Tesla repays federal loan nearly 10 years early

[RGinWA 816]

Let me translate that. -- I have nothing to back up my silly assertions, goodbye

Here is a list of the failed or failing companies and how much it cost. Add it up.. It's Billions with a Big B. So where did that money come from ?? It appears your haughty presumed arrogance on my comprehension is a bit premature.

Perhaps we should have invested in man made dams like hoover. You really make this easy.

1. Evergreen Solar ($25 million)*
2. SpectraWatt ($500,000)*
3. Solyndra ($535 million)*
4. Beacon Power ($43 million)*
5. Nevada Geothermal ($98.5 million)
6. SunPower ($1.2 billion)
7. First Solar ($1.46 billion)
8. Babcock and Brown ($178 million)
9. EnerDel’s subsidiary Ener1 ($118.5 million)*
10. Amonix ($5.9 million)
11. Fisker Automotive ($529 million)
12. Abound Solar ($400 million)*
13. A123 Systems ($279 million)*
14. Willard and Kelsey Solar Group ($700,981)*
15. Johnson Controls ($299 million)
16. Brightsource ($1.6 billion)
17. ECOtality ($126.2 million)
18. Raser Technologies ($33 million)*
19. Energy Conversion Devices ($13.3 million)*
20. Mountain Plaza, Inc. ($2 million)*
21. Olsen’s Crop Service and Olsen’s Mills Acquisition Company ($10 million)*
22. Range Fuels ($80 million)*
23. Thompson River Power ($6.5 million)*
24. Stirling Energy Systems ($7 million)*
25. Azure Dynamics ($5.4 million)*
26. GreenVolts ($500,000)
27. Vestas ($50 million)
28. LG Chem’s subsidiary Compact Power ($151 million)
29. Nordic Windpower ($16 million)*
30. Navistar ($39 million)
31. Satcon ($3 million)*
32. Konarka Technologies Inc. ($20 million)*
33. Mascoma Corp. ($100 million)

I'm going to need a list of the success stories to balance this one sided argument, because if only 33 failed there's got to be THOUSANDS who are a success. Because I know its a lot more than a billion in stimulus, grants and loans.

Plus a little tip, we spent a billion in cash in a few weeks looking for WMD's with NO RETURN on investment. To top it off we didn't even get ONE WMD?

Not every company is a winner...nice to focus on only the spending to the failed companies with no thought of what that spending stimulates or who the successes were. Probably from a Conservative think tank right?

[GandD 5,966]

I thought Al Gore invented the Internet. I am confused

Nope, the military created the technology, universities connected it. But then, you knew that.

[RGinWA 816]

I thought Al Gore invented the Internet. I am confused

Ding ding ding...yet another GOP talking point...brilliant!

[GandD 5,966]

I'm going to need a list of the success stories to balance this one sided argument, because if only 33 failed there's got to be THOUSANDS who are a success. Because I know its a lot more than a billion in stimulus, grants and loans.

Plus a little tip, we spent a billion in cash in a few weeks looking for WMD's with NO RETURN on investment. To top it off we didn't even get ONE WMD?

Not every company is a winner...nice to focus on only the spending to the failed companies with no thought of what that spending stimulates or who the successes were. Probably from a Conservative think tank right?

What if thousands failed and two changed the world. Don't all innovators know that equation?

[RGinWA 816]

What if thousands failed and two changed the world. Don't all innovators know that equation?

But I want every dollar to be a winner! Why can't the government only choose WINNERS! Its un-American to fund innovation!

[Karee 4,191]

Still it's hard to deny the capability of the government to provide technology, infrastructure, and regulations to create a spawning ground for private enterprise while helping itself. Highways and the internet helped commerce in the private sector on a massive scale. Plus the government now utilizes both to improve its overall functionality.

There's still a big difference in my mind between setting up a nationwide road system or data network, and loaning some private company billions of dollars so he can build and sell expensive cars for a profit. That's the problem I have with it.

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

I'm going to need a list of the success stories to balance this one sided argument, because if only 33 failed there's got to be THOUSANDS who are a success. Because I know its a lot more than a billion in stimulus, grants and loans.

Plus a little tip, we spent a billion in cash in a few weeks looking for WMD's with NO RETURN on investment. To top it off we didn't even get ONE WMD?

Not every company is a winner...nice to focus on only the spending to the failed companies with no thought of what that spending stimulates or who the successes were. Probably from a Conservative think tank right?

