Muslims and pork

[Pam&Mbaye 0]

Morocco4ever,

I didn't say that I was offended by discussions on this thread, I said I was uncomfortable, which is a different thing. The one thing about posting on the internet is that no one can hear the tone of your voice when you are trying to make a point. If you could hear me you would find that the tone I wish to convey is one of a sincere desire to obey Allah and to also share what information I have about Islam. So to you Morocco4ever, as I stated earlier I do apologize if my question was taken incorrectly. I understand your situation about it being difficult to find an Islamic center near you and yes reading the Qur'an is very much recommended and seeking help from your husband is a good thing. Also know that Muslims who are either born into this deen and converted Muslims who have practiced Islam for many, many years can all tell you that as you continue to learn about Islam that you can not know everything just by reading the Qur'an without getting additional teaching from a learned person in Islam. This is why so many people devote so much time to learning Islam and the many different areas within Islam, such as hadith, tafseer, fiqh etc.

Also, please know that when I post in here concerning matters on Islam, I try my best to give reference to the Qur'an so as not to speak something that is not true. I don't feel like I was flamed, although I felt close to it

With that said Allahu Alim, and the matter is closed for me.

Thank you for your kind words, I feel they are definitely genuine....oh and before I forget...all the best to you on your visa journey and may Allah reward you for your sincere desire to learn more about this deen.

[peezey 0]

As for the rest of the comments on the forum, I find it very interesting that a simple question such as mine could spark such passion to the point that I almost feel as though I am being flamed by my Muslim brothers and sisters for sharing hadith and the Qur'an. I make no apologies for sharing the Qur'an with anyone as it is the PERFECT word of Allah in which there are no errors.

The word of god as revealed may not have errors, but it certianly is not crystal clear, hence the need for hadith and every other recognized opinion in the last 1300 years. Furthermore, just because you understand the words one way doesn't mean all read them the same way. Are you suggesting all muslims of the world are in agreement about everything?

As Sophia said last week, Islam is not for the intellectually lazy. It is incumbent upon all muslims to ask questions and investigate. How would there be 1300 years of opinion if no one questioned anything?

No one is flaming you, however, there are diverse opinions here, and expressing them does not mean anyone is disregarding the word of God.

Edited December 16, 2006 by peezey

[Pam&Mbaye 0]

Peezy,

I don't think you read my very last post. I think if you go back and re-read it I think you will find that what you have said I am in agreement with, you might not have seen it. I think the last post will answer the question you just posted to me. Sneak a peek and I think you will agree I am on the same page as you. Thanks

[amal 4]

I asked my husband this question and he said..... pork is not allowed because:

1. God said so

2. It is unclean due to eating its own feces and the excretions of other animals including humans

3. It can cause trichinosis

4. It is considered to be the closest meat to human flesh

We discussed the fact that times and things were different back in the day compared to now and that now we have ways to vaccinate animals against diseases. We also raise animals in a much cleaner environment than back then. His answer was as follows:

When God made these rules, He knew all about what the future held. If he wanted us to allow pork after vaccinations were invented, He would have said so.

I couldn't argue with that...

[~Jackie~ 30]

That was a wise answer from your husband to your question.

Jackie

[Aymerlu 3]

I grew up on a farm where my parents raised hogs......that kinda did me in from ever wanting to eat pork. They are nasty, nasty, nasty.

[Jenn! 918]

I grew up on a farm where my parents raised hogs......that kinda did me in from ever wanting to eat pork. They are nasty, nasty, nasty.

Ewww, reminds me of Hannibal!

[Caladan 19]

Islam has such a rich philosophical tradition that it's hard to believe that it could ever be characterized as a faith where you do what God says unquestioningly.

[Saddle Bronc 124]

Not everyone in this forum is Muslim.

It's on VJ, so open to all registered VJ posters (including those who otherwise have nothing to do with ME/NA)

Edited December 16, 2006 by CherryXS

[mybackpages 0]

Not everyone in this forum is Muslim.

It's on VJ, so open to all registered VJ posters (including those who otherwise have nothing to do with ME/NA)

well and not everyone in ME/NA is muslim.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

The last time I looked, the title of this topic is "Muslims and pork, Why don't they eat it?". So, while anyone, Muslim or non-Muslim, is free to post, the fact is, practicing Muslims (I'm Muslim) believe that God's direct commands are not to be challenged. Since pork is explicitly forbidden by God, then the answer to the topic question is God having forbidden its consumption is why most Muslims don't eat it. Plain and simple, that is the answer whether you agree with it or not, or believe it to be blind following. This is the evidence from the Quran:

He has only forbidden you dead meat, and blood, and the flesh of swine, and that on which any other name has been invoked besides that of God. But if one is forced by necessity, without willful disobedience, nor transgressing due limits, then is he guiltless. For God is Oft-Forgiving Most Merciful. [2:173]

