Dual citizenship

[newacct 688]

I don't even know how to answer this question. but my wife was given a hard time leaving her country yesterday. She didn't want to show her home country passport, because they asked here where she was going and to the US she replied. In her foreign passport, she is required to have a visa to come to the USA, of course she can't get that as she is already a citizen of the USA. So to get through the gate, she showed both her home country passport and her US passport. But then they know she is a dual citizen.

But she IS a dual citizen (right?). This is above-board and honest. She is not hiding anything. So what if they know?

Is this the airline doing this? or the government exit controls? The airline should only care about you being able to enter the destination, so a U.S. passport should be sufficient; but sometimes airline staff think it's their job to give people a hard time. The exit controls I don't know about. It is possible that the country requires some kind of document or other procedure to exit if the person doesn't have a foreign visa?

And they they think since you do have multiple passports, you are some kind of spy.

That sounds ridiculous. I'm sure that is not the official policy of the country.

Just seems to me, should get rid of that place of birth in the US passport, either you are a US citizen all the way or not.

She is a U.S. citizen all the way. Why is the place of birth relevant? It is just identifying information.

Further on this subject of leaving here, when we arrived at the St. Paul airport, at the American Airlines, we were the only ones there at the time. With four people standing behind the counter watching us, told us we have to use that new automatic check in. First thing we had to do was to swipe the same credit card we used to buy the tickets. Then got a message, this is an international flight so you must swipe your passport. If you skip any of these two steps, it stops, you will never get your plane ticket.

So I was wondering if as a natural born US citizen if I had a flight to say Brazil where a visa for that country is required, would I have to swipe that too? I would think so as that is a requirement to for a US citizen to travel to Brazil, need that visa first.

I am not sure what the automatic machines do with the passport. I think they are just to pull up your ticket. Often times you already gave the airline the information about how you're entering the destination country when you purchased the ticket.

So In my wife's case trying to leave her home country, no computer there, but was asked where she was going, in her home country, is required to have a US visa to come here.

It is not the same. If you went to the U.S. airport to go to Brazil with a Brazilian passport, they would be fine with it, even if you were born in the U.S.

So do feel their questions to her were valid in showing additional proof, her US passport in this case was justified. This did lead into other question about her employment, her marriage to me, and so forth. But with just a US passport and no place of birth in it, these questions would never have to be asked. She did say, to leave her home country, took an extra ten minutes to explain all this. With a very llong line behind her.

The reason they asked questions was probably because (from what they saw) she was also a citizen of that country (which is true). Again, if it's the airline doing this, they really shouldn't be caring about this.

Wonder if the DOS thought about all this stuff. Wonder if the DOS is even capabile of thinking?

I don't think the DOS cares about other countries' entry/exit procedures.

[NickD 203]

But she IS a dual citizen (right?). This is above-board and honest. She is not hiding anything. So what if they know?

Is this the airline doing this? or the government exit controls? The airline should only care about you being able to enter the destination, so a U.S. passport should be sufficient; but sometimes airline staff think it's their job to give people a hard time. The exit controls I don't know about. It is possible that the country requires some kind of document or other procedure to exit if the person doesn't have a foreign visa?

That sounds ridiculous. I'm sure that is not the official policy of the country.

She is a U.S. citizen all the way. Why is the place of birth relevant? It is just identifying information.

I am not sure what the automatic machines do with the passport. I think they are just to pull up your ticket. Often times you already gave the airline the information about how you're entering the destination country when you purchased the ticket.

It is not the same. If you went to the U.S. airport to go to Brazil with a Brazilian passport, they would be fine with it, even if you were born in the U.S.

The reason they asked questions was probably because (from what they saw) she was also a citizen of that country (which is true). Again, if it's the airline doing this, they really shouldn't be caring about this.

I don't think the DOS cares about other countries' entry/exit procedures.

Your reponse appears to be based on your opinions and some assumptions, and not directly dealing with the DOS on these issues.

Yes she was born in that country and that was not her choice, her choice was to become a US citizen, and as a US citizen, she should be able to enter and leave that country as such. But our DOS made an agreement with her country that she must maintain her citizenship with that country and have a passport to enter or leave that country. And of course the airlines cannot make that determination, but we were not dealing with a human on this issue, dealing with a machine that prints out her tickets that was already preprogrammed by somebody to get all of this information first before that ticket will be printed out.

