Chinese incursion 19km, but 750 sq km at stake for India

[mota bhai 2,675]

China on Tuesday rebuffed India's plea to withdraw its troops, squatting 19km inside Indian territory at Raki Nala in the Depsang Bulge area, fresh imagery from Indian spy drones has shown that the People's Liberation Army has already started using trucks to replenish supplies for over 30 soldiers stationed there. The pictures, which also show that PLA is trying to convert the track there into a proper road, are transforming what the government had called a "localized problem'' into a first-rate diplomatic crisis.

...

The audacious intrusion into the Depsang Bulge, a table-top plateau, threatens to cut off India's access to some 750 sq km area in northern Ladakh.

...

Army chief General Bikram Singh ... gave several options to the CCS [Cabinet Committee on Security], ranging from cutting off supply lines of the Chinese troops at Raki Nala to Indian troops conducting a similar maneuver in some other sector. But the government is sticking to the "no military escalation'' policy as of now.

...

China is insisting on the demolition of India's observation post at Chumar as a pre-condition for de-escalation. As ties threaten to nosedive, the observation post that can overlook troop movements on the Chinese side has emerged as the main bone of contention.

...

China ... is uncomfortable with India being able to peep at the movement on the highway. The Chinese, in fact, have frequently tried to "immobilize'' the surveillance cameras positioned at the Chumar post by cutting wires.

Last year, Indian troops had intercepted two Chinese personnel on mules across the Chumar post. Though they were subsequently let off, with language being a barrier, China got hugely irritated about the incident. Holding that the two Chinese were from its revenue department, Beijing since then has been pressing hard for the Chumar post to be dismantled.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Chinese-incursion-19km-but-750-sq-km-at-stake-for-India/articleshow/19826487.cms

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Looks like India is about to lose some territory. China has been very successful at expanding its "Sovereignty" into disputed areas as of late. Next, China will start building the infrastructure in that area it needs to project its influence over an even larger region. China has officially entered its imperial age. They have yet to encountered any significant resistance, and the US is curiously silent for the most part.

[mota bhai 2,675]

Looks like India is about to lose some territory. China has been very successful at expanding its "Sovereignty" into disputed areas as of late. Next, China will start building the infrastructure in that area it needs to project its influence over an even larger region. China has officially entered its imperial age. They have yet to encountered any significant resistance, and the US is curiously silent for the most part.

China will be restricted by 'natural' boundaries, though. China can overrun Ladakh but they can't have the Kashmir Valley. Or I should say they can't keep it. They can take it but a valley overrun by mujahideen that don't accept Indian control aren't going to accept Chinese control either. And even if they decided to skip that area and move south towards New Delhi, they can't hold on the populated regions of north India. Too many guns and bombs in the hands of regular people.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

China will be restricted by 'natural' boundaries, though. China can overrun Ladakh but they can't have the Kashmir Valley. Or I should say they can't keep it. They can take it but a valley overrun by mujahideen that don't accept Indian control aren't going to accept Chinese control either. And even if they decided to skip that area and move south towards New Delhi, they can't hold on the populated regions of north India. Too many guns and bombs in the hands of regular people.

China is nibbling here and there. They had 5,000 years, some say, to learn patience.

[mota bhai 2,675]

China is nibbling here and there. They had 5,000 years, some say, to learn patience.

Sure, but they are still limited by things that have existed for just as long.

Unless they plan to do a Moghul style invasion of mainland India, which would be totally out of character for the Chinese.

[I AM NOT THAT GUY 5,715]

Unless they plan to do a Moghul style invasion of mainland India, which would be totally out of character for the Chinese.

True. They will continue to pluck the low hanging fruit. For now, much of that easy pickings seems to be in the South China Sea.

[mota bhai 2,675]

True. They will continue to pluck the low hanging fruit. For now, much of that easy pickings seems to be in the South China Sea.

I am enjoying reading about this in the Indian media. The single overriding theme I've noticed in all Indian English-language coverage is self-pity at India's weakness and subservience to China. It seems India knows that what China wants, China gets and it's only hope is to try to influence what they want.

[GandD 5,966]

China will be restricted by 'natural' boundaries, though. China can overrun Ladakh but they can't have the Kashmir Valley. Or I should say they can't keep it. They can take it but a valley overrun by mujahideen that don't accept Indian control aren't going to accept Chinese control either. And even if they decided to skip that area and move south towards New Delhi, they can't hold on the populated regions of north India. Too many guns and bombs in the hands of regular people.

Oh I really look forward to the day China has to deal with the mujahideen. It would be nice to see other countries having to deal with the radical Islamist sects.

