Questions about my Wife's Philippines citizenship

[Hank_ 9,174]

Foreigners cannot get dual citizenship. Dual citizenship is only for former Filipinos. Not their spouses.

You can get Philippine citizenship by way of renouncing your U.S. citizenship. You will lose your U.S. citizenship, and will become a Filipino citizen...not a dual citizen.

I agree, the 13A visa is great if living there long term. For me, even the Balikbayan visa is adequate.

There is one important thing to remember for foreigners getting Philippine citizenship and giving up their U.S. citizenship. If ever you needed to return to the U.S. (e.g. death in the family), you will most likely need to apply for a tourist visa. Remember, you will be a Filipino now...even if you are white. U.S. will treat you like any other citizen of a foreign country. And you will need certain types of visa to lawfully enter the U.S. Just something to consider.

Wrong... as in that is soooo false. A U.S. citizen can obtain citizenship in a foreign without losing their U.S. citizenship... without issue.

http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_778.html

Excerpt from the referenced site:

Administrative Standard of Evidence

As already noted, the actions listed above can cause loss of U.S. citizenship only if performed voluntarily and with the intention of relinquishing U.S. citizenship. The Department has a uniform administrative standard of evidence based on the premise that U.S. citizens intend to retain United States citizenship when they obtain naturalization in a foreign state, subscribe to a declaration of allegiance to a foreign state, serve in the armed forces of a foreign state not engaged in hostilities with the United States, or accept non-policy level employment with a foreign government.

There is more information on the site that you can read and become enlightened but I will add this excerpt also:

In light of the administrative premise discussed above, a person who:

1. is naturalized in a foreign country;
2. takes a routine oath of allegiance to a foreign state;
3. serves in the armed forces of a foreign state not engaged in hostilities with the United States, or
4. accepts non-policy level employment with a foreign government,

and in so doing wishes to retain U.S. citizenship need not submit prior to the commission of a potentially expatriating act a statement or evidence of his or her intent to retain U.S. citizenship since such an intent will be presumed.

[Caryh 5,206]

Foreigners cannot get dual citizenship. Dual citizenship is only for former Filipinos. Not their spouses.

You can get Philippine citizenship by way of renouncing your U.S. citizenship. You will lose your U.S. citizenship, and will become a Filipino citizen...not a dual citizen.

I agree, the 13A visa is great if living there long term. For me, even the Balikbayan visa is adequate.

There is one important thing to remember for foreigners getting Philippine citizenship and giving up their U.S. citizenship. If ever you needed to return to the U.S. (e.g. death in the family), you will most likely need to apply for a tourist visa. Remember, you will be a Filipino now...even if you are white. U.S. will treat you like any other citizen of a foreign country. And you will need certain types of visa to lawfully enter the U.S. Just something to consider.

Hmmm now reading the dual Citizenship law, it does only apply to natural born Philippine citizens, but that deals with reclaiming Philippine Citizenship. I'd definitely not dump my US citizenship. I'm trying to see where the Philippines requires renouncing other citizenship, but I'm not finding it. There are still multiple references to the USA in their naturalization laws yet.

[Hank_ 9,174]

Hmmm now reading the dual Citizenship law, it does only apply to natural born Philippine citizens, but that deals with reclaiming Philippine Citizenship. I'd definitely not dump my US citizenship. I'm trying to see where the Philippines requires renouncing other citizenship, but I'm not finding it. There are still multiple references to the USA in their naturalization laws yet.

You don't have to dump your U.S. citizenship to acquire Philippine citizenship if that was your desire. Read my post just above yours.

[Markieboy 104]

Wrong... as in that is soooo false. A U.S. citizen can obtain citizenship in a foreign without losing their U.S. citizenship... without issue.

http://travel.state.gov/law/citizenship/citizenship_778.html

Excerpt from the referenced site:

Administrative Standard of Evidence

As already noted, the actions listed above can cause loss of U.S. citizenship only if performed voluntarily and with the intention of relinquishing U.S. citizenship. The Department has a uniform administrative standard of evidence based on the premise that U.S. citizens intend to retain United States citizenship when they obtain naturalization in a foreign state, subscribe to a declaration of allegiance to a foreign state, serve in the armed forces of a foreign state not engaged in hostilities with the United States, or accept non-policy level employment with a foreign government.

There is more information on the site that you can read and become enlightened but I will add this excerpt also:

In light of the administrative premise discussed above, a person who:

1. is naturalized in a foreign country;
2. takes a routine oath of allegiance to a foreign state;
3. serves in the armed forces of a foreign state not engaged in hostilities with the United States, or
4. accepts non-policy level employment with a foreign government,

and in so doing wishes to retain U.S. citizenship need not submit prior to the commission of a potentially expatriating act a statement or evidence of his or her intent to retain U.S. citizenship since such an intent will be presumed.

I stand corrected.

Hmmm now reading the dual Citizenship law, it does only apply to natural born Philippine citizens, but that deals with reclaiming Philippine Citizenship. I'd definitely not dump my US citizenship. I'm trying to see where the Philippines requires renouncing other citizenship, but I'm not finding it. There are still multiple references to the USA in their naturalization laws yet.

Correct. I forgot to mention the dual citizenship law refers to natural born Filipinos. Even if someone wishes to naturalize to Philippine citizenship, s/he cannot become a dual citizen (according to Philippine law.

Here's one reference which states the Oath of Allegiance in the Philippines.

"...renounce absolutely and forever all allegiance and fidelity..."

