State pushes to keep Trayvon Martin's past out of George Zimmerman trial

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

I believe your #2 was the biggest reason. The defense team strung that case out so long and diluted the entire procees. By the time it was all said and done, everyone was so punch drunk that they didn't know what was going on anymore.

But as I said, the prosecution also screwed up. If you want to put someone away you need to have your shyt together. Evidence tampering, racism, misconduct, these things played into his release as well. They wanted him so badly they cut corners and it helped cost them the case.

[GandD 5,966]

It wouldn't have been a story because it wouldnt' have happened.

A black guy in a mixed neighborhood wouldn't have called the cops on a lone white kid walking home from the store. And if he did, he would have just waited for the cops to come, why? Because we know the law doesn't work the same way when it comes to us. That's why Stand Your Ground isn't favored within our community, there have been a few occasions in which it was clearly self defense, and yet the survivor(black) still wound up in jail.

I think that most of what is perceived as racism in the justice is really more related to income. If you're any color and you're arrested, money helps more than race hurts. In this case, the survivor couldn't afford an attorney worth a ####### and lost the case.

Do you think GZ is getting different treatment from the police because he shot a black kid?

Edited May 16, 2013 by GandD

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

So you think that it went down as TM attacked GZ, beat him up, and then tried to leave, and GZ shot him while he was trying to leave. I could definitely see murder 2 if that were the case, but I don't think there is really any indication that that TM stopped attacking him before GZ killed him.

The forensics that are public information show the burn pattern consistent with a muzzle to entry wound distance of around 18". Assuming Zimmerman fired the gun in a normal manner with arm extended pointed directly at Martin, that would put the distance between them around 4 feet, not Martin pinning Zimmerman down, pounding his head against the pavement or struggling for the gun, and Zimmerman getting off a lucky shot.

[ready4ONE 5,400]

Would this story have been a big deal if GZ was a black guy? (African American if you prefer)

GZ's race is not a factor to me in this instance. He made piss poor choices that led to his beating and the death of an innocent kid.

[SMR 368]

The forensics that are public information show the burn pattern consistent with a muzzle to entry wound distance of around 18". Assuming Zimmerman fired the gun in a normal manner with arm extended pointed directly at Martin, that would put the distance between them around 4 feet, not Martin pinning Zimmerman down, pounding his head against the pavement or struggling for the gun, and Zimmerman getting off a lucky shot.

18" with what margin of error. 18" is only the distance from your elbow to the end of your fingers.

If Zimmerman fired the gun with a fully extended hand, you're right that he probably couldn't have been pinned under Martin. But if I was trying to shoot someone on top of me, I wouldn't necessarily extend my arm. Add the fact that they may have been struggling for the gun and an 18" distance doesn't seem all that unreasonable. That by no means clears Zimmerman, but it's not really a smoking gun either.

Edited May 16, 2013 by SMR

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

Mr. Dooley walked away from the scene - not in handcuffs towards a police cruiser but into his home. There were no protests that I recall as to why this killer was allowed to go home following his killing another man. He was subsequently chanrged and tried and convicted of manslaughter but at present, Mr. Dooley is at home while his appeal is running its course. Again, I haven't seen massive protests over this convicted killer walking free.

As I recall, you posted this story a while ago. This wasn't a racial dispute, it was two men who got into an argument, as per the article Mr. Dooley pulled his gun to deter Mr. James but instead he advanced on him and tried to get the gun away from him. He didn't point it at him, nor did he shoot him. If he got the gun away from Mr. Dooley, what do you think would have happened next?

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

As I recall, you posted this story a while ago. This wasn't a racial dispute, it was two men who got into an argument, as per the article Mr. Dooley pulled his gun to deter Mr. James but instead he advanced on him and tried to get the gun away from him. He didn't point it at him, nor did he shoot him. If he got the gun away from Mr. Dooley, what do you think would have happened next?

I never said that this was a racial dispute. It was a black man killing a white man and walking home after speaking to the police. That same black man after having been convicted of manslaughter is still walking free today. You said that black men that kill don't get to walk free. I'm saying that that actually does happen.

As to what would have happened if the Air Force veteran had managed to get the gun away from Mr. Dooley? The man's daughter would still have her father around, the man's wife would still have her husband around and Mr. Dooley would not be a convicted killer today. That's what would have happened next.

