State pushes to keep Trayvon Martin's past out of George Zimmerman trial

[B_J 2,752]

Okay, explain something to me. How could TM be the aggressor in this case? That's what baffles me when folks say he assaulted GZ. He was walking home minding his own business. In order for there to be aggression, there needs to be a confrontation, which happened how? Oh, that's right, GZ got out of his car and chased him on foot. Why can't anyone see this dude might have been scared and attacked out of pure fear? He was being chased by a grown man for no reason other than he looked suspicious.

There is a possible scenario where GZ has stopped chasing TM and he is walking back to his car. He doesn't even know where TM is. He is merely walking back to his vehicle to meet with the police. On his way, TM confronts him and starts the physical altercation.

You see no way where this is possible? Or you think it's possible but TM would still be innocent of any wrongdoing?

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

I get the story of the TM and GZ incident. How does that make TM's history irrelevant? We don't know what happened when they met.

So you could be TM and I couldn't? Is that what you're saying? Because you don't think white people and black people have something in common? This is an emotional argument that doesn't really have a basis in objectivity.

I'm not sure why Sean Bell is relevant here.

As far as stop and frisk, I wasn't aware that the stop and frisk program involved shooting and killing those that were stopped.

What I am saying is that police treat white people completely differently than they do minorities. You can't be TM, why? Because you will never be treated that way. It's not emotional, it's a fact. If you can show me the non minority equal of TM, Jordan Davis, Sean Bell, and countless other black men who were killed in similar situations, please do. http://www.theroot.com/views/ows-blackness We deal with it every single day.

"I knew that wouldn't do anything besides exacerbate the situation, but I wanted to comment on it and reasonably say, "Um ... so there's this ... " I didn't want to take away from the issue of the abuse that the occupiers were receiving, but I wanted to acknowledge the irony of the collective outrage over an issue that's become so commonplace within my community that small children are taught never to disobey a police officer, to quietly go along with whatever is happening in order not to be on the receiving end of abuse."

While the Occupiers were dealing with such abuse, during civil disobedience, communities of color suffer these type of injustices simply because it's Wednesday, and they may look like someone else. That's what happens to us -- and it's accepted as if it were just a day of the week."

I used Sean Bell as an example of what happens when you have police and black men in the mix. When has there ever been a white person shot 50+ times, and not had a weapon? When has a white person been killed for playing his music too loud, but swore there was a weapon in the car(there wasn't one)? Now, folks are saying, if you're black or latino you shouldn't wear hoodies because that can get you killed:Fox News Channel host Geraldo Rivera claimed that Martin's "gangsta style clothing" was "as much responsible for Trayvon Martin's death as George Zimmerman was".Rivera was quoted saying, "I am urging the parents of black and Latino youngsters particularly to not let their children go out wearing hoodies." Faced with outrage over his statements, Rivera apologized, saying that he had "obscured the main point that someone shot and killed an unarmed teenager".When a 7-Eleven surveillance video showing Martin making a purchase on the night of the shooting was released two months later, however, Rivera referred to the clothes he had been wearing as "thug wear". His comments were criticized by the Martin family attorney, Benjamin Crump, who compared them to people blaming rape victims for wearing short skirts. Are you kidding me?

[Harsh_77 718]

good grief. in the very link you posted, they detail exactly what was edited, how it was edited and what parts were possibly misinterpreted.

i know rwingers have a hard time accepting that liberals do in fact have functioning brains, and that these brains are capable of mastering reading comprehension (from multiple sources, even!), free thought and, get this, deductive reasoning. shocker, right?

Shocker is the liberal are not willing to give someone a fair trial, innocent until proven guilty is no longer valid with them.

[decocker 7,198]

And you might be correct. I don't really know what to think about it but I tend think both made poor choices. But I don't really know. The point was for certain peeps on here to quit acting like they know what happened when its all hearsay. People that assume TM was an angel and a victim are kidding themselves to the same extent as people who assume TM was a drugged out thug looking for trouble, The truth most likely exists somewhere in between and it leaves a bad taste in my mouth when people are condescending based about something with so many unknowns. If you think something, state it just don't be all up your own a$$ about it if you can't prove it 100%. Not directed at you BTW Marvin. I know what you think and in another thread you admitted the possibility (after being prodded a few times) that GZ might not be completely at fault.

hearsay? meh,

Shocker is the liberal are not willing to give someone a fair trial, innocent until proven guilty is no longer valid with them.

when did i say he shouldn't have a fair trial?

[GandD 5,966]

hearsay? meh,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hearsay

[GandD 5,966]

There is a possible scenario where GZ has stopped chasing TM and he is walking back to his car. He doesn't even know where TM is. He is merely walking back to his vehicle to meet with the police. On his way, TM confronts him and starts the physical altercation.

You see no way where this is possible? Or you think it's possible but TM would still be innocent of any wrongdoing?