You tied WMD and Govt loan guarantees to political fat cats all into the same paragraph.

You could have just said it's ok because Bush did _____________

Is that really all you Libs have is "Yes but what about something Bush did" It's so predictable, but at the same time amusing.

[GandD 5,966]

There's still a big difference in my mind between setting up a nationwide road system or data network, and loaning some private company billions of dollars so he can build and sell expensive cars for a profit. That's the problem I have with it.

I agree. Govt should help ease the startup costs of new industries by providing a strong foundation for businesses to operate on. Loan sharking is, in my mind, a half a$$ attempt at this. Subsidies, grants, and tax incintives are the real way to accomplish this. Businesses need some help creating a new industry but they have to accept some of the risk/cost as they'll get nearly all of the reward.

[RGinWA 816]

You tied WMD and Govt loan guarantees to political fat cats all into the same paragraph.

You could have just said it's ok because Bush did _____________

Is that really all you Libs have is "Yes but what about something Bush did" It's so predictable, but at the same time amusing.

I'm equating outrage for the billion you calculated in your argument to a few weeks in Iraq. It's a point about the absurdity of the outrage based on a potential gain verses cost. Below is so you can understand it in layman's terms.

WMD's = no potential and no gain

Investment in Innovation = Major potential gain

One good and nobody dies...one bad and...well you know.

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

I'm equating outrage for the billion you calculated in your argument to a few weeks in Iraq. It's a point about the absurdity of the outrage based on a potential gain verses cost. Below is so you can understand it in layman's terms.

WMD's = no potential and no gain

Investment in Innovation = Major potential gain

One good and nobody dies...one bad and...well you know.

Ok the Dems started a war in Nam that wasted Billions and cost many thousands of lives. How far back you wanna go, I am game.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Here is a list of the failed or failing companies and how much it cost. Add it up.. It's Billions with a Big B. So where did that money come from ?? It appears your haughty presumed arrogance on my comprehension is a bit premature.

No, it actually wasn't premature at all as it turns out. The fact of the matter is and remains that the losses of the program are small. The only way you can come up with a list worth "billions" of losses is by including a company that made headlines for laying off some of it's workforce - but is still very much in business - and another that is indeed looking less than stellar but also still appears to be above water. Those two make up the lion's share of your list adding up to "billions". These are your Big B, if you will. Yet the loan guarantees on these two are not at all lost money. Not in the real world, anyways. Maybe over at Fox News they are but in reality, they're not.

Again, losses thus far are at 2% of the program and at 10% of the reserves specifically set aside by Congress for such losses as part of the program. (Yes, gasp, they knew all along that some of the loans would go bad.) But when you count the economic benefit that these companies in total bring back to the table then the picture will look even better. Yes, First Solar may have laid off 2,000 people at some point last year but it was employing roughly 7,000 people when it did and was still employing roughly 5,000 after that. The company made Forbes' list of the 25 fastest growing companies in America. They're alive and kicking. That's thousands of additional taxpayers and consumers and thousands less unemployed. And that's just one company.

[B_J 2,752]

Plus a little tip, we spent a billion in cash in a few weeks looking for WMD's with NO RETURN on investment. To top it off we didn't even get ONE WMD?

But at least we got rid of a dictator.

That's for you, GandD.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

dupe post...

Edited May 23, 2013 by Mr. Big Dog

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

I'm going to need a list of the success stories to balance this one sided argument, because if only 33 failed there's got to be THOUSANDS who are a success. Because I know its a lot more than a billion in stimulus, grants and loans.

First you gotta verify what's presented. Always remember the sources that folk like the Nature Boy use. Fact is that out of these 33, the two biggest benefactors of the loan program are still very much in business employing thousands of people who pay taxes and drive their local economies as consumers. One of them also managed to reduce manufacturing cost of panels from $1.85 per watt in 2010 to under $0.70 by 2012. They're doing exactly what they were supported for doing. And the RWNJ hate every bit of that. They hate innovation, they hate progress and they sure hate success.

Edited May 23, 2013 by Mr. Big Dog

[GandD 5,966]

You tied WMD and Govt loan guarantees to political fat cats all into the same paragraph.

You could have just said it's ok because Bush did _____________

Is that really all you Libs have is "Yes but what about something Bush did" It's so predictable, but at the same time amusing.

Please change your member title to "Yes but what about something Bush did?"