US vs UK Healthcare

[Protocol417 161]

Sorry... I'm kind of new here, so I don't know if this is the right place for this sort of thing, but I'm trying to dive into this community and all that. It's a personal story, but it's political, as well.

Also sorry for the length. I never met a word that couldn't be made better by pairing it with about seven more

I recently returned from a trip to the UK to visit my fiance, during which we spent a few days in London visiting friends of mine. While there, an odd thing happened: I had a panic attack on the Tube. I'd always been a nervous flyer, but hadn't ever had issues on normal public transportation, and never in my life had a full-on panic attack. It just came out of nowhere, and I had no idea how to deal with it.

Despite every instinct in my body telling me otherwise, we went to the hospital.

I sat in the waiting room at A&E (emergency room) thinking of all the horrible things I'd heard about the NHS... wait times, rudeness, and so forth. But I have to say, it was the best experience I have ever had in a hospital. I was checked out within 10 minutes (keep in mind, this is in the middle of London, walking distance from the Houses of Parliament), and the nurse took great care to help me and keep me calm (I was still panicky and having difficulty controlling my breathing). I was transferred to Urgent Care (as I expected) and yes, I had to wait an hour there, but this was no issue to me as I was more than happy to let the people with broken limbs and in pain go ahead of me. The doctor was the most patient, caring doctor I've ever seen. I am so used to being rushed by doctors back in the US, who are just interested in the physical symptoms without any care to hear the details leading up to the issue at hand, but this doctor stopped me, made me go back, and asked me very detailed, very good questions. Knowing I was new to the NHS system, she took the time to explain it to me and tell me where I could go if I had another attack during my trip, or just had questions or felt the need to talk to someone. Doctors in the US I've seen, by contrast, will barely give you the time of day because it would cost them five seconds. (As a result I've developed a deep opposition to going to the clinic or hospital, even when I probably really should.)

The doctor at St. Thomas assured me that I wouldn't have to pay for my visit, and then apologetically informed me that the prescription she was writing for me would cost £7.85, as if she expected me to blow up over such a small cost! She then apologized for the "long wait" (as I looked at her incredulously). I got the same apology at the pharmacy. While in the waiting room at Urgent Care, so many people were complaining to the receptionist and passing doctors about the wait, but to be honest with you, I've experience similar waits at the emergency room at home (and I had blood gushing out of my nose), with nowhere near the level of service and care I got at St. Thomas (and of course at much greater cost... and yes, I do have insurance). I'm still a bit blown away by the whole thing.

I've heard lots of people say "well, they have such high taxes, that's how they pay for it!" but when my fiance and I actually sat down and compared our tax burden (hey, we've been Skyping for over two years, you run out of stuff to talk about eventually), we found out that it was about the same. The real difference in is sales tax/VAT: My sales tax is 10%, his VAT is 20%. But I have to pay for insurance, which costs me about $160 per month (and my employer much more than that). So I would have to spend about $1,600 on taxable items (twice the amount of my disposable income) for the difference between my sales tax and his VAT to be more than what I pay in insurance each month. In other words, if you add my health insurance in... I pay more than he does. And I get less. Unlike what most Brits seem to think, insurance does not pay for everything. Just walking in the door costs me $50. I get a little chuckle every time I tell a Brit friend of mine about how a colonoscopy cost me $500 (they either assume I don't have insurance or just sit there looking shocked). The real problem is back then, I could afford that... now, I couldn't. As a result, I pay $160 per month for something I can't afford to use but can't afford to be without. This isn't something the British have to worry about.

While it wasn't much fun spending a couple hours of my vacation in hospital, I walked away kind of glad for the experience. I really wish we could have something like the NHS in the States. When my fiance and I got engaged, we decided that we were going to live in the US. He loves Chicago, and work and my community came into the decision as well. But I'm starting to wonder if I should've considered living in England a bit more. In all likelihood, we will probably end up moving there eventually, once he's had his fill of living here. Healthcare is definitely one reason we'd go back.

[ImmemorialN 7]

Reading this makes me realise just how much I miss the NHS now that I'm state-side. I grew up with the NHS, it became the norm to me; and like many other British citizens, we get very used to it. Which in itself, makes it easy to ignore how great the service is and focus on the bad points.

It is true that, if you need to see a specialist, you can end up on a waiting list for months and months unless you are in a dire situation. However, as you correctly pointed out, during any urgent situation regardless of how much money you do or do not have, you will be looked after by a team of professionals. If you are admitted to hospital, you don't need to pay the prescription charges for any medication either. And yes, the charge is ridiculously low regardless of what medication you are prescribed!

Now, Dental on the NHS is another story...

[mota bhai 2,675]

Sorry... I'm kind of new here, so I don't know if this is the right place for this sort of thing, but I'm trying to dive into this community and all that. It's a personal story, but it's political, as well.

