Leaving the country AFTER AP approval but BEFORE AP arrival

[am1996 0]

As you can tell by our signature, our AP was approved on 11/14. We haven't received the AP papers yet and are currently scheduled to fly out to Canada tomorrow, 11/21. An Infopass appointment this morning did not help (nor surprising, but it was worth a shot, especially since we live 15 minutes away from the building).

If the AP papers do not arrive in the mail today, we will postpone the flight until Thursday, 11/23 (the AP should arrive by then) and will just return two days later (we are intentionally using frequent flyer miles for this trip, so there would not be any change fees). If the papers still do not arrive until next week, I can just come back by myself and overnight the AP papers to Canada to enable my wife to come back into the country.

Now, to prepare for the worst, what happens if the AP papers do not arrive at all for whatever reason (let's say that they get lost in the mail)? Would my wife have the option of going to the US Embassy in Canada to get duplicates? It seems like going through the embassy ought to be a viable option since the embassy probably has a way to assit AP holders whose paperwork gets lost/stolen/destroyed, etc... If the embassy can make duplicate AP's for those people, they ought to be able to assist us as well, correct?

Please let me know if this thinking is correct or if we are on crack Please let us also know if you can think of any other viable options that would still allow my wife to take the trip without too many risks.

Edited November 20, 2006 by am1996

[Kez/JWolf 6]

It is not a good idea to leave the countery until you have the AP in hand... I am sure there are ways to get a replacement for people who have has it lost/stolen while on vacation.... but I dont know what they would say if you you told them your wife left before she actually recieved it in the mail....

I do know that leaving the country before you have the AP can be classed as abandoning your AOS.... not worth the risk for a non-urgent trip... IMO

[am1996 0]

It is not a good idea to leave the countery until you have the AP in hand... I am sure there are ways to get a replacement for people who have has it lost/stolen while on vacation.... but I dont know what they would say if you you told them your wife left before she actually recieved it in the mail....

I do know that leaving the country before you have the AP can be classed as abandoning your AOS.... not worth the risk for a non-urgent trip... IMO

We've already been approved for the AP, so that leaving the country at this point cannot under any circumstances be deemed AOS abandonment, correct?

Now, as for the embassy, if they are able to assist people whose physical AP papers get lost/stolen/destroyed, why wouldn't they be able to do the same for people whose AP papers got lost in the mail? I have no idea about the answer to this question (hence, my post here) but this seems logical. Any thoughts?

Edited November 20, 2006 by am1996

[Allie&Leo 0]

I agree with Niagaenola. I would not want to take the risk of traveling without the actually AP in hand.

How important is the trip?? Is it worth the risk of hoping it will arrive in mail? I've noticed mail system has been slow in delivering items past 2 weeks (i'm assuming due to increase due to holidays). I hope you get them in the mail today so you won't have to worry. If you wanted to take the chance and then deal with embassy I would call ahead of time before you leave to see what procedures are and to make sure you can get an appointment. Dealing with embassy could be a big headache though.

[am1996 0]

I agree with Niagaenola. I would not want to take the risk of traveling without the actually AP in hand.

How important is the trip?? Is it worth the risk of hoping it will arrive in mail? I've noticed mail system has been slow in delivering items past 2 weeks (i'm assuming due to increase due to holidays). I hope you get them in the mail today so you won't have to worry. If you wanted to take the chance and then deal with embassy I would call ahead of time before you leave to see what procedures are and to make sure you can get an appointment. Dealing with embassy could be a big headache though.

Thanks for the well wishes.

As for the risks, we are trying to determine what the risks are, if any. What would be the reason that the embassy would refuse to help somebody in a situation where the AP papers were lost in the mail? Since the AP has already been approved, she should be in the same exact situation as somebody whose AP, green card or passport has been lost/stolen/destroyed, correct? We've never dealt with an embassy though and are not sure why it would or might be a headache.

[Allie&Leo 0]

Yes embassy should help with stolen passport, greencard. but your fiance does not have a greencard yet and the passport she has does not allow her to travel outside the USA. Little quick to say the AP is lost in the mail. Looks like they probably mailed it last week sometime so hopefully you will have it this week. Dealing with embassys require A LOT of waiting. Could be awile before computer systems are updated and not even sure if computer systems would show that AP was approved. Embassy might not have access to that. I just don't know. Also check holiday schedules at embassy. My embassy in Mexico gets around 1000 - 2000 people a day. Embassy is probably not use to dealing with this sort of issue so could take time.

Good Luck to you. Again, hopefully everything will work out and will come in today's mail. It's a decision you personally will have to make.

Happy Thanksgiving and Best Wishes!