Any country can deny entry, and that is done by their POE, but that denial should be based strictly on the country that you are a citizen from. Not to mention, it very expensive for us to maintain that foreign passport. And while as a natural US citizen, very free and welcomed to visit that country to spend my US dollars there, she is not in the same situation as me, because her place of birth without her choice was born in that country.

Back in 1986, there was a conference on this place of birth issue that got nowhere with some 15 countries participating in, 13 of the 15 agreed this place of birth was not an issue with them. But ironically the two countries, hers was one of them that could least afford decent health care, and can't even take care of their own were the ones that objected. And her family members can't even come here for a visit without a visa first unless they own property and have strong commentments in their home country.

Not much different than being behind that iron curtain. US is nothing but immigrants from day one, people seeking a new and better life, was a five year stuggle for my wife to become a US citizen. Ha, even sitting with friends and famly the civics test issue came up, most born here couldn't even answer those questions.

It would be nice if it wasn't for these agreements, and my wife could openly enter her home country as a US citizen, because that is exactly what she is. And she had to do a hell of a lot more to get that citizenship than just being born here.

And yes, the POE has the right to ask you any questions before they permit you to enter. Even a hell of a lot worse comeing back to this country. Had to have all of her luggage and personal belongings inspected twice coming back with very long lines. Spend more time in lines than on her actual flight.

[newacct 688]

Your reponse appears to be based on your opinions and some assumptions, and not directly dealing with the DOS on these issues.

Yes she was born in that country and that was not her choice, her choice was to become a US citizen, and as a US citizen, she should be able to enter and leave that country as such. But our DOS made an agreement with her country that she must maintain her citizenship with that country and have a passport to enter or leave that country. And of course the airlines cannot make that determination, but we were not dealing with a human on this issue, dealing with a machine that prints out her tickets that was already preprogrammed by somebody to get all of this information first before that ticket will be printed out.

Any country can deny entry, and that is done by their POE, but that denial should be based strictly on the country that you are a citizen from. Not to mention, it very expensive for us to maintain that foreign passport. And while as a natural US citizen, very free and welcomed to visit that country to spend my US dollars there, she is not in the same situation as me, because her place of birth without her choice was born in that country.

Back in 1986, there was a conference on this place of birth issue that got nowhere with some 15 countries participating in, 13 of the 15 agreed this place of birth was not an issue with them. But ironically the two countries, hers was one of them that could least afford decent health care, and can't even take care of their own were the ones that objected. And her family members can't even come here for a visit without a visa first unless they own property and have strong commentments in their home country.

Not much different than being behind that iron curtain. US is nothing but immigrants from day one, people seeking a new and better life, was a five year stuggle for my wife to become a US citizen. Ha, even sitting with friends and famly the civics test issue came up, most born here couldn't even answer those questions.

It would be nice if it wasn't for these agreements, and my wife could openly enter her home country as a US citizen, because that is exactly what she is. And she had to do a hell of a lot more to get that citizenship than just being born here.

And yes, the POE has the right to ask you any questions before they permit you to enter. Even a hell of a lot worse comeing back to this country. Had to have all of her luggage and personal belongings inspected twice coming back with very long lines. Spend more time in lines than on her actual flight.

Her U.S. citizenship means nothing in that country, because she is a citizen of that country. Each country decides who are its citizens. You keep going on and on about how she became a U.S. citizen but that has no bearing on her other citizenships. She is a citizen of that country if they say she is. You do not get to say whether she is or is not a citizen.

So in the eyes of that country, she is treated like any other citizen of that country, and are subject to the same requirements as any other citizen of that country. Most countries require their citizens to enter and exit using that country's passport.

Sure, if the U.S. passport didn't list her place of birth, she might be able to hide the fact that she is a citizen of that country (although the computer would probably still figure it out based on the matching name and birth date). And then she might have an easier time going through the procedures, but then she would be breaking the law of that country if there's a law that citizens must enter and exit that country with their passport. Is this what you want her to do? Sneak and hide her way to break the laws?

This has nothing to do with the U.S. or DOS. Each country makes its own laws about nationality and entry and exit. If you don't like them, you don't have to go to that country.

[NickD 203]

Just tried to post that it may not be simple as just showing your home countries passport to enter or leave that country. And yes, there are countries with governments that feel just because you were born there, they own you for life. Just like guys that meet a girl they like and feel they own them as well. Or parents that have kids and feel like they are their salves. Or even can have a boss that way, as well as there are people that feel they don't have to obey the common sense laws of the country.

Just have to learn how to deal with it. But nothing is simple.