ROC with no bills/rental lease in both our names

[caly 48]

After reading all the RFE threads in the ROC forums lately, I've started to worry about our filing (which will happen in about 3.5 months from now).

First, some background: I am the LPR (POE date: Nov 18th 2011) and my husband is the USC. We got married Jan 14th 2011.

As mentioned in the title of this post, we don't have any joint bills at this point.. They are still all only in my husband's name. I guess you can say we have a traditional relationship in that my husband is the sole bread-winner and he takes care of the finances.. and I stay at home and keep up the house for the most part. I know how to pay the bills if the need should ever arise, and he does chip in with the housework; but for the most part we seem to have naturally gravitated towards these two distinct roles/responsibilities because they suit our personalities. It works for us. We've also just never considered adding my name to the bills because it's just never been necessary. We don't really want to add my name to the accounts now, but we will unless it will seem like we only did it for show since it won't be long before our ROC window opens (so it won't be long-term proof like they would want anyway). Your opinions on this matter are appreciated.

As for the lease, when I arrived, we were about 2 months away from his rental agreement switching from an annual lease to a month-to-month lease that it was just not worth having to start a new lease with my name on it (which would have most likely meant having to sign into a new one-year agreement). Could we just have our landlord write an affidavit saying that he knows that I've been living here even though my name is not on the lease? My husband works with our landlord's wife at a nearby school (she also happens to be the judge in the neighboring town, if that helps at all.. but I don't see how it could affect anything ).

We also didn't have a joint bank account until a few months ago (Dec 31st 2012 to be exact). Being a one-income family, we didn't and still don't really need it but at least I have access to our money now, I suppose. We do have 2 joint credit cards from before I arrived (1 that we both use regularly, and 1 that we've never ever used). The credit card statement does not distinguished between whose card was used though, since the cards have the same credit card number on them. But we do have receipts for clothes and things we've bought online with the last four digits of the credit card and either his name or mine on them.

Evidence we have and will be submitting as evidence of joint residence/co-mingling:

• Dave's drivers license and my state ID showing the same address (the address on his DL is handwritten though because he was living at a different address when it was issued and his license isn't up for renewal for another 6 years)
• National Fuel Receipt of Advice (Oct 2012) for when we had a gas leak and they had to turn off the gas. Hubby's name is listed as the customer, our landlord is listed as the owner of the house and my name and signature is on it (as his wife) since I was the one who let the National Fuel guy in.
• Joint bank account statements (from Dec 31st 2012 - present)
• My name listed as the primary beneficiary on his cash deposits, retirement accounts and life insurance policy
• His name listed as the primary beneficiary on my life insurance policy [i'll be submitting my beneficiary nomination form in the next 2 weeks or so]
• Our joint credit cards
• Our health insurance cards with both our names on it
• Bi-annual dentist bills with both names showing we use the health insurance regularly [For now, I've only been able to find the bill for Sep 2012 and Apr 2012. There should be one more for Feb 2012, but it's either misfiled, or got shredded. Will see if the dentist can print us a copy.]
• Joint car insurance [This may be a problem as we have gone paperless and GEICO's web portal only shows our current bill.. Does anyone know if it would be possible to get a written document from them saying we have been renewing our joint auto policy with them every 6 months from a certain date? Dave's going to call on Friday to see if we can somehow get past statements.]
• Annual Joint renters insurance (June 30 2012 - present... so we'll have two of these as we'll need to renew our policy next month)
• IRS Tax transcripts for 2011, 2012 filing jointly
• IRS Tax refund notices for 2011 (one for each of us sent to our address with the exact same information on both)

Trips taken together (boarding passes, travel itineraries, passport entry stamps, receipts, photos etc):

• Singapore - Germany - JFK (Nov 2011)
• Singapore, Japan & Indonesia (Nov 2012)

Affidavits:

• Dave's parents who we have dinner with at their house every 3-4 weeks plus holidays like birthdays,christmas, thanksgiving etc.. We also helped them move over a period of 3 days last summer.
• A colleague of Dave's who we also consider to be a friend.
• Our landlord

Other stuff:

• A wedding invitation from a friend of mine addressed to both of us as our address
• A couple of emails I have exchanged with Dave's sister (dated 14-16 feb 2012)
• Cards from his parents addressed to both of us with our address on it
• Photographs taken by Dave's father when we are over at their old and new house on special holidays (we're otherwise camera shy so we don't really have any other photos!)

