you may have read or heard some horrible stories that some USCs or petitioners don't even bother to support financially their spouse/s as soon as very awful incidents happened.....no food, shelter, money or whatsoever.....and beneficiaries can't even start working as yet, you don't want to be in that situation.

On the other hand, some USCs were scammed or used for immigration purpose, so as a result they got huge debts; and lost their assets and properties. Some also have been through with previous unwanted and expensive divorce / heartaches.....which they feel they should have a pre-nup agreement. Now some people desires to learn from those bad experiences, and thought of being "wise or smart" next time they get into another marriage.

I guess your Fiance is a very wise and open-minded person (on a positive thought).

I hope he would also ask your opinions (as a mutual respect) on what provisions / considerations shall be included in the agreement, at least in the event of divorce you are also protected as to "what is legally due to you".

If all conditions in the agreement will only favor your Fiance, then I think it is going to be unfair and that is not an "agreement"...thus both parties should agree with it. You are going to be his wife; and moreso you will be moving out from the country with so much consequences that can happen in the event of unsuccesful marriage, especially you still have to go through long immigration processes. There would be lots of adjustments when you both stay in one roof.

This is a delicate issue which should be honestly, heartily and intelligently discuss and manage by both parties, if not, then there may be a "hidden agenda" involve in one party. When true love is present on both couples....with God's grace.....this should work out 100%. God bless.

[Darnell 8,479]

Hi All.

My fiance and I just discussed about prenuptial agreement...He wants us to have a prenuptial agreement.I know know he loves and trust me...but still I feel sad because its like he is thinking that I might get his money and leave him????I am not after his money ..I love him dearly....and I agreed to what he wants.My question is...Is it natural to have prenuptial agreement in America?I was offended honestly.

It is not natural in the USA, actually.

It is 'normal' this century, however.

pre-nuptial agreements protect one person's 'prior obtained wealth'.

That's it, really.

[Eric-Pris 1,607]

Since the divorce rate in the US is 50% and probably lower if it involves a foreign spouse, a pre-nup really makes sense, especially when the USC has a high net worth.

While most spouses initially feel depply offended when asked to sign a pre-nup, I think most eventually realize it's not personal (reflection of their character) and it's not a reflection of the expectation of the success of the marriage.

In my opinion, if after the topic is brought up and discussed, the spouse is still deeply offended and objects to it, to me that would be a major red flag.

[Juliet and Steve 93]

Yes exactly! it's an AGREEMENT, meaning you need to agree to what's in it. So if he says that you're entitled to nothing if you divorce, I wouldn't agree with that.

If it said the other was entitled to nothing the entire agreement would be considered useless by every Court in the land. Such agreements must be fair and rational or they would be rejected and essentially thrown out in Court proceedings.

[Gosia & Tito 199]

Hi All.

My fiance and I just discussed about prenuptial agreement...He wants us to have a prenuptial agreement.I know know he loves and trust me...but still I feel sad because its like he is thinking that I might get his money and leave him????I am not after his money ..I love him dearly....and I agreed to what he wants.My question is...Is it natural to have prenuptial agreement in America?I was offended honestly.

First, lets say that a prenup does not mean any less love, it's just financial insurance. Not saying a divorce would happen but better prepared than sorry. A prenup would protect you actually. In the event of a short marriage and divorce, courts in the US would usually grant nothing to the spouse that has the least financial assets. Even if a divorce is longstanding, the prenup will define before hand what kind of arrangements would be in place. In some cases, it supplements a living trust in defining health related decisions that would be needed.

It's up to the couple to decide whether they decide to have one or not. I wouldn't take as a sign of distrust but only as a sign of practical and pragmatic thinking.

In the US, whether people might like it or not, a marriage is primarily a financial contract. Yes, it takes all the romanticism out of it, but it is what it is.

Now, if you end up deciding to go with it, it is important that you have the prenup reviewed by your own attorney, independently from his. Generally, never sign anything that you do not read or understand fully, as well as the implications, hence, your own attorney. And I mean one that is not paid by your future husband, that would not make it an independent advice.

Hope this helps

[Artisan 138]

As another person said, we pay for health and car insurance yet we HOPE we won't need to use them, and it's just as prudent to protect yourself and your assets in the event of a divorce, even if it never happens.

Insurance is a form of gambling and always has been (this is why some religious organizations are exempt from mandatory insurance laws). I don't buy insurance and then hope nothing goes wrong. The insurance company sells me a policy because THEY hope nothing goes wrong. I am betting that the amount of money I give the insurance company will be far less than the amount I would otherwise pay when something happens. I would never purchase insurance if I wasn't gambling on the fact that I would get more out of it than I paid into it.

[amanda1005 2]

This message is for TINMAN

I know that this discussion will fall under "money"...I just want to make sure I am clear here...I am not upset or sad because the prenup agreement will leave me nothing...

I,from the very start is not after my fiance's money...I may not be rich but I live comfortably...I am educated and I can survive...The reason why I was hurt is because I didnt expect that this kind of situation will happen to me....(complicated)

Now giving bad comments is like being an idiot..I guess we are here to help each other.

