George Zimmerman's Lawyer Wants Jurors To See Photos Of Handgun, Pot Plants Found On Trayvon Martin's Cell Phone

[B_J 2,752]

You're a teacher, yes? Imagine if you went to the principal's office about a particular student that you were concerned about. You say to the principal, "He's up to no good," to which he replies, "What is it specifically, that makes you believe he is?"

"I don't know. He just looks like he's up to something."

Principal: "Okay, BJ. Thanks for coming into my office and bringing up your concerns. Let me know when you have evidence that supports that claim."

You walk out frustrated with the principal for not believing you, or you understand how foolish you sounded for making unsubstantiated claims against someone?

Being out on a rainy night; hanging around in front of a club house that had been broken into previously, looking in the windows. That is suspicious behavior. It doesn't matter the race of the person or if they are wearing a hoodie. It is odd for a person to be there, at that time, for no reason.

Of course, in hindsight, we know that TM wasn't doing anything, but GZ couldn't know that at the time. If I lived in the neighborhood, I would want someone calling the cops if they saw what GZ saw.

[Penny Lane 8,159]

gz called about a suspicious person. that's not against the law, is it?

it should also be very clear that tm didn't want gz's head to go unblemished.

Not at all. GZ loved calling the cops constantly. The fact that he called them on TM for no reason doesn't surprise me at all. It's his right to do so, as irrational as it is.

If all he'd done was call the cops, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

[JohnR! 5,495]

Of course, in hindsight, we know that TM wasn't doing anything, but GZ couldn't know that at the time. If I lived in the neighborhood, I would want someone calling the cops if they saw what GZ saw.

There is a world of difference between 'calling the cops' and 'shooting at an unarmed person'.

[JohnR! 5,495]

If all he'd done was call the cops, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

He didn't need cops. He had a gun that transformed him from the coward he is into a superhero.

[B_J 2,752]

There is a world of difference between 'calling the cops' and 'shooting at an unarmed person'.

One of those rare posts that everybody will agree with.

[JohnR! 5,495]

One of those rare posts that everybody will agree with.

That seems to be the point many appear to have missed. One can call the cops for any reason one wants. There is no argument that GZ did nothing out of the ordinary by calling the cops in reaction to something that seemed strange or out of place in his opinion.

However it is a flight in unmitigated fancy to leap from that point to finding motive and rationale to justify him murdering TM.

[Ban Hammer 13,135]

There is a world of difference between 'calling the cops' and 'shooting at an unarmed person'.

why yes, you can only shoot someone who's both armed and bashing your head into the pavement - not just bashing your head into the pavement.

However it is a flight in unmitigated fancy to leap from that point to finding motive and rationale to justify him murdering TM.

see the above.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Being out on a rainy night; hanging around in front of a club house that had been broken into previously, looking in the windows. That is suspicious behavior. It doesn't matter the race of the person or if they are wearing a hoodie. It is odd for a person to be there, at that time, for no reason.

Of course, in hindsight, we know that TM wasn't doing anything, but GZ couldn't know that at the time. If I lived in the neighborhood, I would want someone calling the cops if they saw what GZ saw.

Where in that transcript did GZ convey that to the dispatcher?

Dispatcher

Sanford Police Department.

Zimmerman

Hey we've had some break-ins in my neighborhood, and there's a real suspicious guy, uh, it's Retreat View Circle, um, the best address I can give you is 111 Retreat View Circle. This guy looks like he's up to no good, or he's on drugs or something. It's raining and he's just walking around, looking about.

There's nothing substantive in GZ's suspicion of TM in that statement. It's all conjecture.

Dispatcher

Did you see what he was wearing?

Zimmerman

Yeah. A dark hoodie, like a grey hoodie, and either jeans or sweatpants and white tennis shoes. He's here now, he was just staring.

Dispatcher

OK, he's just walking around the area…

Zimmerman

looking at all the houses.

Dispatcher

OK…

Zimmerman

Now he's just staring at me.

This is critical, because it shows how GZ's behavior (staring at TM) was effecting TM's behavior. We know GZ was staring at him while driving his car really slow from the gf's phone conversation with TM. Was GZ hoping that by making his attention on TM known, that it would deter him from 'breaking the law?' That doesn't make sense because he didn't he get out of his vehicle or unroll his window, identify himself as a patrolling the neighborhood.

Zimmerman

Yeah, now he's coming towards me.

Dispatcher

OK.

Zimmerman

He's got his hand in his waistband. And he's a black male.

We can assume that GZ was still in his vehicle at this time and there was a considerable amount of distance between the two. Again, why didn't he open his door, wave to TM and identify himself? That is if he was trying to deter TM from 'breaking the law.' That's because, IMO, GZ was not trying to deter, but rather he was being confrontational by making his attention on TM known, staring at him, following him. He was looking for confrontation. I believe that is what the jurors will conclude as well.

[lostinblue 1,989]

That seems to be the point many appear to have missed. One can call the cops for any reason one wants. There is no argument that GZ did nothing out of the ordinary by calling the cops in reaction to something that seemed strange or out of place in his opinion.

However it is a flight in unmitigated fancy to leap from that point to finding motive and rationale to justify him murdering TM.

Just the fear of some one on top of you trying to kill you by smashing your head against cement.

[JohnR! 5,495]

why yes, you can only shoot someone who's both armed and bashing your head into the pavement - not just bashing your head into the pavement.

see the above.

That is what you get for taking the law in your own hands. You get your head bashed and goe to jail for murder.

It is as though there is a cautionary tale in there, somewhere...

[JohnR! 5,495]

Just the fear of some one on top of you trying to kill you by smashing your head against cement.

All the more reason to wait for the cops, which seems to be the prevailing opinion.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

That is what you get for taking the law in your own hands. You get your head bashed and goe to jail for murder.

It is as though there is a cautionary tale in there, somewhere...

Don't take GZ's version of events as gospel the way these guys are. The physical evidence contradicts that claim.

[JohnR! 5,495]

Don't take GZ's version of events as gospel the way these guys are. The physical evidence contradicts that claim.

Even if you do, there is no escaping from the fact he confronted TM deliberately. It was not his job to do so nor was he acting in any official capacity when he did. I bet his ego got bruised when he got physical and had his tuckus kicked by a black dude.

Edited May 31, 2013 by Gegel

[GandD 5,966]

That is what you get for taking the law in your own hands. You get your head bashed and goe to jail for murder.

No. Physical assault is only justified for defense. Physical assault is never justified because someone's being an idiot.

[B_J 2,752]

We can assume that GZ was still in his vehicle at this time and there was a considerable amount of distance between the two. Again, why didn't he open his door, wave to TM and identify himself? That is if he was trying to deter TM from 'breaking the law.' That's because, IMO, GZ was not trying to deter, but rather he was being confrontational by making his attention on TM known, staring at him, following him. He was looking for confrontation. I believe that is what the jurors will conclude as well.

I guess I just disagree that he wanted to be confrontational. He could have confronted him in front of the club house or when he walked by his vehicle. Instead, he just stayed on the phone talking to the police. I think that's what most would recommend he do?