Also sorry for the length. I never met a word that couldn't be made better by pairing it with about seven more

I recently returned from a trip to the UK to visit my fiance, during which we spent a few days in London visiting friends of mine. While there, an odd thing happened: I had a panic attack on the Tube. I'd always been a nervous flyer, but hadn't ever had issues on normal public transportation, and never in my life had a full-on panic attack. It just came out of nowhere, and I had no idea how to deal with it.

Despite every instinct in my body telling me otherwise, we went to the hospital.

I sat in the waiting room at A&E (emergency room) thinking of all the horrible things I'd heard about the NHS... wait times, rudeness, and so forth. But I have to say, it was the best experience I have ever had in a hospital. I was checked out within 10 minutes (keep in mind, this is in the middle of London, walking distance from the Houses of Parliament), and the nurse took great care to help me and keep me calm (I was still panicky and having difficulty controlling my breathing). I was transferred to Urgent Care (as I expected) and yes, I had to wait an hour there, but this was no issue to me as I was more than happy to let the people with broken limbs and in pain go ahead of me. The doctor was the most patient, caring doctor I've ever seen. I am so used to being rushed by doctors back in the US, who are just interested in the physical symptoms without any care to hear the details leading up to the issue at hand, but this doctor stopped me, made me go back, and asked me very detailed, very good questions. Knowing I was new to the NHS system, she took the time to explain it to me and tell me where I could go if I had another attack during my trip, or just had questions or felt the need to talk to someone. Doctors in the US I've seen, by contrast, will barely give you the time of day because it would cost them five seconds. (As a result I've developed a deep opposition to going to the clinic or hospital, even when I probably really should.)

The doctor at St. Thomas assured me that I wouldn't have to pay for my visit, and then apologetically informed me that the prescription she was writing for me would cost £7.85, as if she expected me to blow up over such a small cost! She then apologized for the "long wait" (as I looked at her incredulously). I got the same apology at the pharmacy. While in the waiting room at Urgent Care, so many people were complaining to the receptionist and passing doctors about the wait, but to be honest with you, I've experience similar waits at the emergency room at home (and I had blood gushing out of my nose), with nowhere near the level of service and care I got at St. Thomas (and of course at much greater cost... and yes, I do have insurance). I'm still a bit blown away by the whole thing.

I've heard lots of people say "well, they have such high taxes, that's how they pay for it!" but when my fiance and I actually sat down and compared our tax burden (hey, we've been Skyping for over two years, you run out of stuff to talk about eventually), we found out that it was about the same. The real difference in is sales tax/VAT: My sales tax is 10%, his VAT is 20%. But I have to pay for insurance, which costs me about $160 per month (and my employer much more than that). So I would have to spend about $1,600 on taxable items (twice the amount of my disposable income) for the difference between my sales tax and his VAT to be more than what I pay in insurance each month. In other words, if you add my health insurance in... I pay more than he does. And I get less. Unlike what most Brits seem to think, insurance does not pay for everything. Just walking in the door costs me $50. I get a little chuckle every time I tell a Brit friend of mine about how a colonoscopy cost me $500 (they either assume I don't have insurance or just sit there looking shocked). The real problem is back then, I could afford that... now, I couldn't. As a result, I pay $160 per month for something I can't afford to use but can't afford to be without. This isn't something the British have to worry about.

While it wasn't much fun spending a couple hours of my vacation in hospital, I walked away kind of glad for the experience. I really wish we could have something like the NHS in the States. When my fiance and I got engaged, we decided that we were going to live in the US. He loves Chicago, and work and my community came into the decision as well. But I'm starting to wonder if I should've considered living in England a bit more. In all likelihood, we will probably end up moving there eventually, once he's had his fill of living here. Healthcare is definitely one reason we'd go back.

I have nothing intelligent to add, except to thank you for your contribution and hope you don't get scared off by the right-wing nuts who are bound to descend upon this thread and accuse you of having communist sympathies or of being a sockpuppet of one of the "caba girls".

[james&olya 1,121]

As a US health care professional I am disgusted by the way our system is organized around and entirely driven by profit motives. It is long past time for the politicians to stop selling their votes to the special interests and instead listen to their constituents! I am greatly disappointed in how eager Obama rolled over for those interests and did not even include a public option in his health care bill. The American public have indicated again and again in the polls that they would support at least going to a single payer system ('Medicare-for-all') if not going to a British style health care system (much like the VA or the US military health care system). While changing to such a system might decrease my personal income a bit I would have a great deal more satisfaction working in a more socially and morally responsible system. But now that our supreme court has pushed the status quo even further toward the corporations in their Citizens United decision I expect we will not soon see significant improvements.

[GandD 5,966]

I have nothing intelligent to add, except to thank you for your contribution and hope you don't get scared off by the right-wing nuts who are bound to descend upon this thread and accuse you of having communist sympathies or of being a sockpuppet of one of the "caba girls".

Second

[mota bhai 2,675]

I am greatly disappointed in how eager Obama rolled over for those interests and did not even include a public option in his health care bill.

A public option was never going to pass in the Senate. The conservadem Senators made that very clear.

