US vs UK Healthcare

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

Why on earth would most people from UK etc come to the US, it has the most overpriced hospital system in the world.

Results.

Either that, or all the Canadians coming here are just stupid and we make hundreds of millions of dollars on them.

Whatd'ya think?

Edited June 2, 2013 by Gary and Alla

[Boiler 45,753]

38th in the world?

One below Costa Rica.

I am sure there is certain exceptional specialists in the US, but that would be for pretty unusual situations.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

38th in the world?

One below Costa Rica.

I am sure there is certain exceptional specialists in the US, but that would be for pretty unusual situations.

What matters is that we are just below Canada. And the vast majority of Canadians live "just above" the USA. Drive a few minutes south and you get what you need... today. You can eat breakfast in Montreal, drive to Vermont Radiology and be back home with your MRI results by lunch.

[Bugs 455]

Weighing the pros and cons of each, I wouldn't mind paying a bit extra in taxes to have the universal health care system Great Britian has. And I think it is safe to say the majority of citizens here would feel the same if it ever reached a national ballot.

[Boiler 45,753]

What matters is that we are just below Canada. And the vast majority of Canadians live "just above" the USA. Drive a few minutes south and you get what you need... today. You can eat breakfast in Montreal, drive to Vermont Radiology and be back home with your MRI results by lunch.

I have never been to Canada and I have only a rudimentary knowledge of the Canadian system.

With the few exception I was responding to your comment about people in the Uk wanting to come to the US.

I remain unclear as to why you think they would?

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I have never been to Canada and I have only a rudimentary knowledge of the Canadian system.

With the few exception I was responding to your comment about people in the Uk wanting to come to the US.

I remain unclear as to why you think they would?

For the same reasons Canadians do. I have been to both Canada and UK and find that motivation of the two populations is similar. (who'da thunk it)

You have a lot of pain in your shoulder. The Canadian Dr. cannot refer you for the surgery you need without an MRI and there are more MRI locations available in Burlington (pop. 42,000) than in Montreal (pop. 2.5 million) So the Dr. says "you can wait or you can get results today with which I can then get you referred for surgery" In other words...line jumping.

It will cost you $400, maybe have lunch at Luenig's save 15% sales tax on some shopping, buy a tank of gas for a 40% savings and be home for dinner.

Which UK citizen would not jump the line for $400 and a 45 minute drive? If you could offer a K-1 visa in 30 days for $400 extra you think anyone at VJ with a UK fiancee would do it?

And I may add that I am not guessing. This exact scenario supports a huge medical complex here with parking lots filled with cars from Quebec.

Edited June 3, 2013 by Gary and Alla

[Bugs 455]

For the same reasons Canadians do. I have been to both Canada and UK and find that motivation of the two populations is similar. (who'da thunk it)

You have a lot of pain in your shoulder. The Canadian Dr. cannot refer you for the surgery you need without an MRI and there are more MRI locations available in Burlington (pop. 42,000) than in Montreal (pop. 2.5 million) So the Dr. says "you can wait or you can get results today with which I can then get you referred for surgery" In other words...line jumping.

It will cost you $400, maybe have lunch at Luenig's save 15% sales tax on some shopping, buy a tank of gas for a 40% savings and be home for dinner.

Which UK citizen would not jump the line for $400 and a 45 minute drive? If you could offer a K-1 visa in 30 days for $400 extra you think anyone at VJ with a UK fiancee would do it?

And I may add that I am not guessing. This exact scenario supports a huge medical complex here with parking lots filled with cars from Quebec.

Sounds to me then the solution of having the best of both worlds then would be to have a universal health care system but allow for private practices for those who want speedy care.

[Boiler 45,753]

Why not take the 45 minute drive in the UK?

Why come to the US of all places?

[ValerieA 350]

I keep hearing down here that so many Canadians come down to the US to pay for healthcare because they can't get it in Canada (at least not timely), yet I myself have never met anyone who did so. Research brings up only 2 studies that give numbers:

http://content.healthaffairs.org/content/21/3/19.full

http://www.fraserinstitute.org/uploadedFiles/fraser-ca/Content/research-news/research/articles/leaving-canada-for-medical-care-2011-ff0712.pdf

The second one is newer, but I am suspicious of their methodology, frankly. Still, it estimates that only 46,159 Canadian patients got their procedures done in the US - a very minor percentage of the population (the older article indicates it is much lower still).