As the husband says "we can only give them what we have and hope it's sufficient". We can get a few more affidavits if needed. Can you think of anything else we could include? Any thoughts/ideas would be much appreciated.

Sorry about the really long post and thanks so much for reading!

[Anna Grant 169]

Have you both made wills with the other as beneficiary?

[Pinkrlion 2,724]

I know that it takes time to change information, I have been married 4 months, and I still do one change every two weeks. He can change his driver's license, he can submit a change of address and pay a fee to make it the same.

[caly 48]

Have you both made wills with the other as beneficiary?

No, we have not. but we've discussed it following a recent medical emergency. Perhaps we should just get it done. Thanks for the idea!

I know that it takes time to change information, I have been married 4 months, and I still do one change every two weeks. He can change his driver's license, he can submit a change of address and pay a fee to make it the same.

I know, right? It's seems like I'm constantly finding something I forgot to update/or need to update. Especially banking and insurance information back home, which are less easy to do from overseas!

We've talked about it, but hubby is reluctant to spend the $17.50 to replace his driver's license. His rationale is that the handwritten address is a permanent change and he would get into trouble for faking it, so it's not exactly unofficial. And it's not like you can write and erase your amended address at will. But I'm sure if I insist, he will order the replacement. We'll look into it. Thanks.

Edited May 1, 2013 by caly

[bigdog 376]

I did not see any major issues with your evidence and it is well rounded, or you at least can articulate why it is the way it is. You can probably print out a Policy Declaration sheet called a DEC sheet from Geico, how about AAA, and Costco etc. I know VJ mentions the address on the DL, changing the address is good for emergency reasons and trying to get home with LE or FD blocking access to your home. Our addresses are different due to my employment; I made a note of it on my cover sheet. Being out of your home country causes challenges to information and account changing. My wife has not changed anything overseas and we are in the process of finishing up a new trust. Her passport, homes in China are still in her maiden name and will not be changed. Most of the people with issues appear to be lacking supportive information to prove up their cases. I posted a thread about ROC RFE's on this earlier today, glad it was just not me who noticed issues.

.

[caly 48]

I did not see any major issues with your evidence and it is well rounded, or you at least can articulate why it is the way it is. You can probably print out a Policy Declaration sheet called a DEC sheet from Geico, how about AAA, and Costco etc. I know VJ mentions the address on the DL, changing the address is good for emergency reasons and trying to get home with LE or FD blocking access to your home. Our addresses are different due to my employment; I made a note of it on my cover sheet. Being out of your home country causes challenges to information and account changing. My wife has not changed anything overseas and we are in the process of finishing up a new trust. Her passport, homes in China are still in her maiden name and will not be changed. Most of the people with issues appear to be lacking supportive information to prove up their cases. I posted a thread about ROC RFE's on this earlier today, glad it was just not me who noticed issues.

.

Thanks for your input. I saw your thread right after I had posted this one and thought it was very sound advice indeed!

After seeing post after post about people getting RFE'd for more proof of financial co-mingling and large majority of responders advising providing joint bank account statements and jointly held bills for the full duration of conditional residence, I couldn't help but start getting a bit nervous since we don't have those items.

We will definitely look into getting the DEC sheet from Geico. We're not AAA members and unfortunately no Costco near us (oh what my husband would give to have a Costco open up here! ) The only membership thing we have is to BJ's and it's a discounted plan from Dave's work that won't issue more than 1 card for each account, so that's not helpful for this.

Changes to my account information back home are thankfully not too impossible.

Once again, I appreciate your taking the time to respond.