You even mentioned this:

"Don't be selfish. If it wasn't yours, it belongs to someone else!"

My answer would be:

Tinman,I am not selfish..the reason why I am asking for opinions is because this is new to me....I think you have bad experiences in the past...Think before you react!!!!!!Okay?don't be such pig!

[Cathi 5,783]

Nobody should be OFFENDED by the recommendation of a prenuptual. Anyone who has aquired some sort of wealth or possesion of any sort PRIOR to marrying someone else, should protect those investments in case of his or her divorce or death. That person's immediate family desrves this protection. Even though I love My new wife and would certainly want to care for her in the event of my death, I also owe it to my biological family and children to ensure that my selected assets ( which were aquired before my new marriage) should go to them as I wish.

It is true that both parties need to agree to every term of the prenup, and when done so, then sign it, and let it be as it is.

If You truly love your husband and not after his money or possesions, then what are you upset for?

Many state laws alrerady stipulate that anything aquired after the marriage is divided up evenly anyway, so if He or she dies, You will not lose anything. However, if you divorce in 2 years or 5 or whatever, what makes You think You are entitled to anything he had before he met you?

That being said, I would not want My Mother's jewlery or my family's inheritance of any sort going to anyone other than my immediate family who are entitled to keep it in the family.

How would You or Your family like it if Your family owned wealth and your husband wanted 1/2 of it if you and He divorced?.....would that be fair?

Don't be selfish. If it wasn't yours, it belongs to someone else!

who said she was being selfish? seriously? she merely asked if it was normal in the US

[tinman 33]

personal insults seem to be common from your neck of the woods. if you don't agree with someones opinion, then dont ask for opinions....this isn't burger king, everything in the US is not free.

[del-2-5-2014 1,339]

This message is for TINMAN

I know that this discussion will fall under "money"...I just want to make sure I am clear here...I am not upset or sad because the prenup agreement will leave me nothing...

I,from the very start is not after my fiance's money...I may not be rich but I live comfortably...I am educated and I can survive...The reason why I was hurt is because I didnt expect that this kind of situation will happen to me....(complicated)

Now giving bad comments is like being an idiot..I guess we are here to help each other.

You even mentioned this:

"Don't be selfish. If it wasn't yours, it belongs to someone else!"

My answer would be:

Tinman,I am not selfish..the reason why I am asking for opinions is because this is new to me....I think you have bad experiences in the past...Think before you react!!!!!!Okay?don't be such pig!

Everybody has experiences, good or bad, it's those experiences that shape our future behavior.

You asked for opinions, one was provided.

[tinman 33]

I really understand where you are coming from as this is very uncommon issue in the Philippines. In the US it is being practiced especially in cases where valuable assets involve, as we all know that divorce rate is getting higher. It protects couple in the event of such life changing circumtances. People change over time or through the years.

Perhaps you may have read or heard some horrible stories that some USCs or petitioners don't even bother to support financially their spouse/s as soon as very awful incidents happened.....no food, shelter, money or whatsoever.....and beneficiaries can't even start working as yet, you don't want to be in that situation.

On the other hand, some USCs were scammed or used for immigration purpose, so as a result they got huge debts; and lost their assets and properties. Some also have been through with previous unwanted and expensive divorce / heartaches.....which they feel they should have a pre-nup agreement. Now some people desires to learn from those bad experiences, and thought of being "wise or smart" next time they get into another marriage.

I guess your Fiance is a very wise and open-minded person (on a positive thought).

I hope he would also ask your opinions (as a mutual respect) on what provisions / considerations shall be included in the agreement, at least in the event of divorce you are also protected as to "what is legally due to you".

If all conditions in the agreement will only favor your Fiance, then I think it is going to be unfair and that is not an "agreement"...thus both parties should agree with it. You are going to be his wife; and moreso you will be moving out from the country with so much consequences that can happen in the event of unsuccesful marriage, especially you still have to go through long immigration processes. There would be lots of adjustments when you both stay in one roof.

This is a delicate issue which should be honestly, heartily and intelligently discuss and manage by both parties, if not, then there may be a "hidden agenda" involve in one party. When true love is present on both couples....with God's grace.....this should work out 100%. God bless.

This also is very insightful to the discussion, and well said.

These days things are not done with a handshake and a nod.

If someone here assumes that a "prenuptual" limits you or leaves you out in some way, then consider that the prenup also can also guarantee your well being in the face of your husband or wifes death, or divorce.

In the event of my death or whatever, I want My Spouse to know She will be cared for. I whole heartedly agree with "Inhistime"...about a foreigner giving up her home and family oversees, is also taking a risk.....but to those who argue that "well if He loves me, then I SHOULD recieve everything He owns....well, then that would be extremely selfish, and Your motives SHOULD be questioned.

Making personal attacks on someones personal life (which You know nothing about) is not the solution.

A person works hard 40, 50 years, whatever...who wants his biological family to recieve a certain amount of his assets (which likely is his choice to make) has the right, and oblgation to protect them also....not just have it all go to someone new in his life.

Like others have said, "sit down and talk about it, and both of you come up with an ammicable agreement.

