Fiance/Marriage Visa Question

[Cilian7 1]

Engagement is largely a formality. When you file the I-129F both of you will sign and statement of intent to marry within 90 days of entering the US.... I believe that that (plus having met within 2 years of applying and being available to marry (of marriageable age, not currently married and not related in such a way as to make marriage illegal... oh, and currently, of opposite sex... however depending on the DOMA ruling with the Supremes, this may depend on your state, so that I, living in Washington state where same-sex marriage is legal, might be able to petition for a male fiance, but this is largely supposition at this point). There are some other issues that may affect your case, such as sex crimes and domestic violence convictions, marriage broker stuff, that may apply depending on individual circumstances.

I don't know that the K1 beneficiary HAS to remain in their country. I suppose they COULD stay here as a tourist visa for the duration, but they would need to return to their country for the final stage (i.e. actually applying for the visa, once the petition is approved). Now, good luck trying to come in on a tourist visa or getting the request for a tourist visa extension with a K1 pending, but it COULD happen.

Spouse stays in country until AP is approved or green card is in hand, whichever comes first.

Spouse may work once EAD, or green card, is in hand, whichever comes first.

Makes sense, for the most part.

So the beneficiary will have to sign the I-129F while in the US before they leave? If so, do they have the option to return to sign it if they are not able to stay?

And the beneficiary will have to return to their country regardless in order to visit their consulate to complete their portion of the K1 process? Is this the "visa interview" at the consulate? Is this required to occur in their home country or can it occur in the US?

The timeframe I'm not clear on is how long between the I-129F filing and the K1 approval (assuming the steps on my end are timely)? In other words, how long would she be required to stay in Canada, after leaving the US (if necessary, and following engagement), before she can return to the US for us to be married and continue the AOS process to obtain permanent resident status?

Thanks.

[pachacuti 154]

Makes sense, for the most part.

So the beneficiary will have to sign the I-129F while in the US before they leave? If so, do they have the option to return to sign it if they are not able to stay?

And the beneficiary will have to return to their country regardless in order to visit their consulate to complete their portion of the K1 process? Is this the "visa interview" at the consulate? Is this required to occur in their home country or can it occur in the US?

The timeframe I'm not clear on is how long between the I-129F filing and the K1 approval (assuming the steps on my end are timely)? In other words, how long would she be required to stay in Canada, after leaving the US (if necessary, and following engagement), before she can return to the US for us to be married and continue the AOS process to obtain permanent resident status?

Thanks.

You, the petitioner, sign the I-129F. Beneficiary will need to sign a statement of intent to marry and will need to sign the biographical data forms (I don't remember the number of the form off the top of my head).

Yes, the beneficiary would need to return. I don't believe that they can do the process here. Anything else would be AOS (i.e. someone is here on a student or tourist visa and marries, then they would file for AOS, I believe... stating the obvious with the tourist visa that you will need to prove there was no intent to marry upon entry with the tourist visa). Someone else can correct me if I am wrong with this statement.

Total timeframe is hard to say and it really depends. A few people submit their I-129F paperwork and have that approved within weeks or months. That is not typical. Typical is that you submit the paperwork, it gets accepted within like a week (NOA1). Then there is a waiting period of about 6 to 8 months (their stated goal is 5 months, but 6 to 8 seems average, some folks taking longer, much longer... there was a guy petitioning for his Brazilian fiancee and I think his took 14 or 15 months). After that, your case gets sent to DOS, that takes a week or two. Then DOS forwards to the consulate (another week or 2), but both those times can be longer... There are folks who had to wait 2 or 3 months for their case to get to the consulate. Once at the consulate things are really different. Peru, for example seems to take more than a month but less than 2. Some consulates take up to 6 months. Canada often has long wait times. Some countries have a further evil befall them. This thing called AP (but it's not Advanced Parole, but Administrative Processing). They can languish in AP for months, even more than a year. This seems to happen mostly in places like Egypt, Morocco or Pakistan.

So as you can see, you are looking at a total time of anywhere between 3 months (highly, HIGHLY optimistic) and 3 years (highly, HIGHLY pessimistic). I would say average seems to be 8 to 12 months from application to visa in hand.

[Laurka 65]

The beneficiary doesn't sign the I-129F form.

The beneficiary has to return to their country before their I-94 expires (which is the form given upon entry to the US). If the beneficiary visits on VWP they can stay up to 90 days.

The I-129F petition packet can be completed and sent off while the beneficiary is with the petitioner in the US. It makes the waiting (at least just the beginning) more bearable).