[am1996 0]

Yes embassy should help with stolen passport, greencard. but your fiance does not have a greencard yet and the passport she has does not allow her to travel outside the USA. Little quick to say the AP is lost in the mail. Looks like they probably mailed it last week sometime so hopefully you will have it this week. Dealing with embassys require A LOT of waiting. Could be awile before computer systems are updated and not even sure if computer systems would show that AP was approved. Embassy might not have access to that. I just don't know. Also check holiday schedules at embassy. My embassy in Mexico gets around 1000 - 2000 people a day. Embassy is probably not use to dealing with this sort of issue so could take time.

Good Luck to you. Again, hopefully everything will work out and will come in today's mail. It's a decision you personally will have to make.

Happy Thanksgiving and Best Wishes!

I don't think that her AP papers are or will be lost in the mail. Chances are that we will receive them today or at least by Thursday. As I mention in my original post, we are just trying to prepare for the worst case scenario and have a plan to deal with the contingencies. As such, we need to know what the risks are IF she were to leave for Canada and the AP papers got lost in the mail.

The USCIS computers clearly show that the AP has been approved -- the online system shows it, we've received emails confirming it and the Infopass officer this morning could see it as well. Perhaps I am just being a bit dense this morning (it happens, you know ) but I am still not quite following why getting a duplicate AP through the embassy could or might present a headache or a risk. If you don't mind, please explain.

Happy Thanksgiving to you as well!

Edited November 20, 2006 by am1996

[Kez/JWolf 6]

The risk is that you are not ment to leave the USA without the AP in hand.... it would be like trying to get back into the USA after being approved at interview but without the Greencard having arrived yet.....

I am sure it can be done but is it a good thing to do??? only you can answer that one.... for me I would not risk the hassle that it could entail or the worry/stress added to the normal stress of traveling....

But if you want written advice about if you should go without the actual AP in hand the ask at infopass or phone the embassy or call CPB.... and maybe you might get the right answer from someone but there again you may just end up with 3 totaly diffrent answers...

[mozplay 29]

Don't forget to factor in that this is Thanksgiving week and there will probably be postal holidays etc.

[am1996 0]

Don't forget to factor in that this is Thanksgiving week and there will probably be postal holidays etc.

Yep, we scheduled our travel for this week because it is Thanksgiving. November 23 is the only federal holiday this week or, for that matter, this month -- USPS will have regular hours at all other times.

Regardless, we are not particularly concerned with a potential mail delivery delay -- even if the papers arrive a week later, they can be overnighted to Canada. Our question is, what happens IF my wife is in Canada and the AP papers never arrive because they get lost or are otherwise misdelivered. Would the US embassy be able to assist her with a duplicate AP?

She is from Ottawa, the capital of Canada, so there is a huge US embassy that's 20 minutes away from her house. We've never been inside but have never seen any crowds or heard about that embassy being overcrowded, so we are not particularly concerned about getting an appointment there. The question is, is there any reason that the embassy would refuse to help or not be able to assist her?

The risk is that you are not ment to leave the USA without the AP in hand.... it would be like trying to get back into the USA after being approved at interview but without the Greencard having arrived yet.....

Perfect analogy. I don't think that there is any question that you are not meant to do this. Our question, however, is what happens if you do find yourself in a situation like that. Any thoughts?

P.S.

I've already called our local Atlanta CBP office and spoke with somebody regarding trying to re-enter the country without the AP paperwork but AFTER approval. The person I spoke with thought it was a good question, promised to discuss it with her unit commander/supervisor and said she'll get back with me in an hour or two. Trying to re-enter the county without any AP paperwork other than an AP approval email would, of course, be our absolute last resort -- hopefully it'll never get to that. We are just trying to cover every possible contingency.

[Allie&Leo 0]

Call embassy and ask them and advise of your situation.

I think majority of VJ's would not risk the trip after all the work that has been done. I agree with above analogy with greencard - While it is approved - you have to wait till you have in hand.

If I were you - I would wait till today's mail arrives and check it. Since you said you are on Frequent flyer miles - call airline to reschedule trip for later this week to give you a couple more days for mail to arrive.

I'm not sure what purpose of your trip is - but if just to visit family for holidays - would it be worth the hassle and potential heartache if for some reason immigration gives you a hard time because you traveled without AP in hand. I don't think there is an answer here for you other than call embassy to see if they can handle AP's or call USCIS to see when AP was mailed.

[am1996 0]

A CBP unit commander just called me back. He says that CBP can't access the Advance Parole records and, therefore, would not be able to confirm her AP approval electronically. He says that they'd need to see the AP paper to let her back into the country. There is no way to confirm this answer but he sounded knowledgeable. So, that option is out.

As for the embassy, I would prefer not to call them. Although there is absolutely nothing illegal about leaving the country after AP approval and then having the AP paperwork sent to you, I have no doubt that the official government position is that it should not be done. Otherwise, in the event the AP paperwork gets lost in the mail, telling people to just go through the embassy to have the AP paperwork remade would create too many headaches for the embassy. It doesn't mean that the embassy can't do it -- it just means that they would never encourage people to take that route ahead of time.

