Advice please about K1 denial for multiple petitions

[revtech100 16]

Thanks

Yeah, it's really the worst thing we've been through together so although it's tough for us at least we can see from this how committed we are to each other. I would wait forever (hopefully sooner!) for her, we will find a way to make it work in the end i know.

Next time she goes for the interview i will attend it. This time when she got back to the hotel skype was so bad we had to resort to texting and it's so hard to show how supportive you are via text. During her interview i wrote her a nice supportive email just in case of the worst-case to let her know i am hers forever.....and of the 1000's of emails we've sent back and forth, that is the one email Yahoo sent to spam. I guess that's why they have the '!' on Yahoo! So next time, even if it doesn't contribute toward a successful petition, i will be there for her. Tears in my eyes now just thinking how she must have felt. Well, i did at least pay for her sister to fly to Manila to support her, so she was not alone. But next time yeah, i will attend for sure - and i'd suggest anyone who can attend should do so, it's going to be easier to ask questions there and then if there's 2 of you and one is a native English speaker - rather than contacting the embassy later.

Yeah, i considered that for the first time last night. First i will consult with a lawyer to make sure doing something like that won't just slow everything down.

Great idea though, so thank you

I have to say I feel for you. The one thing I did was to fly over. Brutal trip, anchorage to manilla Saturday, arrive Sunday, rested Monday, interview Tuesday, fly back Wednesday and back to work in Thursday. But just being there eliminated lots of questions. I bet we weren't questioned a total of 5 minutes. Some girls were being grilled and we followed them to the same window and no issues at all. So I think you are on the right track to go back when the time comes.....good luck

[Ratty and C 13]

Sorry that this is happening. I was physically sick when my then Fiancee called me to tell me that she was denied. It's totally not a cool feeling.

Others have covered most of what i wanted to say but I would just say to be open minded about the Ex, you weren't there and didn't know the dynamics of that relationship. For example I drove 800 miles round trip to help my 1st Ex move apartments but I will not cross the street to pee on my 2nd Ex Wife is she was on fire.

Seems that you need this Guy so I would not be disrespectful to him, not saying you are or were.

Thanks for the reply, i was very respectful when contacting the ex, but he was adamant about not helping.

Yeah, i know what you're saying about keeping an open mind about him but there's more i know about him than i'm posting here, and not information from her but from news articles. He's bad news. I have been extremely careful not to antagonize him 'cos as you say maybe we need him.

[Ebunoluwa 6,136]

I was really very very thorough about all our paperwork and the consular officer said everything is in order except for this one issue.

I heard of the previous petition before we filed, it was not kept from me but i didn't give it much weight because of several reasons:

1. Old petitions expire after 4 months, this is from 7-8 years ago.

2. The ex fiancee since filed for a K1 for a different fiancee from the Philippines and married that beneficiary - so surely his petition for my fiancee is not still in the system as it did not mess up his application.

3. There's no questions in the 129f etc about previous petitions on her behalf.

4. Old K1 visa applications are not grounds for denial, it just needs resolving and we did not know when we applied that the USCIS-CSC does not do their job of reviewing cases returned by the embassy.

5. She was never granted the visa because she didn't attend the interview. She never received information from him such as Case number, Receipt number. Those pieces of information seem to be necessary to file a withdrawl. Most of the withdrawl procedures refer to the petitioner making the withdrawl, not the beneficiary.

The immigration specialist for my congressman thinks it's strange this is happening, so do you think i should i have thought this would be a problem when it's my first experience with this type of visa? The problem is really caused by USCIS-CSC not reviewing returned petitions as they are supposed to - when you first file, do you know not only what you should do but what parts of the immigration system further down the line are not functioning as intended depending on which address you happen to live at? That could be any number of things, it's simply not possible to know not only what you are supposed to do but also what the exact internal procedure of every step of the process is. That's why there's articles like this

http://www.ilw.com/articles/2006,0323-ellis.shtm

and

http://candleforlove.com/forums/topic/40923-noids-at-california-service-center-update/

And also bear in mind it seems like they keep tweaking their procedures, so information available is not always current.

So, that's why.

#2. I don't understand what you mean by what I bolded. His petition is in the system and will remain there and it would not matter on his approval

of a second petition and subsequent K1 for his new beneficiary.

It seems to me the CO made a mistake saying he returned it so USCIS "can resolve an old issue with the former one."

USCIS resolves nothing with returned petitions. It expires and that's it.

It makes no sense. Unless he used it as a blah blah excuse just to return your case.

*rant on. I swear sometimes there is a huge disconnect of understanding between DOS and USCIS. One doesn't know how something they do affects the other. These two agencies are like kids on a play ground not wanting to play nicely together. Just stupid. *rant over.