Interview takes place in a US Embassy. There are no US Embassies in the US, so no, it can't take place in the US.

The time frames for I-129F petitions for K1 visa are about 6-8 months now but it varies.

Hope this helps :] Good luck to you!

Oh and this could be helpful. Take a look at the flowchart http://www.visajourney.com/content/k1flow

Edited May 7, 2013 by Laurka

[ricnally 258]

Not quite right, Laurka. Canadians can stay as a tourist up to 6 months in any 12-month period, and don't receive the I-94.

[Cilian7 1]

Thank you all for your input. I've found it very help and, coupled with the guides I've digested, it has helped to clarify most of the process for me.

A few additional questions mostly relating to the K1:

1.) I have a question about "intent". What exactly constitutes "immigration fraud" in this case? For the K1, does it mean that the beneficiary is not able to know, prior to entry into the US, that engagement will occur? For the K3, does it mean that the beneficiary is not able to know, prior to entry into the US, that marriage will occur? If so, to either or both, is it reasonable for them to insist that there be no prior knowledge of intent to be engaged/married? They insist that it be a surprise? If I'm not understanding this correctly I ask that someone please help clarify.

2.) Is there any case, with any type of marriage visa, where the non-US citizen can come to the US (from Canada), get married, stay through the process of waiting for the approval, go back to their country for a very short period (however long to do the interview at the consulate and receive the visa), and then return?

3.) How long can the non-US citizen fiance/spouse (from Canada) stay in the US after engagement/marriage during the visa application process? Does any particular thing affect their ability to stay (ie: filing of I-129F/I-130, approval of either, etc.)?

And a few questions about the K3:

4.) The comparison page states for the K3: "This option has the benefit that the I-129F for a K-3 Visa will often be processed faster than the 'underlying' I-130. This means that the time waiting for the Non-US Citizen Spouse to enter the US may be less." Does this mean that the I-129F processing time is faster under the K3 than under the K1? Or does it mean that the I-129F is just faster than the I-130?

5.) Also stated under the K3 on that page: "Alternately, if prior to filing for AOS the K-3 Visa Holder has their underlying I-130 petition approved by the USCIS they may instead (of filing for AOS) choose to return to their consulate abroad to interview and obtain an IR-1 / CR-1 Visa. In this case they would abandon their status as a K-3 Visa Holder and re-enter the US as a IR-1 / CR-1 Visa Holder." If this route is taken, how long will the non-US citizen (spouse) be required to stay in their home country (Canada, in this case) to wait for the consulate interview and approval for the CR-1?

6.) What's the time frame for obtaining an EAD once the K3 is approved and the spouse has applied for it and the social security card?

Thanks again for the helpful insight.

[LucidSofia 59]

Thank you all for your input. I've found it very help and, coupled with the guides I've digested, it has helped to clarify most of the process for me.

A few additional questions mostly relating to the K1:

1.) I have a question about "intent". What exactly constitutes "immigration fraud" in this case? For the K1, does it mean that the beneficiary is not able to know, prior to entry into the US, that engagement will occur? For the K3, does it mean that the beneficiary is not able to know, prior to entry into the US, that marriage will occur? If so, to either or both, is it reasonable for them to insist that there be no prior knowledge of intent to be engaged/married? They insist that it be a surprise? If I'm not understanding this correctly I ask that someone please help clarify.

2.) Is there any case, with any type of marriage visa, where the non-US citizen can come to the US (from Canada), get married, stay through the process of waiting for the approval, go back to their country for a very short period (however long to do the interview at the consulate and receive the visa), and then return?

3.) How long can the non-US citizen fiance/spouse (from Canada) stay in the US after engagement/marriage during the visa application process? Does any particular thing affect their ability to stay (ie: filing of I-129F/I-130, approval of either, etc.)?

And a few questions about the K3:

4.) The comparison page states for the K3: "This option has the benefit that the I-129F for a K-3 Visa will often be processed faster than the 'underlying' I-130. This means that the time waiting for the Non-US Citizen Spouse to enter the US may be less." Does this mean that the I-129F processing time is faster under the K3 than under the K1? Or does it mean that the I-129F is just faster than the I-130?

5.) Also stated under the K3 on that page: "Alternately, if prior to filing for AOS the K-3 Visa Holder has their underlying I-130 petition approved by the USCIS they may instead (of filing for AOS) choose to return to their consulate abroad to interview and obtain an IR-1 / CR-1 Visa. In this case they would abandon their status as a K-3 Visa Holder and re-enter the US as a IR-1 / CR-1 Visa Holder." If this route is taken, how long will the non-US citizen (spouse) be required to stay in their home country (Canada, in this case) to wait for the consulate interview and approval for the CR-1?