Move on.......don't just ask for the opinions of those that only agree with you.

[OnMyWayID 1,489]

I know that this discussion will fall under "money"...I just want to make sure I am clear here...I am not upset or sad because the prenup agreement will leave me nothing...

Hi there... If the prenup leaves you nothing then you need to go back and read some of the advice others have given you. He wants to protect his pre-marriage assets and has opened up a dialog with you about the subject. Your initial reply should be (assuming you are going to accept a prenup) a mention of the sacrifice you are making by uprooting your life and moving to a new country.

The prenup should then be designed for you to get on your feet and be self supporting (and half the assets from the time the marriage started) - he wants to limit his risk but he should not be able to eliminate it and just walk away, there should be a price to pay. He wants to negotiate that price up front and is opening with "zero" - You need to negotiate for your interests just like he is negotiating for his...

There should also be a phase-out of pre-nup protection over a period of time.

Edited June 9, 2013 by OnMyWayID

[Artisan 138]

Tinman,I am not selfish..the reason why I am asking for opinions is because this is new to me....I think you have bad experiences in the past...Think before you react!!!!!!

Amanda1005 I think you would have received a more reasoned response by posting your question on the Philippine sub-forum. As much as I love VisaJourney I find that the vast majority of people that post here outside the Philippine sub-forum concerning non-visa related questions bring far too much cultural baggage to the discussion that does not really represent Fil-Am couples so the advice they give is tainted in a way that makes such advice toxic for a couple attempting to maintain a relationship that is uniquely Filipino in origin.

The question you really should be asking is not whether a pre-nuptial agreement is normal for US citizens but whether such agreements are typical in the Fil-Am community. What does a pre-nup mean not only to you but to your family back home and the support you'll send them? Does your husband-to-be understand familial obligations and accept his role in being the part of a larger extended family? Are you willing to reduce your marriage from a exchange of vows to love and honor to a financial contract that makes you no less indentured than a common worker who's final payout depends on length of service and contains penalties for breach of contract?

[slowlyman 118]

I've enjoyed following this discussion. It's interesting to see the different points of view people have on this topic.

No one goes through the Visa process or plans a wedding with the idea a divorce is in the future, but divorces happen. No one enters into a marriage with the idea one party is seeking financial gain, but people marry for money all the time.

When a relationship is new and everyone is in love the idea of sharing everything equally and splitting amicably seems very easy and logical. But when things go pear shaped, the love is gone, and bitterness takes it's place, suddenly the idea of sharing and splitting equally gets a bit more complicated.

Having a pre defined set of "rules" helps significantly during an emotional time.

This new person comes into my life, and we split for any reason. Maybe nothing sinister, maybe she just can't adjust to 20 below winters, or I find raising another mans child is more stressful then I expected. It doesn't mean we didn't love each other at the start. We both had the best intentions. Stuff happens.

I've spent the last 30 years building what I have today. Should I now be subject to a judge determining if some of my assets should be shared with her after only a couple years together.?

Yes, it's planning the divorce before the marriage, but I've seen how bitter divorces can get. Sometimes revenge and hurting the other person is a top priority. Talking about these things and finding an agreeable resolution when we like each other seems like just good sense.

[Artisan 138]

I've enjoyed following this discussion. It's interesting to see the different points of view people have on this topic.

No one goes through the Visa process or plans a wedding with the idea a divorce is in the future, but divorces happen. No one enters into a marriage with the idea one party is seeking financial gain, but people marry for money all the time.

When a relationship is new and everyone is in love the idea of sharing everything equally and splitting amicably seems very easy and logical. But when things go pear shaped, the love is gone, and bitterness takes it's place, suddenly the idea of sharing and splitting equally gets a bit more complicated.

Having a pre defined set of "rules" helps significantly during an emotional time.

This new person comes into my life, and we split for any reason. Maybe nothing sinister, maybe she just can't adjust to 20 below winters, or I find raising another mans child is more stressful then I expected. It doesn't mean we didn't love each other at the start. We both had the best intentions. Stuff happens.

I've spent the last 30 years building what I have today. Should I now be subject to a judge determining if some of my assets should be shared with her after only a couple years together.?

Yes, it's planning the divorce before the marriage, but I've seen how bitter divorces can get. Sometimes revenge and hurting the other person is a top priority. Talking about these things and finding an agreeable resolution when we like each other seems like just good sense.

Perhaps the better way to look at it would be 'is this person I am going to marry worth everything I own in the case he or she leaves me after only a few months'? If you can't answer yes to that question then perhaps marriage is not the relationship you want. Pre-nuptial agreements are contracts that degrade a marriage into a financial arrangement.The exchange of a service for the promise of a pre-determined financial reward based on length of service or failure to breech contract.

If someone wants to marry a foreigner and suspects he or she is doing it just for the visa or money the best thing to do is move to their country and live as they do without the benefit of the US citizen's resources. Most of the Filipinas I have met would gladly have stayed behind in the Philippines (my own wife included) and would much rather have lived at home rather than move to a new country.

Edited June 10, 2013 by Artisan