State pushes to keep Trayvon Martin's past out of George Zimmerman trial

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

I'm asking how can TM be the aggressor when he was being pursued. Just like I posted earlier, it's like someone antagonizing someone relentlessly, but when the person being bothered takes that first swing, it's their fault. What still astounds me is that TM is wrong for "attacking" GZ, but GZ was completely within his rights for calling the cops on him, following for over 4 minutes, getting out of his car while getting his gun, and chasing this kid on foot.

I can't recall a single post in which anybody said GZ did not do anything wrong that night.

What you can't accept is that TM was not the sweet little innocent skittle eating kid who was just defending himself. He was a little juvenile delinquent punk gang banger wanna be with a bad attitude, who met up with Mr. Self appointed robo cop who thought it was his duty to be pronounce guilt or innocence and it ended badly.

GZ over played his hand badly, but TM would be alive today had he not assaulted him.

Edited May 15, 2013 by The Nature Boy

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

I can't recall a single post in which anybody said GZ did not do anything wrong that night.

What you can't accept is that TM was not the sweet little innocent skittle eating kid who was just defending himself. He was a little juvenile delinquent punk gang banger wanna be with a bad attitude, who met up with Mr. Self appointed robo cop who thought it was his duty to be pronounce guilt or innocence and it ended badly.

GZ over played his hand badly, but TM would be alive today had he not assaulted him.

What gang did TM belong to? And since we are passing judgement, what was TM doing at the time? I believe he was walking home minding his own business.

Your response is exactly why we get profiled in the first place. You have to think that TM was wrong somehow, so it justifies the killing. There was no evidence he was in a gang, just some FB posting and some tattoo pics, I have tattoos too. Does that make me a gang banger? They show pics of guns on his page, as much as folks love talking about guns here and linking pictures of real ones, not cartoon drawings, does that make people on here gang bangers? He gave the middle finger, does that make him dangerous? What's the criteria for that now a days?

GZ's supporters are saying that TM assaulted GZ when he caught up to him. If GZ hadn't created that situation, it would have never happened. GZ had to remove himself from the safety of his vehicle and actually pursue this kid in order for this to take place. We are taught not to talk to strangers and try to find help if accosted. This kid tried to get home(hence being killed 74 feet from his house and not close to the car GZ swears he was walking back to) and yet you can't fathom he was profiled, targeted and killed.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

What gang did TM belong to?

What does that matter? He was black. Thus he belonged to a gang. Don't you get it?

[The Nature Boy 4,224]

What gang did TM belong to? And since we are passing judgement, what was TM doing at the time? I believe he was walking home minding his own business.

Your response is exactly why we get profiled in the first place. You have to think that TM was wrong somehow, so it justifies the killing. There was no evidence he was in a gang, just some FB posting and some tattoo pics, I have tattoos too. Does that make me a gang banger? They show pics of guns on his page, as much as folks love talking about guns here and linking pictures of real ones, not cartoon drawings, does that make people on here gang bangers? He gave the middle finger, does that make him dangerous? What's the criteria for that now a days?

GZ's supporters are saying that TM assaulted GZ when he caught up to him. If GZ hadn't created that situation, it would have never happened. GZ had to remove himself from the safety of his vehicle and actually pursue this kid in order for this to take place. We are taught not to talk to strangers and try to find help if accosted. This kid tried to get home(hence being killed 74 feet from his house and not close to the car GZ swears he was walking back to) and yet you can't fathom he was profiled, targeted and killed.

Dude read----"gang banger wanna be" Did not say he was in a gang. The reason young black males get profiled is becuse they are doing a vastly disproportionate amount of the crime in many many areas . If young white Amish ever start doing 90% of the crime around here I will profile them to.

I keep repeatedly saying both were in the wrong. Get the wax out of your ears.

[We Keep Receipts 9,238]

Dude read----"gang banger wanna be" Did not say he was in a gang. The reason young black males get profiled is becuse they are doing a vastly disproportionate amount of the crime in many many areas . If young white Amish ever start doing 90% of the crime around here I will profile them to.

I keep repeatedly saying both were in the wrong. Get the wax out of your ears.

Define wanna be. He didn't have any rags of color, nor have I seen him doing gang signs. He was a black teenager, simple as that.

And how was TM in the wrong? He was the one walking home, he had a right to be there just as much as GZ did. What was the appropriate response in that situation? Remove yourself from it? He was trying to, hence the following/chasing GZ had to do. Confront him? We know that happened and it resulted in his death. No one wants to believe that GZ wanted to confront this kid and it was going to end badly, even though there is a staggering amount of evidence that says just that.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/table-43

Take a look at where blacks are ahead, and see where whites dominate.