[jjbandero 39]

You seem to have a good selection of documents, one way my husband and I overcame the address issue on the driver's license was to include the car registration documents from the DMV because they come from a 3rd party source and it shows that we clearly changed our addresses even though it may not show it on the license. I also included other documents that shows that we are sharing the same residence and in my humble opinion, the more official these are the better. For example, I've included our Social Security statements and his jury duty summons to show we're at the same address.

Cheers

[grinchus 11]

Hi, my husband and I had to do an RFE. I'm not sure exactly why, but I'm thinking it's because I didn't take his last name when we married. I don't know why they wanted more info.

Anyway, we also don't have any bills in both of our names, or any rental agreement. I am the primary "breadwinner" between the two of us, so I also just go ahead and manage all of the bill paying. He could certainly be on the bills if he wanted to, but it's just easier for me to pay them (online banking), so I just do it (though if I had thought more carefully about it I would have added him so that we would have this sort of evidence for the ROC). Also, I owned my - now our - home before we had even met, so we didn't buy it together, and only I am on the title.

So for the RFE this is what I provided:

Joint checking/savings accounts

Evidence from my work that he is my spouse for health insurance

A printout showing that he is the primary beneficiary for my retirement accounts

Tax transcripts AND a photocopy of our tax return for the last 3 years showing we filed jointly

Letters and emails addressed to both of us

The licence for our dog showing that we both own him (no kids!)

Drivers licenses showing our address

Itineraries for trips we took together

Photos of us together w/ family and friends

The immigration officers just want you to make a credible case that you are in a bona fide marriage, with whatever accompanying documentation you have to add weight to it.

We just got the letter today saying he was approved!

[caly 48]

You seem to have a good selection of documents, one way my husband and I overcame the address issue on the driver's license was to include the car registration documents from the DMV because they come from a 3rd party source and it shows that we clearly changed our addresses even though it may not show it on the license. I also included other documents that shows that we are sharing the same residence and in my humble opinion, the more official these are the better. For example, I've included our Social Security statements and his jury duty summons to show we're at the same address.

Cheers

The only really official mail that I can think of that has my name on it so far (aside from bank statements and the tax refund document I already listed) are paychecks from occasionally subbing at the school where Dave works and my employment letter from the school after clearing their security checks.

Including the car registration document sounds like a great idea.. I would have never have even thought to do that. Thanks for the idea.

Hi, my husband and I had to do an RFE. I'm not sure exactly why, but I'm thinking it's because I didn't take his last name when we married. I don't know why they wanted more info.

Anyway, we also don't have any bills in both of our names, or any rental agreement. I am the primary "breadwinner" between the two of us, so I also just go ahead and manage all of the bill paying. He could certainly be on the bills if he wanted to, but it's just easier for me to pay them (online banking), so I just do it (though if I had thought more carefully about it I would have added him so that we would have this sort of evidence for the ROC). Also, I owned my - now our - home before we had even met, so we didn't buy it together, and only I am on the title.

So for the RFE this is what I provided:

Joint checking/savings accounts

Evidence from my work that he is my spouse for health insurance

A printout showing that he is the primary beneficiary for my retirement accounts

Tax transcripts AND a photocopy of our tax return for the last 3 years showing we filed jointly

Letters and emails addressed to both of us

The licence for our dog showing that we both own him (no kids!)

Drivers licenses showing our address

Itineraries for trips we took together

Photos of us together w/ family and friends

The immigration officers just want you to make a credible case that you are in a bona fide marriage, with whatever accompanying documentation you have to add weight to it.

We just got the letter today saying he was approved!

Yay! Congratulations! Both of you must be over the moon right now.

I actually didn't take my husband's last name either. Feeling a whole lot better hearing that someone else who lacked the same kinds of evidence we do didn't have too much trouble with ROC. Thank you so much for taking the time to read and comment!