6.) What's the time frame for obtaining an EAD once the K3 is approved and the spouse has applied for it and the social security card?

Thanks again for the helpful insight.

Hi, I'll try to answer some of your questions..

1) Immigration fraud would be to enter the U.S on a tourist visa with the intention of staying in U.S for longer than your tourist visa permits. So for instance, if your girlfriend travels to the U.S with the knowledge that you will propose, that is fine as long as she plans on returning to her country before the allotted time on her tourist visa runs out. If she goes with the knowledge that you will propose, and plans to STAY in the U.S after that and adjust status inside the U.S, that is immigration fraud. However, if she gets questioned at customs and the officer finds out she is getting engaged on this visit, he might deny her entry (because he might suspect that she will end up staying in the U.S instead of returning to her country).

2) Yes, you could get married in the U.S and file for a CR1 visa, and have your wife stay with you as long as her tourist visa permits. Then she would go to her home country and wait out the rest of the process.

As to the K3 visa, I don't know much about it, but I do know that people on this forum will tell you that it is OBSOLETE.

[Laurka 65]

Not quite right, Laurka. Canadians can stay as a tourist up to 6 months in any 12-month period, and don't receive the I-94.

Sorry about that, wasn't sure for how long they can stay as tourists, but that's even better for them Although I read stories here that Canadian citizens were denied entry to the US when the petition for fiance visa was already pending.

[Laurka 65]

Thank you all for your input. I've found it very help and, coupled with the guides I've digested, it has helped to clarify most of the process for me.

A few additional questions mostly relating to the K1:

1.) I have a question about "intent". What exactly constitutes "immigration fraud" in this case? For the K1, does it mean that the beneficiary is not able to know, prior to entry into the US, that engagement will occur? For the K3, does it mean that the beneficiary is not able to know, prior to entry into the US, that marriage will occur? If so, to either or both, is it reasonable for them to insist that there be no prior knowledge of intent to be engaged/married? They insist that it be a surprise? If I'm not understanding this correctly I ask that someone please help clarify.

2.) Is there any case, with any type of marriage visa, where the non-US citizen can come to the US (from Canada), get married, stay through the process of waiting for the approval, go back to their country for a very short period (however long to do the interview at the consulate and receive the visa), and then return?

3.) How long can the non-US citizen fiance/spouse (from Canada) stay in the US after engagement/marriage during the visa application process? Does any particular thing affect their ability to stay (ie: filing of I-129F/I-130, approval of either, etc.)?

And a few questions about the K3:

4.) The comparison page states for the K3: "This option has the benefit that the I-129F for a K-3 Visa will often be processed faster than the 'underlying' I-130. This means that the time waiting for the Non-US Citizen Spouse to enter the US may be less." Does this mean that the I-129F processing time is faster under the K3 than under the K1? Or does it mean that the I-129F is just faster than the I-130?

5.) Also stated under the K3 on that page: "Alternately, if prior to filing for AOS the K-3 Visa Holder has their underlying I-130 petition approved by the USCIS they may instead (of filing for AOS) choose to return to their consulate abroad to interview and obtain an IR-1 / CR-1 Visa. In this case they would abandon their status as a K-3 Visa Holder and re-enter the US as a IR-1 / CR-1 Visa Holder." If this route is taken, how long will the non-US citizen (spouse) be required to stay in their home country (Canada, in this case) to wait for the consulate interview and approval for the CR-1?

6.) What's the time frame for obtaining an EAD once the K3 is approved and the spouse has applied for it and the social security card?

Thanks again for the helpful insight.

And engagement doesn't result in an immediate marriage. You can propose to your girlfriend while she is staying with you in the US (as a tourist) and enjoy it, but if you go and get married right after that and try to adjust her status it would be a fraud. You can get engaged, file the petition for fiance visa and wait as much of the process together (without being separated) as it's allowed for her to stay. Then she would go back to her country to finilize the process (medical, interview) and come back to get married in the US, stay with you and apply for AOS etc.