Marvin admits the possibly here:

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/425164-jamie-foxxs-t-shirt-causes-an-outrage/page-18

Sorry, had to do a distro run.

Honestly it could have been self defense on both sides. I just want people to understand it could go both ways, because you have a slew of folks calling TM a criminal, thug, and lord knows things I can't post here, yet GZ painted at a defender of the neighborhood. Yet it's hard to formulate a unbiased opinion when you're a minority and it's a part of life for you. I've been profiled plenty of times and I know how it feels first hand. So even though I know better not to let my anger get the best of me, which could have been the case here, doesn't excuse GZ behavior.

I appreciated his reasoning after this

[decocker 7,198]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hearsay

yeah, i know what hearsay means. hearsay, meh.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=meh

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

And you might be correct. I don't really know what to think about it but I tend think both made poor choices. But I don't really know. The point was for certain peeps on here to quit acting like they know what happened when its all hearsay. People that assume TM was an angel and a victim are kidding themselves to the same extent as people who assume TM was a drugged out thug looking for trouble, The truth most likely exists somewhere in between and it leaves a bad taste in my mouth when people are condescending based about something with so many unknowns. If you think something, state it just don't be all up your own a$$ about it if you can't prove it 100%. Not directed at you BTW Marvin. I know what you think and in another thread you admitted the possibility (after being prodded a few times) that GZ might not be completely at fault.

Yeah even then, I'm rarely convinced everything came out or was explained. OJ..........

There is a possible scenario where GZ has stopped chasing TM and he is walking back to his car. He doesn't even know where TM is. He is merely walking back to his vehicle to meet with the police. On his way, TM confronts him and starts the physical altercation.

You see no way where this is possible? Or you think it's possible but TM would still be innocent of any wrongdoing?

I quoted both of you to save time:

GanD, what I said was it's totally possible that TM got the drop on GZ after he stopped chasing him. That is possible. But the question is why? You have a man chasing a teenager with a gun at night for no apparent reason. Could TM be scared and attacked him when his back is turned? Possible. But to say that he was the aggressor is like saying you walk up to someone and start a fight by calling names and making threatning gestures towards someone, and then when you push the wrong button and they get at you, now you're afraid for you life.

BJ, my whole point is that this kid was innocent. At the time when GZ called the cops, he was walking home from the store. Any decision he made after that, was made due to him being stalked by an armed grown man, and that is what he should be held accountable for.

[GandD 5,966]

yeah, i know what hearsay means. hearsay, meh.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=meh

Ah, I miss the old simpsons.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

Marvin admits the possibly here:

http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/425164-jamie-foxxs-t-shirt-causes-an-outrage/page-18

I appreciated his reasoning after this

I don't have a problem with the self defense claim, my problem is TM as the aggressor.

[SMOKE 1,426]

BJ, my whole point is that this kid was innocent. At the time when GZ called the cops, he was walking home from the store. Any decision he made after that, was made due to him being stalked by an armed grown man, and that is what he should be held accountable for.

wait a second. he didn't know zimmerman was armed until he got shot. until then he was beating the hell out of a smaller man.

[GandD 5,966]

I don't have a problem with the self defense claim, my problem is TM as the aggressor.

Yeah, and I can understand why. Just don't act like you know. Cus he might have been. Unless getting out of your car equals aggression. We KNOW GZ did that. What we don't know is what happened when they met. We can assume, just remember, that's all we're doing.

[Harsh_77 718]

hearsay? meh,

when did i say he shouldn't have a fair trial?

You have labeled GZ in your previous post as murderer, you have been arguing in all these post TM had not part to play and he was just innocent 17 yr old kid.

[decocker 7,198]

wait a second. he didn't know zimmerman was armed until he got shot. until then he was beating the hell out of a smaller man.

now there's some hearsay..

[B_J 2,752]

I quoted both of you to save time:

GanD, what I said was it's totally possible that TM got the drop on GZ after he stopped chasing him. That is possible. But the question is why? You have a man chasing a teenager with a gun at night for no apparent reason. Could TM be scared and attacked him when his back is turned? Possible. But to say that he was the aggressor is like saying you walk up to someone and start a fight by calling names and making threatning gestures towards someone, and then when you push the wrong button and they get at you, now you're afraid for you life.

BJ, my whole point is that this kid was innocent. At the time when GZ called the cops, he was walking home from the store. Any decision he made after that, was made due to him being stalked by an armed grown man, and that is what he should be held accountable for.

Okay, that makes sense. It's possible that TM started the physical altercation; but there would have been no altercation at all if GZ had just stayed in his vehicle on the phone.

While I don't see any evidence that GZ is the total racist that some make him out to be and I also don't see any evidence that GZ was out to kill TM; it can still be argued that his actions directly led to the death of TM. As was said earlier; I think a manslaughter conviction would be reasonable.