Election week gas prices were year's low; started rising again immediately afterwards

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Hm, funny thing is that if the apples at my local grocery store are too expensive (which they are most of the time), I head down to the local farmers market where I get them for half the price or less - not to mention much better quality. Don't exactly have that choice filling up, do I? The free market is not so free if it is controlled by a few giants.

right. but what you CAN do is either stop eating so many apples or grow your own damn apples and no longer depend on the foreign farmers to grow 'em for you.

Your point is? I just said that I have all kinds of choices with them apples because there are ample suppliers and players in the apple market. But I have only one set of choice on the gas: buy it or don't buy it. An industry that is very much monopolized or in the hand of a few giants - such as the oil and gas industry - works against the free market not for or with it. That holds true whether I grow my own apples or not.

[dani_christine 0]

Hm, funny thing is that if the apples at my local grocery store are too expensive (which they are most of the time), I head down to the local farmers market where I get them for half the price or less - not to mention much better quality. Don't exactly have that choice filling up, do I? The free market is not so free if it is controlled by a few giants.

right. but what you CAN do is either stop eating so many apples or grow your own damn apples and no longer depend on the foreign farmers to grow 'em for you.

Your point is? I just said that I have all kinds of choices with them apples because there are ample suppliers and players in the apple market. But I have only one set of choice on the gas: buy it or don't buy it. An industry that is very much monopolized or in the hand of a few giants - such as the oil and gas industry - works against the free market not for or with it. That holds true whether I grow my own apples or not.

so, if you ruled the world...how would you fix the problem?

[melly 0]

If I payed less than 2 bucks a gallon for gas I wouldn't be complaining either. I can't even remember the last time the price was that low. It went from a low of about 2.17 a couple weeks ago to about 2.42 now. And that's for the cheap stuff.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Hm, funny thing is that if the apples at my local grocery store are too expensive (which they are most of the time), I head down to the local farmers market where I get them for half the price or less - not to mention much better quality. Don't exactly have that choice filling up, do I? The free market is not so free if it is controlled by a few giants.

right. but what you CAN do is either stop eating so many apples or grow your own damn apples and no longer depend on the foreign farmers to grow 'em for you.

Your point is? I just said that I have all kinds of choices with them apples because there are ample suppliers and players in the apple market. But I have only one set of choice on the gas: buy it or don't buy it. An industry that is very much monopolized or in the hand of a few giants - such as the oil and gas industry - works against the free market not for or with it. That holds true whether I grow my own apples or not.

so, if you ruled the world...how would you fix the problem?

I don't know. I guess I'd try to promote a free market - read: a market with actual competition - instead of the monopolization that takes hold of ever more sectors of the economy. If a proposed consolidation of players doesn't leave enough players on a somewhat level playing field, then the merger doesn't happen. It's not that hard.

[dani_christine 0]

Hm, funny thing is that if the apples at my local grocery store are too expensive (which they are most of the time), I head down to the local farmers market where I get them for half the price or less - not to mention much better quality. Don't exactly have that choice filling up, do I? The free market is not so free if it is controlled by a few giants.

right. but what you CAN do is either stop eating so many apples or grow your own damn apples and no longer depend on the foreign farmers to grow 'em for you.

Your point is? I just said that I have all kinds of choices with them apples because there are ample suppliers and players in the apple market. But I have only one set of choice on the gas: buy it or don't buy it. An industry that is very much monopolized or in the hand of a few giants - such as the oil and gas industry - works against the free market not for or with it. That holds true whether I grow my own apples or not.

so, if you ruled the world...how would you fix the problem?

I don't know. I guess I'd try to promote a free market - read: a market with actual competition - instead of the monopolization that takes hold of ever more sectors of the economy. If a proposed consolidation of players doesn't leave enough players on a somewhat level playing field, then the merger doesn't happen. It's not that hard.

mmmm...so, in your opinion, smaller companies could be more competitive and therefore you'd have lower consumer-end pricing? that sounds nice...but i don't think it's realistic. we all know that in today's world, small businesses have trouble competing against the big dogs. the same holds true, i'm sure, in the world of oil refineries. it's just more practical and more cost-effective for large companies. they will always be able to beat out their smaller competitors. so in order to "promote competition"...the only solution would be government regulation under anti-trust laws?

i just think there has to be a better solution.

please don't misunderstand...i get pissy every time i have to fill up at the pump, too. i really hate spending my hard-earned money on something so disposable as gas. i just think we can find a better solution. or something.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Seems to me that it would be easier to deal with the current price situation via economics rather than holding out for renewable/alternative fuels to be made commercially available. The latter is, at best, a medium term solution.