Here is Embassy info (don't know which one would be for your girlfriend)

http://www.visajourney.com/consulates/index.php?ctry=Canada&cty=Vancouver

http://www.visajourney.com/consulates/index.php?ctry=Canada&cty=Montreal

[Rachel & Tom 9]

^{Our K-1 Fiancé visa took from Feb 7th 2012 till January 9th 2013 to be approved and my now husband was in the US on January 31st. Now they say you have 6 months to enter the US with this visa, but let me tell you my husband Visa expired on Feb 28th, 2013.}

^{Just be prepared to hurry up then wait!!!!!!! But I can tell you we got approved on August 3rd or 4th of 2012 and his interview with the embassy was on September 6th 2012. Then there was some complications and the embassy sent him the wrong paperwork in someone else name, but if it wasn’t for that he would have been here in October(ish) ….}

^{I agree with the above statement that they said if you are filing for a k-1 fiancé visa to start now. I believe that cost us $340 to file, then the AOS once my husband was here cost us $1070.00}

^{It’s a long and irritating process, but it is totally worth it and I would do it all over again if it met my husband was here with me in the end again!!!!!!!}

^{Good Luck =)}

[Cilian7 1]

Hi, I'll try to answer some of your questions..

1) Immigration fraud would be to enter the U.S on a tourist visa with the intention of staying in U.S for longer than your tourist visa permits. So for instance, if your girlfriend travels to the U.S with the knowledge that you will propose, that is fine as long as she plans on returning to her country before the allotted time on her tourist visa runs out. If she goes with the knowledge that you will propose, and plans to STAY in the U.S after that and adjust status inside the U.S, that is immigration fraud. However, if she gets questioned at customs and the officer finds out she is getting engaged on this visit, he might deny her entry (because he might suspect that she will end up staying in the U.S instead of returning to her country).

2) Yes, you could get married in the U.S and file for a CR1 visa, and have your wife stay with you as long as her tourist visa permits. Then she would go to her home country and wait out the rest of the process.

As to the K3 visa, I don't know much about it, but I do know that people on this forum will tell you that it is OBSOLETE.

Thanks for clarifying that. A couple more questions based on your response...

1.) If, in any of the cases, she comes down on a tourist visa and we are engaged and/or married, and she leaves a short time after (say within a week), would she not be allowed to return to the US (again, from Canada - feel the need to repeat in case the laws are different relative to the immigration relationship of the US to a given country) until she receives the K1/K3/CR1 visa? If so, can anything be done (any type of filing) to enable her to return to visit (for a short period, or however long - possibly periodically) before the visa approval? If not, would I be in any way barred from visiting her periodically before the visa approval?

2.) Why is the K3 obsolete if it take the same amount of time as the K1, being that they both start with the I-129F (with the added benefit of no AP upon approval and arrival to the US); and less time than the CR1, assuming the I-129F is filed after the acceptance of the I-130 (so we could be together sooner)? This is what I gather from the guides.

Thanks again.

[Cilian7 1]

And engagement doesn't result in an immediate marriage. You can propose to your girlfriend while she is staying with you in the US (as a tourist) and enjoy it, but if you go and get married right after that and try to adjust her status it would be a fraud. You can get engaged, file the petition for fiance visa and wait as much of the process together (without being separated) as it's allowed for her to stay. Then she would go back to her country to finilize the process (medical, interview) and come back to get married in the US, stay with you and apply for AOS etc.

Here is Embassy info (don't know which one would be for your girlfriend)

http://www.visajourney.com/consulates/index.php?ctry=Canada&cty=Vancouver

http://www.visajourney.com/consulates/index.php?ctry=Canada&cty=Montreal

Thanks for the input, Laurka.

So the fraud would occur at the point of an attempt to adjust her status while she is here and after we are married (on that same trip)? But it would not be fraud if we were engaged and married (on the same trip, even if she knew it would happen), as long as she returned to Canada before her tourist visa expires (meaning she could stay for a long part of the process)?

Also, do you know if anything can be filed in the case of her returning to Canada after engagement/marriage that would enable her to return for a time (short or long, whichever is possible) for a visit with it in mind that she would have to return to Canada for the finalization of the process (medical and interview)?

[Cilian7 1]

^{Our K-1 Fiancé visa took from Feb 7th 2012 till January 9th 2013 to be approved and my now husband was in the US on January 31st. Now they say you have 6 months to enter the US with this visa, but let me tell you my husband Visa expired on Feb 28th, 2013.}

^{Just be prepared to hurry up then wait!!!!!!! But I can tell you we got approved on August 3rd or 4th of 2012 and his interview with the embassy was on September 6th 2012. Then there was some complications and the embassy sent him the wrong paperwork in someone else name, but if it wasn’t for that he would have been here in October(ish) ….}

^{I agree with the above statement that they said if you are filing for a k-1 fiancé visa to start now. I believe that cost us $340 to file, then the AOS once my husband was here cost us $1070.00}

^{It’s a long and irritating process, but it is totally worth it and I would do it all over again if it met my husband was here with me in the end again!!!!!!!}

^{Good Luck =)}

Thank you, Rachel. It's unfortunate about the complications but I'm happy it worked out well for you. Thanks also for the account on the timing, it's nice to know it can work out in such a short time.

