State pushes to keep Trayvon Martin's past out of George Zimmerman trial

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

I know you have a thing about gun control and I get it, but this is a reach. He put his hands on Mr. Dooley, spun him around, and tried to take his gun from him. What would be the appropriate action to do in this case?

For all we know, Mr. Martin put his hands on Mr. Zimmerman and spun him around. Kicked him a bit, too. And perhaps he tried to take his gun as well. So you'd say that Mr. Zimmerman may have been justified in killing Mr. Martin. That's not what you have represented thus far in this thread. Change of mind?

What would be the appropriate action to do in this case?

I don't know. Not bring a gun to a playground? Honestly, I would feel threatened and fear for my child if some guy came to the playground carrying a gun and brandishing it while cursing at me. I'd probably try and protect my child from harm whatever that took.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

If a man goes into a liquor store to rob it, and a customer gets killed trying to disarm the robber, could the robber claim self defense? Not at all, In most states, that would be felony murder, or first degree murder.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

For all we know, Mr. Martin put his hands on Mr. Zimmerman and spun him around. Kicked him a bit, too. And perhaps he tried to take his gun as well. So you'd say that Mr. Zimmerman may have been justified in killing Mr. Martin. That's not what you have represented thus far in this thread. Change of mind?

I don't know. Not bring a gun to a playground? Honestly, I would feel threatened and fear for my child if some guy came to the playground carrying a gun and brandishing it while cursing at me. I'd probably try and protect my child from harm whatever that took.

Agreed, bringing a gun to the playground was wrong, but as the witnesses said, he was walking away when James grabbed him and tried to take his gun away. At no time did he point it at him or the kids. That was a bad decision on his part.

What we do know is Martin was minding his own business before Zimmerman injected himself into the situation. We also know that Zimmerman got out of his car and kept following Martin after he was told not to. . Just like Dooley was walking away when James decided to try and disarm a man who was leaving the area. Plus, Martin's DNA wasn't on the gun, but Zimmerman's was.

So are you saying that Martin was wrong for feeling threatened by some grown stranger following him, and Dooley was wrong for shooting a man who put his hands on him, spun him around, and tried to take a gun that wasn't even out or being pointed at someone?

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

If a man goes into a liquor store to rob it, and a customer gets killed trying to disarm the robber, could the robber claim self defense? Not at all, In most states, that would be felony murder, or first degree murder.

But Dooley isn't a robber, he was a man with a legally registered handgun and a CCW license. He was walking away from the confrontation when James tried to disarm him.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

What we do know is Martin James was minding his own business before Zimmerman Dooley injected himself into the situation. We also know that Zimmerman Dooley got out of his car home and kept following Martin hassling James after he was told that nothing is posted on the playground that says that the kid cannot skateboard there not to. . Just like Dooley Zimmerman was walking away when James Martin decided to try and disarm a man who was leaving the area. Plus, Martin James's DNA wasn't on the gun, but Zimmerman Dooley's was.

So are you saying that Martin James was wrong for feeling threatened by some grown stranger with a gun accosting following him, and Zimmerman Dooley was wrong for shooting a man who put his hands on him, spun him around, and tried to take a gun that wasn't even out or being pointed at someone?

See how that works? I think that Dooley deserved what he got and that he should sit and rot in prison right now rather than walking the streets of our communities. And I believe that Zimmerman will be convicted and hope that he doesn't get to walk the streets following his conviction either but rather remains locked up. These men are killers. They ought not to walk among us.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

But Dooley isn't a robber, he was a man with a legally registered handgun and a CCW license. He was walking away from the confrontation when James tried to disarm him.

Dooley committed a crime by brandishing a firearm. That is assault with a deadly weapon, at least a misdemeanor.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

But Dooley isn't a robber, he was a man with a legally registered handgun and a CCW license. He was walking away from the confrontation when James tried to disarm him.