[Boiler 46,156]

Hispanic/Black issues are hardly uncommon.

So why does this one get so much coverage?

[one...two...tree 2,762]

What GZ was trying to convey by claiming he was walking back to his truck is that he decided to listen to law enforcement after initially ignoring their direction, and was at that point, the one being stalked, but the physical evidence tells a different story. This is a crucial piece that will be his demise, as it shows that not only did he continue to pursue TM and ignore law enforcement, he lied about it because he knew his self defense claim doesn't hold water under such circumstances.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

This is new. Link please, mainstream sites only.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/03/what-happened-trayvon-martin-explained

ABC News reported today that the lead homicide investigator of Trayvon Martin's killing recommended that Trayvon's shooter, George Zimmerman, be arrested and charged with manslaughter. That police investigator, Chris Serino, filed an affidavit on the night of the killing "that stated he was unconvinced by Zimmerman's version of events," according to ABC. But Serino was overruled by the state attorney's office, which said there wasn't enough evidence to secure a conviction in court.

The ABC report also recounted a new detail about Zimmerman's account of that night, concerning Zimmerman's gun: "Martin knocked him down with a punch to his nose, jumped on him, repeatedly banged his head on the ground, then tried to grab Zimmerman's gun," the report states. "In a struggle for Zimmerman's gun, the watchman shot the teenager, Zimmerman told police."

This account raises the question: How did Trayvon Martin know Zimmerman was armed with a handgun? Under Florida law, Zimmerman was licensed only to carry it concealed; the state's permit guidelines also instruct licensees not to brandish their weapons as a deterrent. But in claiming that there was a struggle for his gun, Zimmerman's account suggests he had the weapon out, or visible on his person. It's possible that this inconsistency could have contributed to the investigator Serino's suspicions about Zimmerman's story.

Edited May 15, 2013 by Mr. Big Dog

[lostinblue 1,989]

How did Trayvon Martin know Zimmerman was armed with a handgun?

If you are on top of george you would feel it. No brainer there.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Oh that. There is no evidence to support that he brandished the weapon, its just hearsay.

It's not simply hearsay. TM's gf corroborated with that scenario, and GZ himself indicated it. Witnesses heard someone pleading not to be shot. GZ in his mind may have felt justified in shooting TM out of self defense, but like his actions and behavior leading up to the confrontation show - he had no regard for safety or following protocol. He was reckless in fanatical way, believing he finally caught himself a lowlife thug.

[one...two...tree 2,762]

I have read nothing that indicates that the girlfriend corroborated the brandishing of a firearm. What I have read is she may be facing perjury charges for lying.

The bold is also completely hearsay and indicates your prejudice is showing.

You're correct. However, the phone call between TM and his gf, which they have records of, establishes how the confrontation began, who instigated it, and that TM was afraid, trying to lose GZ. Those who think that GZ acted out of self defense point to GZ's injuries and witnesses who corroborate that TM was on top of GZ seconds before being shot. They believe that the events leading up to the confrontation are unimportant or irrelevant. They believe that all that matters is that GZ was being beaten and feared for his life. The problem with that line of reasoning is that it removes any culpability that GZ had which contributed to the deadly confrontation, and that absolutely infuriates a lot of people because they see also an attempt to make TM's personal life an indication of his culpability. TM was reasonably afraid of GZ following him. GZ claims TM was on top of him, punching him, when he saw the gun and reached out to grab it from GZ. A scenario that is logistically implausible and even impossible for GZ to demonstrate. But what GZ does reveal is that TM discovered GZ had a gun, which goes back to the conclusion that GZ brandished his gun.

Edited May 15, 2013 by Lincolns mullet

[lostinblue 1,989]

It has been proven that the girlfriend lies even under oath. TWICE

Lawyer: State's main witness in George Zimmerman murder case lied

FDLE attorney David Margolis (left) hands document to the judge… (Joe Burbank/Orlando Sentinel )

March 5, 2013|By Rene Stutzman and Jeff Weiner, Orlando Sentinel

SANFORD — Trayvon Martin's girlfriend, the state's most important witness in the George Zimmerman murder case, was caught in a lie, it was revealed Tuesday.

It was not the first piece of misinformation tied to her, but it was the most damaging to date and left prosecutors in a very awkward position.

They had to publicly acknowledge that their star witness had lied under oath and had to answer questions about what they intend to do about it.

Reporters asked: Will you charge the 19-year-old Miami woman with perjury?

The state's lead prosecutor, Bernie de la Rionda, gave an ambiguous answer: "You can all read the law and make your own decision."

The woman had told prosecutors she was in the hospital on the day of Trayvon's funeral.

