State pushes to keep Trayvon Martin's past out of George Zimmerman trial

[Penny Lane 8,159]

talk about bs.

the flammatory nature of this radio interview is the same as the sensationalized character assasination of tm by the extreme right.

Exactly.

[Karee 4,191]

I never claimed there was a racial component to the Casey Anthony case. I picked a case in the same area of the country that had a large group of people following it and earned an emotional response. People camped out at her house and harassed her parents for days and days.

All I was saying is that the original comment of "how long does the sentence have to be to avoid a riot" is silly. And not a "valid concern" ... why would they even take that into account in the verdict?

They shouldn't take it into account in the verdict. I guess we'll just disagree that whether or not it's silly to be concerned that there could be racial violence if GZ is found not guilty. I personally think it's possible.

[Darnell 8,479]

isn't the bounty on Zimmerman's head MUCH MORE than 10K, currently ? I know that cbn article is old..

[SMR 368]

Yes, that is very possible. The concept behind that is that of the lesser included offense(s). Murder 2 includes the lesser offense of manslaughter. So Zimmerman could very well be found not guilty of murder 2 but found guilty of the lesser included offense of manslaughter.

So does the jury just come back with that on their own? I assume this is explained to the jury, correct? Just curious how it works.

All lesser charges are included, but murder 2 is a slam dunk. No one is claiming the gun "went off accidently".

We'll see. I figure that the only way you get to murder 2 is prove that GZ was committing a dangerous felony at the time and thus any deaths that occur can be pinned on him as murder. I'm not saying that's a long shot, though. It's just that from what I've seen, it's likely that GZ was in fact on the ground getting a beatdown when he shot TM. To prove murder, you have to prove that he was criminally at fault for escalating the situation to that point. Because once he's in that situation, he's justified to shoot (as long as the situation isn't his fault). So in my opinion, the trial comes down to how at fault was GZ for the situation he found himself in?

[one...two...tree 2,762]

So does anyone know if you can be charged with murder 2 and then convicted of manslaughter. How does that work?

Why was George Zimmerman charged with 2nd degree murder instead of manslaughter?

When special prosecutor Angela Corey announced she'd be charging him with second-degree murder, it came as a surprise because it seemed like all signs were pointing towards manslaughter. Now, she'll have to prove Zimmerman intentionally killed Trayvon Martin, as opposed to the lesser standard, which would be easier to prove to a jury. Knowing the political ramifications Corey faces should she lose the case, she definitely took a risk by charging him with second-degree murder, which leads us to believe there has to be evidence out there that we don't know about yet that convinced her she'd be able to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman had the intent to kill. Whether or not there is some smoking gun here that proves this, it was still a wise strategy on Corey's part, as a jury can always find him not guilty of second-degree murder but guilty of manslaughter. A jury can never find someone guilty of a higher charge, but they can always find him guilty of a lesser charge, so in a sense, she's covering her bases.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mari-fagel/the-george-zimmerman-case_b_1428622.html

ETA: I do not think they'll convict him of 2nd degree murder, but I do believe manslaughter will hold because GZ's claims about what happened that night are not plausible and conflict with the evidence.

Edited May 16, 2013 by Lincolns mullet

[lostinblue 1,989]

So the terrorist is now in jail or if the verdict is not what they desire they will riot...... It reads very plain to me ,,,,If george goes free we go after "these honkeys, these crackers, these pigs, these pink people," You declare this on the airwaves and she is still walking around then we believe her.....You have a section of the black community that wants race riots....pure and simple.

[Karee 4,191]

Why was George Zimmerman charged with 2nd degree murder instead of manslaughter?

When special prosecutor Angela Corey announced she'd be charging him with second-degree murder, it came as a surprise because it seemed like all signs were pointing towards manslaughter. Now, she'll have to prove Zimmerman intentionally killed Trayvon Martin, as opposed to the lesser standard, which would be easier to prove to a jury. Knowing the political ramifications Corey faces should she lose the case, she definitely took a risk by charging him with second-degree murder, which leads us to believe there has to be evidence out there that we don't know about yet that convinced her she'd be able to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman had the intent to kill. Whether or not there is some smoking gun here that proves this, it was still a wise strategy on Corey's part, as a jury can always find him not guilty of second-degree murder but guilty of manslaughter. A jury can never find someone guilty of a higher charge, but they can always find him guilty of a lesser charge, so in a sense, she's covering her bases.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mari-fagel/the-george-zimmerman-case_b_1428622.html

ETA: I do not think they'll convict him of 2nd degree murder, but I do believe manslaughter will hold because GZ's claims about what happened that night are not plausible and conflict with the evidence.

