Thanks to Taliban, polio returns to North Waziristan

[james&olya 1,121]

If this disease had been truly eradicated then this child wouldn't have gotten polio. Just like measles wasn't truly eradicated in the US and Europe where there has been a resurgence. So it's stupid to say it was eradicated. FYI children die [or are debilitated] in those regions of many other diseases because, frankly, it's a poor and underdeveloped part of the world. In Central Africa and Bangladesh children die from diarrhea, which to me, is more sad and pathetic.

What the Taliban is doing to Pakistan and Afghanistan is inhumane and despicable on so many levels that targeting public health measures is only a very small part of it, though it is a juicy headline. We also terrorize that part of the world with drones, so those people are getting it from all sides. No one is defending the Taliban and their ways. For me, they are more like cancer than people. Though I do have to agree with sandinista about medical ethics. It's a slippery slope. Doctors, drugs, and health programs getting bad press or scandals can lead to a lot of people simply deciding not to seek medical treatment, which is a bad thing. Look at the misinformation campaigns that South African politicians went on in order to get out of paying for ARVs for their HIV-infected population. So many Southern Africans believe ARVs are poison. Mixing politics and health usually produces bad results.

On a different note, the resurgence of measles and other "eradicated" diseases in the US and Europe is all due to moronic parents refusing to vaccinate their kids because of their moronic superstitions. If you have unfettered access to vaccines and you don't vaccinate your kids then you are a bad parent. Period.

Only one disease has been eradicated world-wide. Smallpox. Other diseases may be eradicated from certain countries or regions but until they are eradicated world-wide they can, and have been, re-introduced into areas that had gotten rid of them. Ignorance and superstition are major impediments to progress, both here as well as in places like Pakistan. It is no coincidence that religious conservatism and fundamentalism often seem associated with the same areas having problems with these easily preventable diseases. I agree that those parents who elect not to vaccinate their children are both stupid and, in that area, bad parents!

[james&olya 1,121]

There's a big difference between being against vaccinations, and killing the people that offer them.

The first is STUPID. The 2nd is STUPID + ANTI-SOCIAL PERSONALITY DISORDER!

[sandinista! 1,816]

I was talking about tribesmen in North Waziristan. I stand by that post that they don't care about their children contracting Polio since they wont allow their children to be vaccinated. Then you brought up some obscure Welsh reference.

I can post about 1000 links about how much the Taliban care about children here if you'd like. So don't give me that garbage. My favorite is the girl they shot on the school bus. "The Taliban offered 10 letters of endorsement." I actually can't believe you posted that. That's like Charles Manson endorsing a day care center.

Lots of people, in lots of places around the world don't care about their children being vaccinated for various reasons. There is nothing obscure in referring to that. Kids have come down with polio in Pakistan, and measles in Wales as a result. Both are stupid.

You have no concept whatsoever about how public health works, and its neutrality in regards to conflicts, wars, governments, terrorism, etc. It sounds like you want more kids to contract polio in Afghanistan rather than health officials deal with the situation pragmatically, and that's demented. They've got two choices-dont vaccinate anyone and let kids die, or work with those ####### and keep kids from getting polio. Yeah, everyone would prefer being able to get those kids vaccinated without working with the Taliban. Duh. But that's in lollipop, rainbow, and unicorn land right now.

Dragging Malala Yousufzai into this has nothing to do with anything here. You don't care enough to even know her name. She's just a body for you to grind an axe on.

[sandinista! 1,816]

There's still a huge difference between people deciding for whatever stupid or ridiculous reason to willfully endanger their children and between people being unable to get their children protective vaccinations because a murderous group makes those vaccinations unavailable to everyone in a region - whether one wants them or not. That's all.

Of course there is. There's also a difference between being able to unequivocally deny that there has never been and never will be any use of vaccine programs for anything but public health and not being able to. We unfortunately can't do that anymore, with disastrous consequences all around.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

There's also a difference between being able to unequivocally deny that there has never been and never will be any use of vaccine programs for anything but public health and not being able to. We unfortunately can't do that anymore, with disastrous consequences all around.

Why can't we? What use other than for public health purposes are you talking about?

[sandinista! 1,816]

Then explain to me why the head of alQaeda after bin Laden was killed, who happens to be a physician as I understand, has not made it a priority to educate his Taliban allies as to the very real need for these children to be immunized? Could it be because, in spite of his knowledge, it just does not matter enough to him and his allies? Why is it so hard for you to acknowledge that the Taliban are acting dishonorably?

The Taliban in Afghanistan are largely cooperating. The reasons for this disparity in pakistan are being studied and the vaccine coordinators and researchers are constantly strategizing and experimenting with methods to counter the resistance they meet, and the reasoning behind it, however misguided that reasoning is.

James, I have condemned the Taliban and their actions numerous times in this thread. From the get go. Please actually read the thread.

[sandinista! 1,816]

Why can't we? What use other than for public health purposes are you talking about?

For years and years, the vaccine program was pure. Then the CIA thing with dr Afridi happened, and destroyed that track record. That's one of the reasons why the WHO and drs without borders et al were so pissed-that credibility they had worked for years to earn was seriously damaged.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

The Taliban in Afghanistan are largely cooperating.

Are they?