So, the question remains whether anybody reading this thread has ever dealt with or heard of a situation where an alien who had previously been approved for AP had to go through the embassy to re-create lost/stolen/misdirected paperwork.

[zyggy 9]

A CBP unit commander just called me back. He says that CBP can't access the Advance Parole records and, therefore, would not be able to confirm her AP approval electronically. He says that they'd need to see the AP paper to let her back into the country. There is no way to confirm this answer but he sounded knowledgeable. So, that option is out.

As for the embassy, I would prefer not to call them. Although there is absolutely nothing illegal about leaving the country after AP approval and then having the AP paperwork sent to you, I have no doubt that the official government position is that it should not be done. Otherwise, in the event the AP paperwork gets lost in the mail, telling people to just go through the embassy to have the AP paperwork remade would create too many headaches for the embassy. It doesn't mean that the embassy can't do it -- it just means that they would never encourage people to take that route ahead of time.

So, the question remains whether anybody reading this thread has ever dealt with or heard of a situation where an alien who had previously been approved for AP had to go through the embassy to re-create lost/stolen/misdirected paperwork.

Typically most countires have a USCIS office assigned to them. In most countries, this is a Overseas Office of USCIS, but in the case of Canada, they are served by VSC. In this case, you would probably talk to a CO who has been assigned as the USCIS liason and they will work with you to be able to get a replacement AP document if it had been lost or destroyed. It would probably take some time and would cause you to rearrange some travel plans, but in the grand scheme of things, you should be able to get a replacement document if it came to that.

In terms of CBP, I think they would probably turn you around if you didn't have the document in hand and instruct you to go to the local consulate to get a replacement document or allow you to enter the US if you had prima fascie evidence of AP approval and direct you to go to the CBP office when you got the document for a deferred inspection. But that depends on the CBP officer and their supervisors at the time.

[am1996 0]

Typically most countires have a USCIS office assigned to them. In most countries, this is a Overseas Office of USCIS, but in the case of Canada, they are served by VSC. In this case, you would probably talk to a CO who has been assigned as the USCIS liason and they will work with you to be able to get a replacement AP document if it had been lost or destroyed. It would probably take some time and would cause you to rearrange some travel plans, but in the grand scheme of things, you should be able to get a replacement document if it came to that.

This makes sense. So the US Embassy in Canada would contact VSC to obtain a replacement AP for her? As long as we are talking about a reasonable delay in getting the documents (a week or so), delaying my wife's return to the US until the embassy receives a replacement AP document for my wife would not be an issue for us.

In terms of CBP, I think they would probably turn you around if you didn't have the document in hand and instruct you to go to the local consulate to get a replacement document or allow you to enter the US if you had prima fascie evidence of AP approval and direct you to go to the CBP office when you got the document for a deferred inspection. But that depends on the CBP officer and their supervisors at the time.

Yep, that's what I thought. The CBP route sounds too uncertain to rely upon, so as long as getting a replacement AP through the embassy is a viable option, it may be more prudent to just do that. This is all, of course, the worst case scenario type hypothetical -- in order for this to materialize, the AP documents would have to actually get lost in the mail, which is probably not going to happen. Edited November 20, 2006 by am1996

[frndly1 1]

AM, the problem that I see is that you dont have anything with the gov't offical stamp/logo that says you were approved. An email is not going to cut it. But like others said "do you want to take the risk". As we all know strange things have happened and will continue to happen. I think people have given you their thought but you are not accepting of them which is your choice. I don't think anyone is going to tell you what you want to hear.

Good luck and good luck getting your wife back into this country.

Typically most countires have a USCIS office assigned to them. In most countries, this is a Overseas Office of USCIS, but in the case of Canada, they are served by VSC. In this case, you would probably talk to a CO who has been assigned as the USCIS liason and they will work with you to be able to get a replacement AP document if it had been lost or destroyed. It would probably take some time and would cause you to rearrange some travel plans, but in the grand scheme of things, you should be able to get a replacement document if it came to that.

This makes sense. So the US Embassy in Canada would contact VSC to obtain a replacement AP for her? As long as we are talking about a reasonable delay in getting the documents (a week or so), delaying my wife's return to the US until the embassy receives a replacement AP document for my wife would not be an issue for us.

In terms of CBP, I think they would probably turn you around if you didn't have the document in hand and instruct you to go to the local consulate to get a replacement document or allow you to enter the US if you had prima fascie evidence of AP approval and direct you to go to the CBP office when you got the document for a deferred inspection. But that depends on the CBP officer and their supervisors at the time.

Yep, that's what I thought. The CBP route sounds too uncertain to rely upon, so as long as getting a replacement AP through the embassy is a viable option, it may be more prudent to just do that. This is all, of course, the worst case scenario type hypothetical -- in order for this to materialize, the AP documents would have to actually get lost in the mail, which is probably not going to happen.