And just to be clear, Trevor Dooley shot and killed the man. Not sure why you want to claim that he didn't.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

I think that most of what is perceived as racism in the justice is really more related to income. If you're any color and you're arrested, money helps more than race hurts. In this case, the survivor couldn't afford an attorney worth a ####### and lost the case.

Do you think GZ is getting different treatment from the police because he shot a black kid?

Not exactly, take the case of John Mcneil. http://www.hlntv.com/article/2013/04/29/stand-your-ground-john-mcneil

You can't get more clear than this, yet they convicted him because during his phone call he said he was going to whip some ###. GZ called the cops before he established a credible threat, left his car and went after this threat, yet all we keep hearing is he was attacked and needed to defend himself.

I think that when the victim is black, there are certain factors that wouldn't come into play in any other case.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

I never said that this was a racial dispute. It was a black man killing a white man and walking home after speaking to the police. That same black man after having been convicted of manslaughter is still walking free today. You said that black men that kill don't get to walk free. I'm saying that that actually does happen.

As to what would have happened if the Air Force veteran had managed to get the gun away from Mr. Dooley? The man's daughter would still have her father around, the man's wife would still have her husband around and Mr. Dooley would not be a convicted killer today. That's what would have happened next.

And just to be clear, Trevor Dooley shot and killed the man. Not sure why you want to claim that he didn't.

I'm not disputing the fact he shot him. I'm saying this case is different becasue it's not based on race. If the law says if you can't prove guilt, they walk. Anyone who's lost a member to this violence has a right to be outraged.

The difference between this case and GZ is that GZ shot TM and said it was self defense, which they let him go on that night. The problem was when the evidence started coming out.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

The difference between this case and GZ is that GZ shot TM and said it was self defense, which they let him go on that night. The problem was when the evidence started coming out.

That's actually not any difference at all. Dooley shot and killed a man, claimed self defense and was let go. Then the investigation turned up evidence sufficient to charge him and he was charged. And he was convicted. But he is still walking around a free man today.

Can you imagine what would happen if GZ was actually convicted at trial and then released anyway pending his appeal?

Edited May 16, 2013 by Mr. Big Dog

[GandD 5,966]

GZ's race is not a factor to me in this instance. He made piss poor choices that led to his beating and the death of an innocent kid.

Then why is this thread 20 pages deep?

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

If the law says if you can't prove guilt, they walk.

But Trevor Dooley was found guilty and he still walks. That's an outrage, isn't it? Where are the protests? Where's Rev. Al?

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

18" with what margin of error. 18" is only the distance from your elbow to the end of your fingers.

18 inches was the distance from the end of the barrel to the entrance wound in the center of Martin's chest. You play with that and see how you can come up with a shot that hits Martin perpendicular to his body plane center mass 18 inches or more away from the end of the gun. I believe the spread was up to 40 inches away from the muzzle.

Edited May 16, 2013 by The Patriot

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

That's actually not any difference at all. Dooley shot and killed a man, claimed self defense and was let go. Then the investigation turned up evidence sufficient to charge him and he was charged. And he was convicted. But he is still walking around a free man today.

Can you imagine what would happen if GZ was actually convicted at trial and then released anyway pending his appeal?

I tried to edit my post but my computer froze. In the Mr. Dooley case, who attacked who? From what I have read, he lifted his waistban to show he had a gun since Mr. James was coming towards him. Mr. James then advanced on him and tried to take his gun away, that is when he was shot. If that was the case it sounds like self defense. But I was not there so I don't know all the variables.

Same thing with this case, but what I do know is that GZ and TM wouldn't have crossed paths if GZ would have used common sense instead of racial profiling.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

But Trevor Dooley was found guilty and he still walks. That's an outrage, isn't it? Where are the protests? Where's Rev. Al?

Monday evening Trevor Dooley left the Orient Road cell he'd been staying at. He was escort to a GPS office where he was briefed on how the tracking device works. Then a deputy drove him to his Spring Hill home.

Trevor Dooley may be resting at home but he's still facing eight years in prison. He's wearing a tracking device and is only allowed to leave his home to go to court.

He killed a man who according to him was choking the life out of him, and he was convicted of manslaughter. They released him on bond and he still might be have to do eight years in prison. I'm sorry what's GZ situation right now?