You will get a letter stating that you can refile after 6 months....if you make a lot of noise.

I don't share the opinion that a FOIA request now would slow the process down, there is no process, once it is retunred it sits in storage until it is expired.

You may be able to prove fault of CO in which case you need a lawyer. I don't know Feldman but I recommend a consultation with Brent Renison, he is well versed with returned K1's.

You got all bases covered. Not much else to do. Have your senator/congressman get the diplomatic pouch number of the returned case to

determine if it has been retunred already or if it is still sitting at the embassy. Sometimes it just sits there for weeks before they return it.

If it has not been returned yet and it is not in the USCIS system yet as received then make sure your representative and/or attorney hussles for

the chance to resolve this because once it is returned there is a snowballs chance in hell to get it "resolved." The CO will not do anything about the case once it is "out of their hands."

Now if you marry and this same thing comes up with a CR1 and it also gets retunred ( you would have FOIA by then and more clarity if that was really the issue) then you have the assurance that the CR1 will NOT expire but in fact a good chance to get it resolved and reaffirmed and send again back to the embassy with a memo to issue the visa. With a CR1, USCIS actually WILL look into the in my opinion "CO created probelm."

Let us know here how it goes please. Best wishes !

[Ratty and C 13]

#2. I don't understand what you mean by what I bolded. His petition is in the system and will remain there and it would not matter on his approval

of a second petition and subsequent K1 for his new beneficiary.

It seems to me the CO made a mistake saying he returned it so USCIS "can resolve an old issue with the former one."

USCIS resolves nothing with returned petitions. It expires and that's it.

It makes no sense. Unless he used it as a blah blah excuse just to return your case.

*rant on. I swear sometimes there is a huge disconnect of understanding between DOS and USCIS. One doesn't know how something they do affects the other. These two agencies are like kids on a play ground not wanting to play nicely together. Just stupid. *rant over.

You will get a letter stating that you can refile after 6 months....if you make a lot of noise.

I don't share the opinion that a FOIA request now would slow the process down, there is no process, once it is retunred it sits in storage until it is expired.

You may be able to prove fault of CO in which case you need a lawyer. I don't know Feldman but I recommend a consultation with Brent Renison, he is well versed with returned K1's.

You got all bases covered. Not much else to do. Have your senator/congressman get the diplomatic pouch number of the returned case to

determine if it has been retunred already or if it is still sitting at the embassy. Sometimes it just sits there for weeks before they return it.

If it has not been returned yet and it is not in the USCIS system yet as received then make sure your representative and/or attorney hussles for

the chance to resolve this because once it is returned there is a snowballs chance in hell to get it "resolved." The CO will not do anything about the case once it is "out of their hands."

Now if you marry and this same thing comes up with a CR1 and it also gets retunred ( you would have FOIA by then and more clarity if that was really the issue) then you have the assurance that the CR1 will NOT expire but in fact a good chance to get it resolved and reaffirmed and send again back to the embassy with a memo to issue the visa. With a CR1, USCIS actually WILL look into the in my opinion "CO created probelm."

Let us know here how it goes please. Best wishes !

Thanks for the detailed response Ebunoluwa.

In the bolded part of #2 i just meant that with my understanding of how the immigration process worked when i first filed the petition there were just many factors that led me to believe his application would not interfere with ours. Him being married via a different K1 to a different beneficiary just lulled me in to a false sense of security i guess, thinking that if there's a still a petition in the system from him for my fiancee then it must have in some way have been resolved for him to be able to file a subsequent K1 and get it approved - so why would his K1 for my fiancee mess up our application but not his? I hope that explanation makes sense, i know it's a bit long winded. I guess now i realize that there's different rules for the petitioner and the beneficiary, and the petitioner has a 2 year limit for multiple petitions, whereas for the beneficiary it's 2 applications ever, so maybe that discerepancy is what allowed this to happen. The ex-fiancee's petition for his now wife would have been in 2008 or 2009, so 2-3 years after his petition for my fiancee.

I thought USCIS does resolve returned petitions - but just not USCIS CSC. It seems like Vermont does do it - but i haven't read up much about Vermont because that doesn't affect our case.

Yeah, i feel like at the moment there's not much else i can do. I'll write about our case in more detail for a lawyer/attorney to suggest if there's more i can do, and in the meantime keep in touch with the congressman's aides. They at least have been responsive and are trying to figure this out before the case leaves the embassy.

Thanks for the opinion of FOIA, do you think it's best to file that ASAP or to wait for the case to return to USCIS? I'm not sure how they would even fulfill the request if my case notes were in the diplomatic pouch.