"In fact, she lied," defense attorney Don West said.

The disclosure was one of two major developments Tuesday at what had been expected to be a dull hearing about the exchange of case evidence.

The other: Zimmerman's lawyers will not hold a "stand your ground" hearing in April, one that could clear him of criminal wrongdoing before his trial.

Defense attorney Mark O'Mara made that announcement in court, later saying he had not yet decided whether to scrap it entirely or roll it into Zimmerman's second-degree-murder trial set for June 10.

"Our real focus is getting ready for the trial," O'Mara said.

What Zimmerman most wants is to be tried by a jury of his peers, O'Mara said, and with fewer than 100 days until trial, "There's only time for one hearing, and that's a jury trial. … We have precious little time."

Zimmerman was not at Tuesday's hearing. Neither was his wife, Shellie, who's awaiting trial on a perjury charge, accused of lying at her husband's April 20 bond hearing. That's what prompted the perjury question to de la Rionda.

If defense lawyers decide to forgo George Zimmerman's immunity hearing, they would be cutting in half their number of opportunities to spare him from a life in prison.

Florida's "stand your ground" statute has generated a great deal of public debate since Trayvon's death one year ago in Sanford. It provides immunity to anyone who uses deadly force, provided he has a reasonable fear of imminent death or great bodily injury.

Zimmerman says he shot Trayvon in self-defense.

Because of Circuit Judge Debra S. Nelson's very tight schedule, when O'Mara told her he would not put on a two-week "stand your ground" hearing starting April 22, he essentially told her he would not hold that hearing before Zimmerman's trial.

She did not press him to spell out his plans.

De la Rionda said he was "bewildered" by O'Mara's decision but did not elaborate.

Zimmerman, a 29-year-old former Neighborhood Watch volunteer, called Sanford police Feb. 26, 2012, describing Trayvon as suspicious. Zimmerman shot the unarmed high-school junior a few minutes later, saying he fired in self-defense after the Miami Gardens 17-year-old punched him, broke his nose, then began pounding his head onto a sidewalk.

Sanford police found no witnesses to the initial confrontation, but Trayvon's family attorney, Benjamin Crump, found something close: Trayvon's girlfriend, identified in court records as "witness 8." She told Crump she had been on the phone with Trayvon just before the shooting.

According to an interview Crump recorded after the shooting, the young woman said Trayvon told her a stranger was following him, and he was scared. Trayvon got away from him once, but the man reappeared, she said, and she heard Trayvon ask, "'What are you following me for?'"

The man answered, "'What are you doing here?'" she said, and then she said the man must have pushed Trayvon because the phone went dead.

The woman gave de la Rionda a very similar account during a sworn statement April 2, and when his office wrote up its probable-cause affidavit, charging Zimmerman with second-degree murder, it rehashed her account but did not include her allegation that she heard Zimmerman push Trayvon.

Despite's Tuesday's revelation, there is no indication the woman lied about what she heard on the phone the evening Trayvon was shot. But she appears to have given Crump another piece of bad information: her age.

He told reporters in March, when he played excerpts from the recorded interview, that she was 16 years old. In fact, she was 18 at the time. Crump has said he did not knowingly misrepresent her age.

O'Mara would not say whether the woman should be prosecuted for perjury for lying under oath about being in the hospital.

But months ago, he and co-counsel Don West began trying to investigate her. They earlier persuaded the judge to allow them to subpoena her Twitter and Facebook accounts so they can read her posts.

rstutzman@tribune.com or 407-650-6394. jeweiner@tribune.com or 407-420-5171.

Ads by Google

http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2013-03-05/news/os-zimmerman-witness-8-medical-records-20130305_1_george-zimmerman-trayvon-martin-bernie-de-la-rionda

"recorded interview, that she was 16 years old. In fact, she was 18 at the time. Crump has said he did not knowingly misrepresent her age."

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

It has been proven that the girlfriend lies even under oath.

Zimmerman isn't exactly a truthful guy either, is he? He and his wife lied to the judge in regards to their ability to post bond. They were sitting on a couple hundred thousand of dollars and falsely told the court that they were broke. Z's wife was actually arrested on perjury charges for that. Funny you never mention that.

Edited May 15, 2013 by Mr. Big Dog

[Karee 4,191]

Zimmerman isn't exactly a truthful guy either, is he? He and his wife lied to the judge in regards to their ability to post bond. They were sitting on a couple hundred thousand of dollars and falsely told the court that they were broke. Z's wife was actually arrested on perjury charges for that. Funny you never mention that.

Was Z charged with perjury?

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Was Z charged with perjury?

No, Z had his lawyer lie to the judge on his behalf.