You don't have to dump your U.S. citizenship to acquire Philippine citizenship if that was your desire. Read my post just above yours.

This is still a slippery slope, in my opinion.

The risks greatly outweigh the rewards.

[Caryh 5,206]

You don't have to dump your U.S. citizenship to acquire Philippine citizenship if that was your desire. Read my post just above yours.

I didn't think you would lose it, but it did make me think I should really look closer into the issue. But given its so far away, I haven't looked much deeper into the Philippines side of things besides the basic requirements.

[Markieboy 104]

subscribe to a declaration of allegiance to a foreign state

Stating a declaration of allegiance to a foreign state is very different from renouncing absolutely and forever all allegiance and fidelity.

Again, this is a veeeerrryyyy slippery slope. I would not want my allegiance to the United States questioned over this technicality. Not worth it, IMHO.

[Caryh 5,206]

Here's one reference which states the Oath of Allegiance in the Philippines.

"...renounce absolutely and forever all allegiance and fidelity..."

This is still a slippery slope, in my opinion.

The risks greatly outweigh the rewards.

If you look at that oath, you'll also see this part of it. This is a commonwealth law, pre-independence from the USA. So how its applied now of modified is a big question. And can a country really say you're not a citizen of another country? I suppose they could say you have to renounce it first, then become a citizen, but I'm not seeing that in any of the requirements.

"and I hereby declare that I recognize and accept the supreme authority of the United States of America in the Philippines and will maintain true faith and allegiance thereto"

[Hank_ 9,174]

Stating a declaration of allegiance to a foreign state is very different from renouncing absolutely and forever all allegiance and fidelity.

Again, this is a veeeerrryyyy slippery slope. I would not want my allegiance to the United States questioned over this technicality. Not worth it, IMHO.

Obviously you didn't read the state department website link I posted for you.

There is no slope, slippery or otherwise. Plain and simple if one chooses to have citizenship in a foreign country and the USA they can do so without issue of losing their U.S. citizenship from the USA standpoint.

Would I do it? No, not just no but Heck NO. By having citizenship in a foreign country you give up the right of having the U.S. government offering assistance in a "situation" .

[Markieboy 104]

If you look at that oath, you'll also see this part of it. This is a commonwealth law, pre-independence from the USA. So how its applied now of modified is a big question. And can a country really say you're not a citizen of another country? I suppose they could say you have to renounce it first, then become a citizen, but I'm not seeing that in any of the requirements.

"and I hereby declare that I recognize and accept the supreme authority of the United States of America in the Philippines and will maintain true faith and allegiance thereto"

You are correct.

The information I posted was pre-independence. The current Oath of Allegience does not require renouncing allegience to your country.

Obviously you didn't read the state department website link I posted for you.

There is no slope, slippery or otherwise. Plain and simple if one chooses to have citizenship in a foreign country and the USA they can do so without issue of losing their U.S. citizenship from the USA standpoint.

Would I do it? No, not just no but Heck NO. By having citizenship in a foreign country you give up the right of having the U.S. government offering assistance in a "situation" .

Thank you for the link, Hank. I appreciate it.

Why do you think the U.S. would not offer assistance if one had citizenship in a foreign country? I mean they still would be American citizens.

[Hank_ 9,174]

You are correct.

The information I posted was pre-independence. The current Oath of Allegience does not require renouncing allegience to your country.

Thank you for the link, Hank. I appreciate it.

Why do you think the U.S. would not offer assistance if one had citizenship in a foreign country? I mean they still would be American citizens.

Because they are citizens of that foreign country and by being citizens that precludes U.S. intervention. No different than a Filipino who becomes a naturalized citizen of the U.S. and then reaffirms their citizenship in the Philippines.

You can do some reading on this... its out there.

[Caryh 5,206]

Would I do it? No, not just no but Heck NO. By having citizenship in a foreign country you give up the right of having the U.S. government offering assistance in a "situation" .

That's assuming the US government would help you out if you had trouble in the Philippines. Get in trouble with the law, and nope it ain't going to happen. Get kidnapped, US doesn't negotiate with terrorists. Run out of money, hey there this ain't no welfare office. I've never heard of the embassy in the Philippines ever helping an American in trouble over there. Yes they might process paperwork and such for you, but help if you got in trouble? You better be in the military or otherwise it appears its hand's off.

Need help, here a list of people you can hire.

"ACS also assists U.S. citizens in distress, such as those arrested or destitute. It maintains a list of doctors, dentists and attorneys for reference"

[Hank_ 9,174]

Not the type of "assistance" I was referring to, not that the embassy can or will do very much if you get your butt in a fire, but they would make contact with the Philippine government at your (or your family's) request. If you were a dual citizen the Philippine government would let the embassy know you are a Philippine citizen and the embassy would close the file as they don't interfere with local matters.

[newacct 688]

Plain and simple if one chooses to have citizenship in a foreign country and the USA they can do so without issue of losing their U.S. citizenship from the USA standpoint.

Unless, of course, renouncing your existing citizenships is a prerequisite for naturalizing in that country. Plenty of countries have such a requirement. The Philippines is not one of them.

[Hank_ 9,174]

Unless, of course, renouncing your existing citizenships is a prerequisite for naturalizing in that country. Plenty of countries have such a requirement. The Philippines is not one of them.

And this being.... the Philippine forum.

(how did I know someone would pop on and make a totally irrelevant comment about "other countries")

Edited June 7, 2013 by Hank_