Taliban stopping polio vaccinations, says Afghan governor

Immunisation programme halted in Nuristan province, raising fears that opposition has spread from Pakistan

"For the past three years Waygal district has been under the Taliban, they are very strong there. For the last two years the vaccine process went on in the district, but this year they stopped it," he told the Guardian by phone from the provincial capital, an island of government control in the restive area.

"They are saying in terms of religion it is a problem and we have to stop it. In Kamdesh district we also have problems, they have stopped the programme," he added.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

For years and years, the vaccine program was pure. Then the CIA thing with dr Afridi happened, and destroyed that track record. That's one of the reasons why the WHO and drs without borders et al were so pissed-that credibility they had worked for years to earn was seriously damaged.

If the CIA wants to get to you, they'll get to you. Stopping vaccinations isn't stopping the CIA - it only hurts or kills children. Don't blame the CIA for the vaccinations to be stopped and for health workers to be murdered. That's a scapegoat. Nothing more. The Taliban in Afghanistan is quite clear that they have religious issues with the vaccinations. That's why they stop.

[Karee 4,190]

Lots of people, in lots of places around the world don't care about their children being vaccinated for various reasons. There is nothing obscure in referring to that. Kids have come down with polio in Pakistan, and measles in Wales as a result. Both are stupid.

You have no concept whatsoever about how public health works, and its neutrality in regards to conflicts, wars, governments, terrorism, etc. It sounds like you want more kids to contract polio in Afghanistan rather than health officials deal with the situation pragmatically, and that's demented. They've got two choices-dont vaccinate anyone and let kids die, or work with those ####### and keep kids from getting polio. Yeah, everyone would prefer being able to get those kids vaccinated without working with the Taliban. Duh. But that's in lollipop, rainbow, and unicorn land right now.

Dragging Malala Yousufzai into this has nothing to do with anything here. You don't care enough to even know her name. She's just a body for you to grind an axe on.

Your right, I don't know alot about public health. However, I seem to know more than you. I know that if you have a problem with vaccines, you don't go out and kill the health care workers vaccinating children.

As far as your praise for Mullah Omar "approving" vaccination programs, I think I'll try that in the future. Next time I get stitched up and catch a case, I'll just tell the judge, "Your honor, I threw a couple quarters in the Salvation Army donation bin last Christmas on the way out of the beer store" I'm sure he'll find me not guilty of whatever I'm there for and let me walk.

[sandinista! 1,816]

If the CIA wants to get to you, they'll get to you. Stopping vaccinations isn't stopping the CIA - it only hurts or kills children. Don't blame the CIA for the vaccinations to be stopped and for health workers to be murdered. That's a scapegoat. Nothing more. The Taliban in Afghanistan is quite clear that they have religious issues with the vaccinations. That's why they stop.

Pakistan. This is Pakistan. I've already posted links talking about public health workers getting the go ahead from the Taliban in Taliban controlled areas to vaccinate kids in Afghanistan. Which, crappy as it is to have to work with them, nevertheless has gotten the job done.

You're right about the futility of it, and and the scapegoating. That does not make it any less morally reprehensible to give useless vaccines and make people think they are protected from a deadly disease when they are in fact NOT protected though. Nor does it make it any less of a violation of those children's human rights to not be subjected to unauthorized medical testing, or have anything removed from their bodies they or their parents did not consent to. There are lots of wrong things there.

It is not for religious reasons these tribesman are prohibiting vaccine workers from entering-they've said they'll allow them to enter if drone strikes stop. Which of course is the wrong way to protest that. But it's not religion it's politics.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

Pakistan. This is Pakistan. I've already posted links talking about public health workers getting the go ahead from the Taliban in Taliban controlled areas to vaccinate kids in Afghanistan. Which, crappy as it is to have to work with them, nevertheless has gotten the job done.

I just posted a link that The Taliban in Afghanistan is beginning to put a stop to the vaccinations as well. Very recent article. Pakistan, Afghanistan, whatever. The Taliban knows no borders.

[james&olya 1,121]

It is not for religious reasons these tribesman are prohibiting vaccine workers from entering-they've said they'll allow them to enter if drone strikes stop. Which of course is the wrong way to protest that. But it's not religion it's politics.

So they are counting on our government loving their children more than they themselves do! It is stupid politically and tends to make their religion look bad as well. Why? Because their religious leaders (who are also their political leaders under their system!) have a moral obligation to step up and advocate for these children. That they don't reflects very poorly on their practice of this religion.

[Karee 4,190]

So they are counting on our government loving their children more than they themselves do! It is stupid politically and tends to make their religion look bad as well. Why? Because their religious leaders (who are also their political leaders under their system!) have a moral obligation to step up and advocate for these children. That they don't reflects very poorly on their practice of this religion.

And that's really the bottom line. Blaming the CIA or the doctor for the way the DNA tests were done to catch OBL is one thing. Stopping vaccination programs because of it, smacks of cutting of your nose to spite your face. Actually, it's more like cutting off your children's nose to spite your face.

[Mr. Big Dog 10,747]

It is not for religious reasons these tribesman are prohibiting vaccine workers from entering-they've said they'll allow them to enter if drone strikes stop. Which of course is the wrong way to protest that. But it's not religion it's politics.

You should read the article I linked to above.