So, once the case leaves the embassy and is on it's way back to USCIS you agree it's very unlikely to get returned back to the embassy, so the marriage to me sounds like the best option 'cos then at least next application we will be given chance to address any issues that arise.

Incidentally, do you think the ex-fiancee's K1 and our current K1 have any impact on filing a CR1 - i mean, do you think we need to request an imbra waiver or anything like that?

Thanks again for your comments

[Shiobhan 235]

Go to immigrate2us and post a question to the atty there in that thread U will get an answer by

Wed. evening, also some atty there do free or small fee consultation, the matter should be sorted

out before starting out on other applications, don't your g/f have one piece of paper regarding the

past process? you could send a copy with detailed explanation to uscis

[Ratty and C 13]

Go to immigrate2us and post a question to the atty there in that thread U will get an answer by

Wed. evening, also some atty there do free or small fee consultation, the matter should be sorted

out before starting out on other applications, don't your g/f have one piece of paper regarding the

past process? you could send a copy with detailed explanation to uscis

I'll try that thanks. No, she has nothing at all about the old application due to moving address multiple times and things getting lost. It never occurred to her that it would matter- i have told her to keep everything regarding our application!

I will help her draft a letter to USCIS to make sure she includes as much information as she can about the old case and why it should be removed/expired.

Thanks for the advice.

[Ebunoluwa 6,136]

Thanks for the detailed response Ebunoluwa.

In the bolded part of #2 i just meant that with my understanding of how the immigration process worked when i first filed the petition there were just many factors that led me to believe his application would not interfere with ours. Him being married via a different K1 to a different beneficiary just lulled me in to a false sense of security i guess, thinking that if there's a still a petition in the system from him for my fiancee then it must have in some way have been resolved for him to be able to file a subsequent K1 and get it approved - so why would his K1 for my fiancee mess up our application but not his? I hope that explanation makes sense, i know it's a bit long winded. I guess now i realize that there's different rules for the petitioner and the beneficiary, and the petitioner has a 2 year limit for multiple petitions, whereas for the beneficiary it's 2 applications ever, so maybe that discerepancy is what allowed this to happen. The ex-fiancee's petition for his now wife would have been in 2008 or 2009, so 2-3 years after his petition for my fiancee.

I thought USCIS does resolve returned petitions - but just not USCIS CSC. It seems like Vermont does do it - but i haven't read up much about Vermont because that doesn't affect our case.

Yeah, i feel like at the moment there's not much else i can do. I'll write about our case in more detail for a lawyer/attorney to suggest if there's more i can do, and in the meantime keep in touch with the congressman's aides. They at least have been responsive and are trying to figure this out before the case leaves the embassy.

Thanks for the opinion of FOIA, do you think it's best to file that ASAP or to wait for the case to return to USCIS? I'm not sure how they would even fulfill the request if my case notes were in the diplomatic pouch.

So, once the case leaves the embassy and is on it's way back to USCIS you agree it's very unlikely to get returned back to the embassy, so the marriage to me sounds like the best option 'cos then at least next application we will be given chance to address any issues that arise.

Incidentally, do you think the ex-fiancee's K1 and our current K1 have any impact on filing a CR1 - i mean, do you think we need to request an imbra waiver or anything like that?

Thanks again for your comments

Yes, Vermont does it sometimes.

Let the attorney advise you on the FOIA timing. It can be time consuming to hear back about the FOIA, so perhaps wait a month until you know exactly where you case is via pouch number or confirmation from USCIS. Notes should be available to them per entered data on the computer but I know it would have to be officially received by USCIS before they would take a look at it (which I think they won't, let's hope I am wrong).

I do not think they would believe it suspiscious that you request a FOIA, I believe it would rather move them to some kind of action. It is very understandable for you to want to know what the heck is going on through a FOIA.

The multiple waiver issue is a whole other can of worms with some controversy when to file a waiver. You can enter "multiple filing waiver" into the

VJ search and read different perspectives. My own is : Submit one in case the adjudicating officer (in training ?!) is confused when one is needed

if you file for ANOTHER K1.

You will see in your searches how to word a very simple waiver request and send with your next petition. I do not think you need one at all for filing a CR1 next, only if you refile a K1. Due to the craziness of the previous filings double check this with your attorney.

The IMBRA refiling waiver is for the petitioner not the beneficiary.

If she was not drilled by the CO about the why's and what not's of the previous relationship and the guy petitoning her and the reason for the end of that relationship then she may or may not be asked the next time. I really feel the CO may be using the other petiton as an excuse to return the case as the general " not bona fide for immigration purposes only" blanket reason as the CO should surely understand that the previous petition has expired a long time ago and will not interfere at all as it was approved by USCIS in the first place.

You really need the attorney all over this mess, one who will fight for this and address the issue at hand and not just wants to collect a fee for filing another petition.

