Chinese incursion 19km, but 750 sq km at stake for India

[mota bhai 2,675]

With Congress in the center, I doubt they are going to take any military action.

That is what I'm hearing from others as well. Lots of talk of Macau offshore accounts of prominent Congress-wallahs.

Although I am just as leery of the BJP - those guys are warmongers. India's GOP. They disgust me.

[mota bhai 2,675]

Here's a column by Sushil Kumar, former chief of the Indian navy.

A candid assessment will reveal we are operationally disadvantaged across the LAC. In handling border situations, nuclear deterrence is hardly of consequence, as the military equation is determined solely by “conventional” war-fighting capability. In this respect, it would be absurd to compare our war-fighting capability with that of the PLA. China belongs to a different league and we would only be deluding ourselves if we believe that our nuclear deterrent has a sobering influence on China.

Removing the intrusion during the Kargil war, or launching Operation Parakram, may have worked with Pakistan, but against the PLA, a coercive manoeuvre would be a different ballgame. Our strategic calculations would need to keep in mind the PLA’s aggressive war-fighting doctrine of “Forward Defence”, matched by its robust build-up along the entire McMahon Line.

...

Handling the Sumdorong Chu situation in 1986 was commendable, but we need to remember that the PLA has come a long way since then. With a vastly upgraded conventional war-fighting capability, the PLA has rapidly modernised its armed forces in comparison to ours, which have been degraded through years of neglect. We consequently lack the refinements needed for manoeuvre warfare in our mountainous borders with China. With improved border infrastructure and massive airlift resources, the PLA can deploy up to four full-fledged mountain divisions to any point along the LAC within 24 hours. In contrast, our troops remain bogged down by decrepit border infrastructure and lack of mobility. That is the ground reality.

...

Hopefully, we are not going to make the type of strategic blunder Great Britain made in the 1960s and 1970s, when it opted for the Polaris-Trident programme to bolster its nuclear deterrence. Massive resources were diverted that emasculated Britain’s conventional war-fighting capability. It cost the Royal Navy dearly. An atrophied Royal Navy realised the consequences of this folly much later in1982, when it could barely assemble a motley group of ships to sail for the Falklands. A navy that took centuries to build and proudly ruled the waves was eclipsed by the misplaced strategic priorities of its government. The Ladakh incident may blow over, but it ought to act as a wake-up call to review our strategic priorities.

Edited May 2, 2013 by amriki bhai

[Harsh_77 718]

That is what I'm hearing from others as well. Lots of talk of Macau offshore accounts of prominent Congress-wallahs.

Although I am just as leery of the BJP - those guys are warmongers. India's GOP. They disgust me.

I cannot say if BJP is war monger or not as, India did not ever go on full scale war with any country but I can say BJP did handle Kargil very well.

The key point of the administration at that point was no talks or negotiation until Pak goes behind LOC , unfortunately Congress does not go with that stance, they just go ahh let go talk, lets have negotiation at the end of the day nothing comes out of the negotiation.

[mota bhai 2,675]

The key point of the administration at that point was no talks or negotiation until Pak goes behind LOC , unfortunately Congress does not go with that stance, they just go ahh let go talk, lets have negotiation at the end of the day nothing comes out of the negotiation.

Yes. India knows it can't fight China.

[mota bhai 2,675]

Another column, this one by someone called Prakash Katoch, a "veteran Special Forces Lieutenant General". Dude sounds pissed. Throwing around words like 'treason'.

Feeding the information that this Chinese action is ‘localized’ may serve the immediate political aim of soothing public and media outrage temporarily but not analyzing the issue in finer detail would be fooling ourselves and constitute disservice to the nation amounting to treason.

...

During an international seminar on China in late 2012, when Indian scholars spoke about Chinese assistance and arming of the Maoist insurgency in India, the sheepish response by the Chinese was that this could be happening without the knowledge of the Chinese Communist Party (CCP), the PLA and Chinese intelligence agencies, to which the Indian response was that this cannot be believed in the first place but if true, China was permitting anti-India non-state actors to operate from its soil.

...

What needs to be understood is that the military strategy of China is chalked out very deliberately and intimately between the CCP and the PLA. The PLA Chief reports directly to the CCP, not to Chinese Government ... Not only would the DBO intrusion be with the blessings of the CCP, China would have assessed what would be the Indian reaction ... Such assessments would have taken into account the prevailing political situation within India with approaching elections.

...

Even the most foolish would fail to believe that a local PLA commander on his own accord would go and establish a post more than 10 kilometres from his existing location. The DBO intrusion needs to be seen in context of the strategic importance of the area in relation to the Karakoram Pass astride the silk route to Yarkand, proximity of Chinese presence in adjoining Aksai Chin, the situation in Demchok and Chinese presence in Gilgit-Baltistn-Shaksgam. The policy makers would do well to analyze how this intrusion can be used as a base to threaten the sole route to troops at the Base Camp of Siachen Glacier and beyond to the Northern and Central glaciers on the Saltoro Range, affect patrolling by the ITBP to Karakoram Pass, threat to defence of Ladakh from the cumulative Chinese presence in the region, what would the Chinese have done if such an intrusion had been done by India and would mere diplomatic rhetoric and vacillation not imply giving time to the Chinese to establish more firmly; develop a metal road linking DBO with Aksai Chin, make permanent high altitude defences including a helipad and reinforce and expand the post gradually, and should that happen (of which possibility exists), what will India do?