[mawilson 2,133]

Gasoline is cheap. What are you guys b1tching about? Go to Europe where it's over $6 / gallon.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Gasoline is cheap. What are you guys b1tching about? Go to Europe where it's over $6 / gallon.

I don't know, I used to fill up for less than a buck a gallon. Not too long ago. Pre-Bush. Call me nostalgic.

[cmartyn 0]

Id deregulate the ####### out of it, and I mean deregulate it. No more liability limits for any of the oil companies. People would figure out an alternative in a big hurry.

[mawilson 2,133]

Gasoline is cheap. What are you guys b1tching about? Go to Europe where it's over $6 / gallon.

I don't know, I used to fill up for less than a buck a gallon. Not too long ago. Pre-Bush. Call me nostalgic.

Far be it from me to defend Bush, but it's not all his fault, you know.

[garya505 2]

Gasoline is cheap. What are you guys b1tching about? Go to Europe where it's over $6 / gallon.

I don't know, I used to fill up for less than a buck a gallon. Not too long ago. Pre-Bush. Call me nostalgic.

Far be it from me to defend Bush, but it's not all his fault, you know.

For someone who has BDS it is.

Edited November 26, 2006 by garya505

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Gasoline is cheap. What are you guys b1tching about? Go to Europe where it's over $6 / gallon.

I don't know, I used to fill up for less than a buck a gallon. Not too long ago. Pre-Bush. Call me nostalgic.

Far be it from me to defend Bush, but it's not all his fault, you know.

Did I say it is?

[GaryC 7]

Lets look at this realistically. No one seems to like "big oil". There is a reason why oil companies are "big" Do you have any idea how much the capitol outlay for a oil company is? Drilling rigs are huge, Oil tankers are huge, refineries are huge, the distribution system to get gas to the pumps is huge. And at every step there are enviromental regs that must be followed. By definition there can't be a small or medium sized oil company that has any hope of competing.

One of the problems is whe haven't built a new refinery in decades. The inviromental types just will not let them. How are we to have the gas we want without being willing to have the infrasturcture we need to do it?

Another problem is that we buy most of our oil from countries that control the price. When oil was $18/barrel it was easy to have $1 gas. But now OPEC is charging $70/barrel. You can't deny the math. That is why gas is $2.20. I am surprised that it isn't $5 now considering how much oil has gone up.

Another reason why gas is so much is because our own government will not let us drill our own oil. A few caribou in Alaska and the view on the beach front properties in the gulf coast and west coast are more important.

An oil company has to be huge to absorb all of the unexpected things that are out of it's control. (wars, hurricanes, new enviromental regs, new taxes ect...) It also has to be big to be efficient in making and delivering gas.

I just don't buy the idea that oil companies are gouging us. As someone pointed out that gas is cheaper here than about anywhere else in the world (except in an OPEC country). They just make a large target for people to focus on.

I would like to see our government ( hello dems!!) spend money on a realistic alternative to oil. Something we can use to run our cars and heat our homes and run our factories. Until we do that bitching about the price of gas and blaming big oil is a lesson in futility. All it does is make you feel better but does nothing to solve the problem.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Another problem is that we buy most of our oil from countries that control the price. When oil was $18/barrel it was easy to have $1 gas. But now OPEC is charging $70/barrel. You can't deny the math. That is why gas is $2.20. I am surprised that it isn't $5 now considering how much oil has gone up.

Don't forget that not only the crude oil price has skyrocketed. The profits that the big oilies rake in have as well. If your math was right, they'd be hanging on by a thread right now. They certainly aren't. As much as I can't deny the math, you can't deny that there's apparently quite a bit more to the equation than crude oil prices and refining capacity.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

As a BTW, BP is the only company I have ever worked for where corporate employees have their lunch paid for by the company. The London office, and the complex at Sunbury have a free gourmet restaurant.

If that isn't surprising enough, the guys I worked for turned their nose up at that - preferring instead to take a 2-3 hour lunch at five-star London restaurants and claiming it back as "expenses".

Believe me, they are not tightening the belt. At all...