[Ebunoluwa 6,136]

I'll try that thanks. No, she has nothing at all about the old application due to moving address multiple times and things getting lost. It never occurred to her that it would matter- i have told her to keep everything regarding our application!

I will help her draft a letter to USCIS to make sure she includes as much information as she can about the old case and why it should be removed/expired.

Thanks for the advice.

Let your attorney guide you on what and how to present that letter. You have only one shot, so make it the best you can.

[Ebunoluwa 6,136]

Go to immigrate2us and post a question to the atty there in that thread U will get an answer by

Wed. evening, also some atty there do free or small fee consultation, the matter should be sorted

out before starting out on other applications, don't your g/f have one piece of paper regarding the

past process? you could send a copy with detailed explanation to uscis

In regards to this post, Laurel Scott is a very capable top attorney with misrep waivers, I don't know how she is with returned K1's.

Be careful which 'other attorney' you pick there. I hand picked a lemon out of a list there after having emailed, called and talked to

numerous ones thinking I had a good one. The site does go more in depth about problems and Laurel has a free chat there if you can catch her.

You said Marc was not very helpful...I am curious, why ? He rocks !

[Ratty and C 13]

In regards to this post, Laurel Scott is a very capable top attorney with misrep waivers, I don't know how she is with returned K1's.

Be careful which 'other attorney' you pick there. I hand picked a lemon out of a list there after having emailed, called and talked to

numerous ones thinking I had a good one. The site does go more in depth about problems and Laurel has a free chat there if you can catch her.

You said Marc was not very helpful...I am curious, why ? He rocks !

[Darnell 8,479]

although an interview for her was mentioned (she not attend it)

did she have an interview letter? The Consular casefile number would have been on that interview letter, fwiw.

You might want to ping Marc Ellis again, request to pay for a 2 hour consult.

[Ratty and C 13]

Sorry for the delayed response Ebunolwa and Dernell, it seems like google chrome won't let me reply anymore - strange!

Yes I will be very careful with which lawyer to pick, thanks.

Mark Ellis is very good i'm sure and I didn't mean to imply otherwise but I have not received a reply from him other than an automatic reply that he's travelling, so I contacted his associate and the advice was really just to get the old case number and get married.

I will consult with someone local this week and make sure they are good, and first i'll write up a detailed description of our case so they have all the information. I do think it's time to get more help and advice though.

She doesn't have an interview letter, she thinks all the related paperwork was lost in a house move several years ago. I reminded her to be careful to keep everything related to our case.

Thanks for the advice folks!

[Darnell 8,479]

if i were in your shoes i'd be down at the embassy during american citizen services time, and

ask a lot of pointed questions, talking with the Vice Consul in charge of the IV unit, and

suggesting to that fella that the CO doing the interview has made a big mistake.

[Juliet and Steve 93]

Thanks for the reply, i was very respectful when contacting the ex, but he was adamant about not helping.

Yeah, i know what you're saying about keeping an open mind about him but there's more i know about him than i'm posting here, and not information from her but from news articles. He's bad news. I have been extremely careful not to antagonize him 'cos as you say maybe we need him.

I like the advice about the lawyer that is known to Manila...an immigration lawyer that specializes only in immigration and hopefully mostly or totally in Fil-Am cases would be best.

As a long shot: Laws vary by state but New Hampshire has an odd case of civil action: Intentional Infliction of Emotional Distress. Though it may be impossibly lengthy and expensive to pursue you could consider a writ against the ex as his withholding of easily produced information could be perceived by a jury as willful and intentional infliction of emotional damage.

Faced with a legal action and a possible lengthy jury trial the ex might back down immediately and give you what you need.

In NH a write cost $150, and you could file one but as in any legal actions there are risks too... a long shot, but one that is possible.

[del-2-5-2014 1,339]

I like the advice about the lawyer that is known to Manila...an immigration lawyer that specializes only in immigration and hopefully mostly or totally in Fil-Am cases would be best.

As a long shot: Laws vary by state but New Hampshire has an odd case of civil action: Intentional Infliction of Emotional Distress. Though it may be impossibly lengthy and expensive to pursue you could consider a writ against the ex as his withholding of easily produced information could be perceived by a jury as willful and intentional infliction of emotional damage.

Faced with a legal action and a possible lengthy jury trial the ex might back down immediately and give you what you need.

In NH a write cost $150, and you could file one but as in any legal actions there are risks too... a long shot, but one that is possible.

Not sure why we keep blaming this Guy and now we want to sue him.

The fiancee should also have this information.

My wife has a copy of everything sent or received from uscis/dos.

The entity that needs to get their act together is the embassy and stop bullying the op.