There are definitely things that need to be fixed in Canada's system, it is far from perfect - we only got a B on our last report card. I am happy to see that Ontario is partnering with Detroit and other border US cities to provide faster care for some patients - the Ontario government still pays for it, but the patient is taken care of in a US hospital. We need more thinking like that, it's a win-win for both sides. Canada needs to focus more on the Japan and Italian models, to see how they are keeping their costs so much lower than ours while providing better care. Alas, I don't believe the US will ever accept any real form of universal health care.

There are a lot of myths that fly down here that make Canada's system seem much worse than it is. http://content.healthaffairs.org/content/21/3/19.full does a good job of debunking the most popular.

[Bugs 455]

Why not take the 45 minute drive in the UK?

Why come to the US of all places?

The wait time for specialized care.

[GandD 5,966]

Which UK citizen would not jump the line for $400 and a 45 minute drive? If you could offer a K-1 visa in 30 days for $400 extra you think anyone at VJ with a UK fiancee would do it?

Ftr, I would have paid extra to jump the k-1 line. I know this can be a sensitive issue on this site but hey, give me an option to pay my way in front of people and I'll probably do it.

[Boiler 45,753]

The wait time for specialized care.

In the circumstances we are talking about I find it difficult to believe it would be materially different.

I do know some of the top UK athletes have come over for surgery by Dr Steadman, in Colorado, due to his proven expertise in certain procedures.

Obviously it would have been quicker to be seen in the UK, 10 hour flight time for a start.

[Bugs 455]

In the circumstances we are talking about I find it difficult to believe it would be materially different.

I do know some of the top UK athletes have come over for surgery by Dr Steadman, in Colorado, due to his proven expertise in certain procedures.

Obviously it would have been quicker to be seen in the UK, 10 hour flight time for a start.

Wait times for specialist care have been known to last several months in Canada. I know someone personally from Canada who has a host of medical issues, and she often has this problem. Is this the case in the UK? If so, a flight to the U.S., where the wait time to see a specialist can be drastically shorter than that of several months, would be quicker, no matter how long the flight is.

[Boiler 45,753]

Well of course it depends. Like anything else. You can wait a long time or not.

One of my welcome to America moments was about a cyclist friend of a friend who was in a crash and was insistent nobody called an ambulance despite being in a bad way. A friend of mine goes through the VA and he seems to have to wait a long time for basic care.

To suggest that there is quick access to a specialist for all US residents seems not to reflect what I have heard.

[Gary and Alla 3,694]

I keep hearing down here that so many Canadians come down to the US to pay for healthcare because they can't get it in Canada (at least not timely), yet I myself have never met anyone who did so. Research brings up only 2 studies that give numbers:

http://content.healthaffairs.org/content/21/3/19.full

http://www.fraserinstitute.org/uploadedFiles/fraser-ca/Content/research-news/research/articles/leaving-canada-for-medical-care-2011-ff0712.pdf

The second one is newer, but I am suspicious of their methodology, frankly. Still, it estimates that only 46,159 Canadian patients got their procedures done in the US - a very minor percentage of the population (the older article indicates it is much lower still).

There are definitely things that need to be fixed in Canada's system, it is far from perfect - we only got a B on our last report card. I am happy to see that Ontario is partnering with Detroit and other border US cities to provide faster care for some patients - the Ontario government still pays for it, but the patient is taken care of in a US hospital. We need more thinking like that, it's a win-win for both sides. Canada needs to focus more on the Japan and Italian models, to see how they are keeping their costs so much lower than ours while providing better care. Alas, I don't believe the US will ever accept any real form of universal health care.

There are a lot of myths that fly down here that make Canada's system seem much worse than it is. http://content.healthaffairs.org/content/21/3/19.full does a good job of debunking the most popular.

You haven't met enough people then.

You act as though I am speculating. I live here. Burlington, VT. Fletcher Allen Healthcare. Google it. The only way a huge medical complex like this exists is because there is enough patients to fill it. There are not enough patients in all of Vermont (population 600,000) The entire state barely makes a good sized suburb.

I really am not going to continue to argue with clueless people who imagine that what is right here before my eyes doesn't exist. I would be cracked in the head to imagine your article is right...and my eyes are lying to me. Thousands of people here have imaginary paychecks and imaginary jobs?

Then, of course the article mentions the same thing in Ontario. Yes some of the patients here are covered by the Canadian healthcare system also, some are cash patients. You entire post makes no sense.

"I never met anyone...Ontario is doing it"

If the US ever truly has universal healtch care, like Canada's...Canadians are screwed!