That makes sense for the prosecutor to charge him with second degree murder.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

So the terrorist is now in jail or if the verdict is not what they desire they will riot...... It reads very plain to me ,,,,If george goes free we go after "these honkeys, these crackers, these pigs, these pink people," You declare this on the airwaves and she is still walking around then we believe her.....You have a section of the black community that wants race riots....pure and simple.

And there's racists out there giving their opinions all over the internetz about how that 'n!gger' had it coming. Are you covering one eye when you read such things?

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

the trial comes down to how at fault was GZ for the situation he found himself in?

He should have never gotten out of his car. Even if he got his beat down, and shot M in retaliation, that is Murder 2.

[B_J 2,752]

Why was George Zimmerman charged with 2nd degree murder instead of manslaughter?

When special prosecutor Angela Corey announced she'd be charging him with second-degree murder, it came as a surprise because it seemed like all signs were pointing towards manslaughter. Now, she'll have to prove Zimmerman intentionally killed Trayvon Martin, as opposed to the lesser standard, which would be easier to prove to a jury. Knowing the political ramifications Corey faces should she lose the case, she definitely took a risk by charging him with second-degree murder, which leads us to believe there has to be evidence out there that we don't know about yet that convinced her she'd be able to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman had the intent to kill. Whether or not there is some smoking gun here that proves this, it was still a wise strategy on Corey's part, as a jury can always find him not guilty of second-degree murder but guilty of manslaughter. A jury can never find someone guilty of a higher charge, but they can always find him guilty of a lesser charge, so in a sense, she's covering her bases.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mari-fagel/the-george-zimmerman-case_b_1428622.html

ETA: I do not think they'll convict him of 2nd degree murder, but I do believe manslaughter will hold because GZ's claims about what happened that night are not plausible and conflict with the evidence.

I have a friend who taught concealed carry classes in the past. I was talking to him about the case and, in his opinion, GZ did just about everything that he would teach a person not to do. While he may not have broken any laws, his actions created the environment that caused the death. I think it won't be too difficult to get manslaughter. And I believe I read that manslaughter carries a minimum of 9 years. I think that would be a fair outcome.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

If half the energy that was expended during those riots was actually focused on fixing the problems through the proper channels, there never would have been any reason to riot, not that there was to begin with. Those riots were more the results of the gang mentality and looting than they were the poor relationship between the community and the police. It was if the zoo had opened it's gates and the animals were allowed to run amock. That type of behavior doesn't float no matter what color you are or how bad your "plight" is.

See the bolded part, in order for this to work, the proper channels have to work for us as well. Think about it, Rodney King was beaten almost to death, in front of several witnesses, and it was caught on film. What happened to the cops? Not guilty. Do you really think this would be the case if he was a white man? I've posted dozens of links where black men are killed under the most unusual circumstances, and what happens to the police who pull the trigger? At best, they might get a misconduct charge and have to apologize to a grieving family whose son was shot 100 times because they THOUGHT they saw a gun. No warning, no second chances, just another black man murdered. At worst, nothing happens and it's ruled "excusable". We are not animals, but they treat us as such. Our lives are not valued the same, because no one can post a story where a white person was shot an excessive amount of times for reaching for their wallet, or even worse, being shot 7 times, handcuffed after the fact, because even though you are bleeding out on the street, you look combative.

That's why this trial is going to be messy if GZ is found innocent. I can look at the facts and make a call without bringing race into it, but you have to know that race played a big, if not biggest part in this whole debacle. If TM was white, he would have never been profiled, and if this altercation happened, I bet even money GZ would be in jail right now waiting for his trial.

[mota bhai 2,675]

I have a friend who taught concealed carry classes in the past. I was talking to him about the case and, in his opinion, GZ did just about everything that he would teach a person not to do. While he may not have broken any laws, his actions created the environment that caused the death. I think it won't be too difficult to get manslaughter. And I believe I read that manslaughter carries a minimum of 9 years. I think that would be a fair outcome.

9 years a fair outcome? smh. this is why they riot.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

So the terrorist is now in jail or if the verdict is not what they desire they will riot...... It reads very plain to me ,,,,If george goes free we go after "these honkeys, these crackers, these pigs, these pink people," You declare this on the airwaves and she is still walking around then we believe her.....You have a section of the black community that wants race riots....pure and simple.

You need to get out more. Black folks don't want race riots, they want equal treatment.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

I have a friend who taught concealed carry classes in the past. I was talking to him about the case and, in his opinion, GZ did just about everything that he would teach a person not to do. While he may not have broken any laws, his actions created the environment that caused the death. I think it won't be too difficult to get manslaughter. And I believe I read that manslaughter carries a minimum of 9 years. I think that would be a fair outcome.

9 years minimum? Wow, that's a bit too harsh, IMO. Three years sounds more reasonable to me.

[B_J 2,752]

That's why this trial is going to be messy if GZ is found innocent.

Very telling