[LucidSofia 59]

Thanks for clarifying that. A couple more questions based on your response...

1.) If, in any of the cases, she comes down on a tourist visa and we are engaged and/or married, and she leaves a short time after (say within a week), would she not be allowed to return to the US (again, from Canada - feel the need to repeat in case the laws are different relative to the immigration relationship of the US to a given country) until she receives the K1/K3/CR1 visa? If so, can anything be done (any type of filing) to enable her to return to visit (for a short period, or however long - possibly periodically) before the visa approval? If not, would I be in any way barred from visiting her periodically before the visa approval?

2.) Why is the K3 obsolete if it take the same amount of time as the K1, being that they both start with the I-129F (with the added benefit of no AP upon approval and arrival to the US); and less time than the CR1, assuming the I-129F is filed after the acceptance of the I-130 (so we could be together sooner)? This is what I gather from the guides.

Thanks again.

1) Theoretically she could return to the U.S, but in practice a lot of people get denied because as soon as the CBP finds out that she is married/engaged to a U.S citizen they tend to become suspicious of intent to stay in the U.S. And once she's been denied entry to the U.S once, it becomes much more difficult to enter in later attempts. Some people still manage to get through though.. You should read the thread called "Yes you can visit!", it is a pinned thread since so many people ask this question: http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/67796-yes-you-can-visit/

Oh and no I don't see why you would be barred from visiting her in Canada (though that really depends on Canada's immigration laws which I don't know anything about, but I don't think you would have any problems).

2) From what i've gathered, the K3 used to be faster than the K1, but now it actually takes longer. So since the k1 gets approved before the K3 it ends up not being used. (I'm not 100% sure about this so someone might come along to correct me on that)

I hope this helps!

Edited May 7, 2013 by LucidSofia

[Cilian7 1]

1) Theoretically she could return to the U.S, but in practice a lot of people get denied because as soon as the CBP finds out that she is married/engaged to a U.S citizen they tend to become suspicious of intent to stay in the U.S. And once she's been denied entry to the U.S once, it becomes much more difficult to enter in later attempts. Some people still manage to get through though.. You should read the thread called "Yes you can visit!", it is a pinned thread since so many people ask this question: http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/67796-yes-you-can-visit/

Oh and no I don't see why you would be barred from visiting her in Canada (though that really depends on Canada's immigration laws which I don't know anything about, but I don't think you would have any problems).

2) From what i've gathered, the K3 used to be faster than the K1, but now it actually takes longer. So since the k1 gets approved before the K3 it ends up not being used. (I'm not 100% sure about this so someone might come along to correct me on that)

I hope this helps!

Thanks, that's very helpful!

On the first question, if she were to be denied entrance on a visit attempt I can see how it would make it more difficult for future visit attempts to be accepted. However, would that weigh against the visa application process in any way? And would the complications for re-entrace apply after the visa is approved and she tries re-entering with it? I will look into that thread you suggested.

[Cilian7 1]

1) Theoretically she could return to the U.S, but in practice a lot of people get denied because as soon as the CBP finds out that she is married/engaged to a U.S citizen they tend to become suspicious of intent to stay in the U.S. And once she's been denied entry to the U.S once, it becomes much more difficult to enter in later attempts. Some people still manage to get through though.. You should read the thread called "Yes you can visit!", it is a pinned thread since so many people ask this question: http://www.visajourney.com/forums/topic/67796-yes-you-can-visit/

Oh and no I don't see why you would be barred from visiting her in Canada (though that really depends on Canada's immigration laws which I don't know anything about, but I don't think you would have any problems).

2) From what i've gathered, the K3 used to be faster than the K1, but now it actually takes longer. So since the k1 gets approved before the K3 it ends up not being used. (I'm not 100% sure about this so someone might come along to correct me on that)

I hope this helps!

A few of the accounts in the "Yes you can visit!" thread mention that customs officials (at least on the US side) said to them that they could not marry on that visit. Is that appropriate or allowed for them to say, and if so is it binding? What if they did get married on that trip?