...

In this particular instance, the political hierarchy who does not want to take any step beyond dialogue (despite clear assertions by Chinese Foreign Ministry that PLA is in their own territory) would do well to educate themselves as to what constitutes “escalation” and how to respond in such situation by studying the yesteryears Sino-Indian standoffs at Nathu La, Doka La, Wangdung, especially what escalation or diffusion did the Indian response cause in these cases. In 2007, when Chinese destroyed Indian bunkers near Doka La, at the Sikkim-Bhutan-Tibet trijunction, the Chinese had already buried the 2005 agreement promising peace and tranquility till the border is settled. Our policy makers appear suffering from the same 1962 syndrome that China has no evil designs against India. Chinese designs on Ladakh have never been appreciated. The 2006 Google imagery showed an extraordinary large scale (1:500) terrain model extensively duplicating eastern Aksai Chin built close to Yinchuan (capital of Ningxia autonomous region), the 3,000 × 2,300 feet model is being used for tank war-games. When India was battling Pakistanis in Kargil during 1999, China was already developing a road in eastern Aksai Chin towards south of KK Pass, significance of which was glossed over. In April 2012, China called upon Japan and South Korea to establish astronomical observatories in Aksai Chin. To think that China has no plans on Ladakh will be the height of foolishness considering persistent ground and air Chinese violations in the area. India should have had a complete Division deployed in Eastern Ladakh a decade back considering LC or LAC, grabbers are takers and we should not expect anything different just because we were fool enough to hand back a captured strategic height like Hajipir.

...

This Chinese intrusion aside from being a physical challenge is a psychological challenge. We must measure up to it. If we do not, we should be prepared to lose more territory. Leave it to the Chinese to take physical action to evict our new post. If they do, we should evict them from DBO. This is a game of nerves. Let the Chinese up the ante and if they do, there should be no reason to fear.

...

There appears a larger sinister design to bridge the China-Pakistan handshake between Gilgit-Baltistan with Aksai Chin. If our policy makers cannot see the writing on the wall, we should be prepared to lose our hold on many places along the Himalayas.

[mota bhai 2,675]

Found this on Twitter. From 1963.

Alt image url if tweet is deleted - http://i.imgur.com/e7W3KX1.jpg

[mota bhai 2,675]

This is cool. Indian and Chinese posters trolling each other on a Pakistani defense message board.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/indian-defence/249709-army-chief-tells-government-its-time-act-chinese-border-deadlock.html#post4233552

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

. China belongs to a different league

China follows Sun Tzu to the letter:

"Begin by seizing something which your opponent holds dear; then he will be amenable to your will."

and

"On serious ground, I would try to ensure a continuous stream of supplies."

Edited May 2, 2013 by The Patriot

[mota bhai 2,675]

China follows Sun Tzu to the letter:

The New York Times is quoting someone who was once Indian military as saying the Chinese are behaving irrationally.

In disputes with Japan, Vietnam and the Philippines, among others, China’s claims revolve around islands or sea lanes that are potentially rich in oil and gas deposits. What puzzles Indian analysts is that China has chosen to squabble over a barren moonscape frequented only by nomadic cattle herders.

“It’s an inexplicable provocation,” said Gen. Vasantha R. Raghavan, a former top Indian military commander who once commanded the region in dispute. “There is something happening inside China which is making the military act in an irrational manner.”

...

The latest spat between India and China is bound to resolve itself this year, one way or another. In six months, snow and bitterly cold weather will make the Chinese encampment very difficult, if not impossible, to maintain.

Edited May 2, 2013 by amriki bhai

[Darnell 8,478]

I really do wanna call Tech Support for the Indian Spy Drones Desk and ask some things.

Ought to be a hoot !

[mota bhai 2,675]

China ends stand-off, pulls out troops from Daulat Beg Oldi sector

At the last of a series of flag meetings which took place at 4 p.m. on Sunday, commanders from both sides shook hands and ordered their troops, facing each other 300 metres away, to dismantle their tents.

This was preceded by the Ministry of External Affairs (MEA) here working the phones and Indian Ambassador to China S. Jaishankar going to the Chinese Foreign Office twice to hold talks.

While the Chinese pulled down their tents, chained their dogs and withdrew at about 7 pm, troops of the Indo Tibetan Border Police (ITBP), which had been ordered to face the Chinese troops, started falling back to their original positions. By 10 p.m., the plateau was clear of the troops and their related paraphernalia.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Called on account of sanity? What is the world coming to!

[mota bhai 2,675]

Called on account of sanity? What is the world coming to!

I have to admit, I'm surprised. But I doubt this is over. The Chinese will be back in DBO one day.

[Robby999 1,024]

I really do wanna call Tech Support for the Indian Spy Drones Desk and ask some things.

Ought to be a hoot !

Next time one of my batching systems go down I will let you call the support desk for me! Almost as much fun!!

Edited May 5, 2013 by Robby999

[Darnell 8,478]

Oh, but the fun starts when I start asking the help desk person about choots and lunds and which he/she prefers. That's when it's really fun. You could try the same, on a non-critical call, I'm a thinking...

It's almost as fun as cow-tipping here in Texas.

Edited May 6, 2013 by Darnell