Forbidden to you for food are: Dead meat, blood, the flesh of swine, and that on which has been invoked the name of other than God. That which has been killed by strangling, or by a violent blow, or by a headlong fall, or by being gored to death; that which has been partly eaten by a wild animal; unless you are able to slaughter it in due form; that which is sacrificed on stone altars; forbidden also is the division of meat by raffling with arrows: That is impiety. This day have those who reject faith given up all hope of your religion: Yet fear them not but fear Me. This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favor upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion. But if any is forced by hunger, with no inclination to transgression, God is indeed Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. [5:3]

Say: "I find not in the message received by me by inspiration any meat forbidden to be eaten by one who wishes to eat it, unless it be dead meat, or blood poured forth, or the flesh of swine. For it is an abomination - or, what is impious, meat on which a name has been invoked, other than God's". But even so, if a person is forced by necessity, without willful disobedience, nor transgressing due limits, your Lord is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. [6:145]

He has only forbidden you dead meat, and blood, and the flesh of swine, and any food over which the name of other than God has been invoked. But if one is forced by necessity, without willful disobedience, nor transgressing due limits, then God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. [16:115]

Insha'allah, that will help you understand. If you believe in a Holy Book and that there is a God whose Word must be obeyed, this will be easy for you to grasp.

Edited December 16, 2006 by szsz

[peezey 0]

szsz....I'm confused. I realize this is a dead thread that's been revived, but on the first page you gave potential anthropological reasons for making pork haram. Are you saying now that studying these potential reasons questions the word of god?

I always feel like I need to make a disclaimer soooo: I am not asking this out for any other reason than I'm curious where the line is drawn, as I am not a person of a book, nor do I believe there is a God who must be obeyed, this is not second nature to me.

[mybackpages 0]

szsz....I'm confused. I realize this is a dead thread that's been revived, but on the first page you gave potential anthropological reasons for making pork haram. Are you saying now that studying these potential reasons questions the word of god?

I always feel like I need to make a disclaimer soooo: I am not asking this out for any other reason than I'm curious where the line is drawn, as I am not a person of a book, nor do I believe there is a God who must be obeyed, this is not second nature to me.

Well let me get you off the hook and propose this idea. (surely I can upset more people than you )

Muslims have no doubt as to the authenticity of these verses as great care has been taken historically to protect the original text. But we also know these verses were revealed as to specific moments. No verse can be taken out of that context. Quotring a verse from the Quran doe snot mean the answer is simple, explicit or prohibited from inquiry.

[peezey 0]

szsz....I'm confused. I realize this is a dead thread that's been revived, but on the first page you gave potential anthropological reasons for making pork haram. Are you saying now that studying these potential reasons questions the word of god?

I always feel like I need to make a disclaimer soooo: I am not asking this out for any other reason than I'm curious where the line is drawn, as I am not a person of a book, nor do I believe there is a God who must be obeyed, this is not second nature to me.

Well let me get you off the hook and propose this idea. (surely I can upset more people than you )

Muslims have no doubt as to the authenticity of these verses as great care has been taken historically to protect the original text. But we also know these verses were revealed as to specific moments. No verse can be taken out of that context. Quotring a verse from the Quran doe snot mean the answer is simple, explicit or prohibited from inquiry.

This is what I learned while studying in college (from a jewish mystic who was in love with Morocco and moroccans, but that is a whole different thread ), but I know that nuance and culture are completely absent from my POV.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

Well let me get you off the hook and propose this idea. (surely I can upset more people than you )

Muslims have no doubt as to the authenticity of these verses as great care has been taken historically to protect the original text. But we also know these verses were revealed as to specific moments. No verse can be taken out of that context. Quotring a verse from the Quran doe snot mean the answer is simple, explicit or prohibited from inquiry.

There is no absolute to the idea that quotes from the Quran do not denote a simple answer. The fact is, the Quran is only about 10% legislative, and those legislative directives are not to be challenged. The rest is interpretive, advisory and/or discretionary, and many can be taken in context.

The reason why I posted the ayat about pork is to show that they are not interpretive, advisory nor discretionary. Unlike other ayat, such as those about hijab or interfaith marriage, there is no ambiguity in their wording. Also, considering that the command has also been given in the OT, as I mentioned before, there is a basis to believe that the command is a repeat of the directive that had been given to the Hebrews, but ignored by the Jewish sect that evolved into Christianity.

Yes, peezy, I did mention an anthopological view early in the thread, but that does in no way preclude the Quran. The Word is for all times, and while it has been delivered to all people acknowledging their own context, an absolutist command does not allow for context or improvements in food storage in seeking to bypass it.

Edited December 16, 2006 by szsz