He was quite obviously not fit to have that permit. Sound judgement must be part of what it takes to have that license. Mr. Dooley clearly lacks sounds judgement bringing a firearm onto a playground where he intended to start a confrontation with a youth. Mr. Dooley is not a robber, he is a convicted killer. In my book, that's worse.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

See how that works? I think that Dooley deserved what he got and that he should sit and rot in prison right now rather than walking the streets of our communities. And I believe that Zimmerman will be convicted and hope that he doesn't get to walk the streets following his conviction either but rather remains locked up. These men are killers. They ought not to walk among us.

I disagree, there are some major differences:

Dooley came out to tell the kids about skateboarding which was against the rules, they had gotten permission from James. The issue here was Dooley was upset, and James met that aggression with more aggression. Had James tried to diffuse the situation rather than escalate it, it might have turned out differently.

No rules were being broken when GZ called the cops on TM, had he tried to talk to him first and gave him a chance to explain himself, it might have not gotten ugly.

Both situations are cases in which common sense and reason were discarded. Had James and Dooley talked out their differences, no one would have died. Had Zimmerman tried to talk to Martin, the same thing would have occurred. I don't blame the guns in this situation I blame the folks who didn't exercise restraint when those situations arose.

[B_J 2,752]

Are we reading the same story? James was playing hoops with Danielle that Sunday afternoon. Dooley came from his home across the street to complain about a 14-year-old skateboarder who had gotten James' permission to use the other side of the court. Witnesses said an argument between James and Dooley took a lethal turn when Dooley flipped up his T-shirt, revealing a gun in his waistband, as he cursed James. They said Dooley then turned and headed home, but James spun him around and tried to grab the gun. The men fell to the ground.

Dooley, who is 5 feet 7 and weighs 160 pounds, told jurors he had to struggle with a man 28 years younger who was 6-1 and 240 pounds. He said he pulled out the gun only after James grabbed him by the throat. "I had no other choice,'' he said.

They said Mr. Dooley was walking home. That's the witnesses, not Dooley. If Dooley was white and James was black I'd say the same thing.

How can you have sympathy for Dooley?

You believe Dooley turned to head home. The cops told Zimmerman not to follow Martin. He said okay and was heading back to his vehicle. Do you believe him?

Dooley said he pulled the gun only after James grabbed him by the throat. Zimmerman said Martin attacked him and he has the beat up face to prove it. Do you believe him? Does it justify the death of Trayvon?

Dooley flipped up his shirt to reveal his gun. Doesn't that give James the right to attack since he's in fear for his life. You believe Trayvon was justified to attack Zimmerman since he was chasing him; not showing a weapon, just chasing.

And why would the guy need a gun to talk to a skateboarder. Was he profiling the dangerous skateboarder?

In the interest of fairness, I'm assuming you have sympathy for Zimmerman, you've just never expressed it?

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

How can you have sympathy for Dooley?

You believe Dooley turned to head home. The cops told Zimmerman not to follow Martin. He said okay and was heading back to his vehicle. Do you believe him?

Dooley said he pulled the gun only after James grabbed him by the throat. Zimmerman said Martin attacked him and he has the beat up face to prove it. Do you believe him? Does it justify the death of Trayvon?

Dooley flipped up his shirt to reveal his gun. Doesn't that give James the right to attack since he's in fear for his life. You believe Trayvon was justified to attack Zimmerman since he was chasing him; not showing a weapon, just chasing.

And why would the guy need a gun to talk to a skateboarder. Was he profiling the dangerous skateboarder?

In the interest of fairness, I'm assuming you have sympathy for Zimmerman, you've just never expressed it?

I believe him because that was what the witnesses said. In the story it plainly stated Dooley lifted his shirt to show the gun, cursed James, and then walked away. That was from the witnesses. This has been proven through witness accounts.