[mota bhai 2,675]

And here's what the Chinese have to say about this. From the Global Post. It seems like the Chinese really hate the Indian media.

New Delhi bears brunt of border hysteria
Global Times | 2013-5-2 0:13:01

Indian media and opposition politicians have been reporting that Chinese soldiers intruded on Indian-claimed territory and erected tents inside Indian borders. Such reports run along the same lines as those in 2009 that alleged Chinese soldiers had entered into India and painted the rocks with red spray paint. Indian officials denied such reports eventually, though the case remains unsolved.

A report in the Times of India claimed that many Weibo users are demanding the Chinese government "teach India a lesson." It further said that tacit official encouragement was behind such Internet postings, as the government would "block any campaign against what they regard as 'friendly countries.'" The Times of India is India's largest English newspaper in terms of circulation. Its nonsense will influence mainstream society.

Some Indian officials caution that China should pay no heed to the radical voices among some Indian media which sensationalize news. But their malicious impact is so real that it cannot be ignored.

The Indian public has been informed about Chinese troops' "intrusion," while provocative words uttered by Indian media and politicians can be read by Chinese people online. However, the reality is that communication over border issues between China and India has usually been smooth. Officials from both sides speak highly about the peaceful state of border areas.

There have been discrepancies between the two concerning the exact position of the Line of Actual Control. Troops from both sides patrol around their claimed border lines, but both try to avoid causing any real frictions.

The Indian government ought to clarify the so-called "intrusion" in a timely way and assume the responsibility of maintaining a good atmosphere. However, it hasn't done so. It has remained silent and ambiguous, which indulges Indian media habits.

Indian media have continuously created trouble for the Sino-Indian relationship. India seems to be in the driving seat of the bilateral relationship. Indian policy toward China can be fickle, while China's levers for balancing the relationship are much simpler and scarcer.

Therefore, Indian media and opposition should be balanced, so as to prevent them from enjoying privileges outside intergovernmental communications and negotiations.

Either the Indian government should stand up to report true information to Indian society, or it should let Chinese public opinion contend with India's.

Staking claims to its borders is of crucial significance to China and peace and stability along the border are also vital to India. Current peace and status quo is not bestowed by India alone.

China should firmly maintain its friendly policy toward India. However, this doesn't mean that China will ignore provocations. Otherwise, the unhealthy tendency of hyping up China will keep happening.

Edited May 2, 2013 by amriki bhai

[KarlJergen 0]

They have placed one platoon not a whole division. And rumor has it there is more platoon coming. That's less than 50 men depending on the size of their platoons.

India must be really weak if it cannot even send an airstrike into or near the area even to demonstrate who the boss is. India was willing to fight with Pakistan over this same area.

[mota bhai 2,675]

India must be really weak if it cannot even send an airstrike into or near the area even to demonstrate who the boss is. India was willing to fight with Pakistan over this same area.

Compared to China, India is weak.

[Teddy B 17,252]

China will be restricted by 'natural' boundaries, though. China can overrun Ladakh but they can't have the Kashmir Valley. Or I should say they can't keep it. They can take it but a valley overrun by mujahideen that don't accept Indian control aren't going to accept Chinese control either. And even if they decided to skip that area and move south towards New Delhi, they can't hold on the populated regions of north India. Too many guns and bombs in the hands of regular people.

Ahhh sounds like the paradise here we call Vermont.

[KarlJergen 0]

Compared to China, India is weak.

China almost lost a battle with Vietnam several times over the years since the end of the Vietnam War. Had the Vietnamese had better air power they would have won. The Philippines also has let China know where the line is.

As far as the military, China is not the mighty giant either the world or it thinks it is. Though India has gone it alone for a while, if China decided to flex its muscle it would not only have a large population of mujahadeen but even some of the other Asian countries might jump in and help under those circumstances.

Never back down from a bully. And that's what China is acting like right now.

[mota bhai 2,675]

China almost lost a battle with Vietnam several times over the years since the end of the Vietnam War. Had the Vietnamese had better air power they would have won. The Philippines also has let China know where the line is.

As far as the military, China is not the mighty giant either the world or it thinks it is. Though India has gone it alone for a while, if China decided to flex its muscle it would not only have a large population of mujahadeen but even some of the other Asian countries might jump in and help under those circumstances.

Never back down from a bully. And that's what China is acting like right now.

I was reading the Tweets coming from a prominent Indian politician, someone who is in the opposition.

He claims Indian behavior today has a lot to do with the huge amounts of dollars Indian ruling party politicians have stashed away in accounts in Macau.

[Harsh_77 718]

China is just testing how much India would flex and how far Indian politicians will go.
With Congress in the center, I doubt they are going to take any military action.