Like it or not, Obama can't sign anything into law until both the Senate and the HoR pass it. He is President, not Emperor.

You hippies need to ease up on the bullsh1t criticism. If it was up to you guys, we'd limit our choices to nirvana and nothing.

[james&olya 1,121]

A public option was never going to pass in the Senate. The conservadem Senators made that very clear.

Like it or not, Obama can't sign anything into law until both the Senate and the HoR pass it. He is President, not Emperor.

You hippies need to ease up on the bullsh1t criticism. If it was up to you guys, we'd limit our choices to nirvana and nothing.

It is an indictment of our corrupt campaign finance system that the public option was doomed this way when such a large percentage of voters from both parties supported it. When will enough people stand up and demand real change?

[mota bhai 2,675]

It is an indictment of our corrupt campaign finance system that the public option was doomed this way when such a large percentage of voters from both parties supported it. When will enough people stand up and demand real change?

The polling firms routinely poll the electorate on which issues they care most about, and which they care less about. While you are correct in your statement that these polls have consistently shown that "large percentages of voters" do support campaign finance reform designed to reduce the corrupting influence of institutional cash, what you leave out (or choose to ignore) is that even larger percentages of voters rate the issue very low on their list of priorities.

And in case the hippies reading this haven't popped a vein yet, here's another issue that consistently rates low on voter priorities - the environment.

Hey hippies - choke on that.

[GandD 5,966]

So basically, if you want a public heathcare option in the polical spotlight, you need the kardashians or honey boo boo to endorce it.

[james&olya 1,121]

So basically, if you want a public heathcare option in the polical spotlight, you need the kardashians or honey boo boo to endorce it.

As pathetic as they are, we seem to have the government we deserve!

[mota bhai 2,675]

So basically, if you want a public heathcare option in the polical spotlight, you need the kardashians or honey boo boo to endorce it.

That sounds funny and the kind of glib ####### the "Oh, Americans are so stupid!" hippies eat up, but tell me this.

When was the last time Kim Kardashian spoke about jobs or the war on terror?

Both issues the American electorate, going by the polls, care deeply about.

[GandD 5,966]

That sounds funny and the kind of glib ####### the "Oh, Americans are so stupid!" hippies eat up, but tell me this.

When was the last time Kim Kardashian spoke about jobs or the war on terror?

Both issues the American electorate, going by the polls, care deeply about.

It's not that they're dumb, they just don't care. No one gives a ####### about healthcare until they need it. They might think about others that need healthcare, but people are rarely motivated until they or someone they care about need it. I pay $14 a week for my wife and I to have healthcare. Why would I ever opt for taxes that stand to increase the amount I pay for healthcare?

Now Islamists flying planes into buildings? Tax away. It's amazing how scared americans are of the rest of the world. Has to be a correlation to how many Americans travel outside of the country for pleasure.

[mota bhai 2,675]

It's not that they're dumb, they just don't care. No one gives a ####### about healthcare until they need it. They might think about others that need healthcare, but people are rarely motivated until they or someone they care about need it. I pay $14 a week for my wife and I to have healthcare. Why would I ever opt for taxes that stand to increase the amount I pay for healthcare?

Now Islamists flying planes into buildings? Tax away. It's amazing how scared americans are of the rest of the world. Has to be a correlation to how many Americans travel outside of the country for pleasure.

Looking down on people for not having the means to fly their families to Europe or Yemen and spend a week at a nice resort is the height of snobbery.

[BaBamSam 239]

The NHS is not a perfect system, but it definitely has benefits that we are seriously lacking here in the US. When I was in England on a student visa, I was eligible for the NHS and didn't have to give it a second thought if I got ill - a peace of mind I wish I had in the US. When I got seriously ill in the US (one of the first cases of swine flu here apparently), I put off going to the doctor/hospital because I couldn't afford it and I got worse and worse until I was forcibly taken to the hospital and then had to pay extortionate fees.

That said, the last time I spent 6 months in the UK I managed to get a severe bladder infection. My fiance took me to the nearest NHS hospital in a taxi as I couldn't walk and I was turned away. They would not see me despite being in obvious pain because I was not on the NHS. I had to walk a block to a private hospital to be seen. Still, I got seen by a doctor, given a prescription and pain killers for less than $100 so the shock of it being so affordable eased the blow of being turned away.

I would wholeheartedly endorse a VAT based tax system here - as I believe it's the fairest way to tax people as it acts as a usage fee. But that wouldn't fly with anyone here probably.

My fiance and I plan on living in London again eventually, for healthcare and many other reasons.

[GandD 5,966]

Looking down on people for not having the means to fly their families to Europe or Yemen and spend a week at a nice resort is the height of snobbery.

I'm not looking down on them. I just booked my first trip out of North America and I wouldn't be doing it if it wasn't so important to my wife. As you said it's hard for americans to travel like Europeans can since the tickets are so expensive. It doesn't change the fact that never leaving the states can cause a narrow, perhaps fearful view of the world.