Zimmerman said said he was walking back to his car when Martin walked up behind him and asked if he had a problem. He said no, and Martin punched him. If that was true why was Martin killed 74 feet from his backdoor and not closer to the car? Also Martin's girlfriend says Zimmerman found Martin, not the other way around.

[B_J 2,752]

I believe him because that was what the witnesses said. In the story it plainly stated Dooley lifted his shirt to show the gun, cursed James, and then walked away. That was from the witnesses. This has been proven through witness accounts.

Zimmerman said said he was walking back to his car when Martin walked up behind him and asked if he had a problem. He said no, and Martin punched him. If that was true why was Martin killed 74 feet from his backdoor and not closer to the car? Also Martin's girlfriend says Zimmerman found Martin, not the other way around.

You've pointed out the Zimmerman chased Martin. Do we know how far? You're going to have to explain what the 74 feet has to do with anything. Zimmerman also tells the cops that he doesn't know where Martin is, that's why he doesn't want to give his own address. But you choose to believe the girlfriend rather than Zimmerman. Odd.

Why do you not have sympathy for Zimmerman.

By the way, I can understand Dooley, being an older guy, maybe doesn't feel safe unless he has a gun. Maybe he's afraid of the younger generation, so that's why he took it with him. I don't necessarily think Dooley is a bad guy. The same as I don't necessarily think Zimmerman is a bad guy. But you're not being consistent. Why?

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

You've pointed out the Zimmerman chased Martin. Do we know how far? You're going to have to explain what the 74 feet has to do with anything. Zimmerman also tells the cops that he doesn't know where Martin is, that's why he doesn't want to give his own address. But you choose to believe the girlfriend rather than Zimmerman. Odd.

Why do you not have sympathy for Zimmerman.

By the way, I can understand Dooley, being an older guy, maybe doesn't feel safe unless he has a gun. Maybe he's afraid of the younger generation, so that's why he took it with him. I don't necessarily think Dooley is a bad guy. The same as I don't necessarily think Zimmerman is a bad guy. But you're not being consistent. Why?

Because where Martin's house was, there wasn't a road. I watched the reports when the story first broke, he was killed in an alley right behind his house. They showcased how close he was to his house, and how far it was from the road that Zimmerman said he parked his car. I wish I could find it so I could post it. If the official report shows that he was that close to his home, how could Martin double back and attack Zimmerman? http://bcclist.com/2012/03/27/trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-map/

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

I disagree, there are some major differences.

Yes, in the Dooley / James crime, the perp was black and the victim was white. In the Zimmerman / Martin crime, it was the other way around. In both cases the perp had no justification to kill the victim. Both perps ought to be sent up the river. Done.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

I believe him because that was what the witnesses said. In the story it plainly stated Dooley lifted his shirt to show the gun, cursed James, and then walked away.

Do you know what he said to James? Did he threaten James while he showed him the gun? Did he say that he'll get his other gun to come back and take care of James? You know none of that. What we do know is that Dooley had no injuries that supported his fantastic account of James choking him. None of the witnesses supported that either. If you believe that Dooley was justified to kill James, then you must also believe that there is a possibility that Zimmerman was justified in killing Martin. Otherwise, your prejudice has gotten the best of you.

[B_J 2,752]

Because where Martin's house was, there wasn't a road. I watched the reports when the story first broke, he was killed in an alley right behind his house. They showcased how close he was to his house, and how far it was from the road that Zimmerman said he parked his car. I wish I could find it so I could post it. If the official report shows that he was that close to his home, how could Martin double back and attack Zimmerman? http://bcclist.com/2012/03/27/trayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-map/

Yeah, TM ran, and GZ chased him. Apparently he cut between houses and ran in the general direction of his home and GZ maybe, or maybe not, lost him. And then one of them found the other. Perhaps TM had hid and that's why GZ lost him, then when he started back he went by TM again. Maybe TM didn't want him to know where he lived, so he didn't run all the way home. There are so many possible explanations, how does this make a difference.