[Vishnya 4]

grinchus

You said "we also don't have any bills in both of our names, or any rental agreement" How did you explain that! My husband is also a "breadwinner" and we live with his parents (so no lease, or bills) we just give them money by a friendly agreement. Also we don't have joint account(( For us it is ridicules. We attached mom's letter (handwritten) saying that we live with her, but I think we still will get RFE!! So my question is: How does the RFE corer letter looks like, How should we explain our leasing "problem" and how much time do they usually give you for RFE!! thanks

Edited May 3, 2013 by Vishnya

[gap1 21]

I'm sorry, but I find it difficult to understand how people get into this situation. First of all, when you research this whole process, the first thing it tells you is that you should have joint documents. Also, you know you're going to have to do this process a million more times after the wedding from day one.

Even if you're lucky enough to have in-laws that pay for housing, etc, how can your foreign spouse build their credit in America? Your credit gets wiped clean when you move countries. The first thing I did was put my husband's name on as many bills as possible, not only to prove that we were married, but so he could start to build his credit in a new country.

Sorry, not trying to make you feel bad or anything, I'm just genuinely baffled how this situation could happen.

Edited May 3, 2013 by gap1

[caly 48]

I'm sorry, but I find it difficult to understand how people get into this situation. First of all, when you research this whole process, the first thing it tells you is that you should have joint documents. Also, you know you're going to have to do this process a million more times after the wedding from day one.

Even if you're lucky enough to have in-laws that pay for housing, etc, how can your foreign spouse build their credit in America? Your credit gets wiped clean when you move countries. The first thing I did was put my husband's name on as many bills as possible, not only to prove that we were married, but so he could start to build his credit in a new country.

Sorry, not trying to make you feel bad or anything, I'm just genuinely baffled how this situation could happen.

No offense taken. We did do our research and discussed adding my name to the bills but then decided not to do joint bills for various reasons. I think we do have a fairly well-rounded package of documents, and honestly don't think I would be as worried right now if not for what seems like a recent slew of RFEs for I-751 applications.

We also thought long and hard about the joint bills/accounts issue in relation to credit history. I spent days.. if not weeks, researching and reading everything I could about building credit history. I learnt that having bills in your name actually does nothing to help build credit but can hurt your credit score if you forget to pay something on time. Basically having bills does nothing, paying on time does nothing, however, NOT paying on time will result in a late payment or collection placed on your credit history which will affect your credit score. The easiest and best way to kick start your credit history and score as a recent immigrant or anyone without any credit history is to be added as a joint account holder on someone's credit card (especially helpful if said person has a fairly good credit history and score).

Just like non-international couples, everyone has their reasons for doing things a certain way. Not every decision we make is based solely on immigration procedures.

Regardless, we've made our (proverbial) bed and we'll sleep in it when the time comes.

Edited May 3, 2013 by caly

[grinchus 11]

grinchus

You said "we also don't have any bills in both of our names, or any rental agreement" How did you explain that! My husband is also a "breadwinner" and we live with his parents (so no lease, or bills) we just give them money by a friendly agreement. Also we don't have joint account(( For us it is ridicules. We attached mom's letter (handwritten) saying that we live with her, but I think we still will get RFE!! So my question is: How does the RFE corer letter looks like, How should we explain our leasing "problem" and how much time do they usually give you for RFE!! thanks

I guess I didn't really explain anything, I just sent different evidence. I didn't send any bills or rental agreement b/c I didn't have any. What I did send was joint accounts (which I also think is silly, but I knew it would be asked for), benefits statement showing that he's my spouse on my work health insurance, joint tax returns, christmas cards and other letters/emails addressed to both of us, etc.

The RFE letter states: "To establish eligibility for removal of conditions status, it is requested that additional documentation be submitted to establish a good faith marriage...Such examples may include, but are not limited to the following" and then it goes on to give a list of the types of financial and other records you can provide (proof of joint residence, etc.).

You will notice that the wording is "Such examples MAY INCLUDE but are not limited to". What this is saying is that things like bills, lease, etc. are examples of things that you can submit, but are not required, and are not the only things you can submit. If you have them, well that is clearly a good thing and they should be submitted, as they are fairly clear and obvious proof. If you don't have them, well you simply don't have them. Hopefully you can demonstrate your continued, bona fide marriage in other ways.

We had enough evidence besides bills & lease to prove that our marriage is genuine.

[caly 48]

We were able to get GEICO to email us a copy of all our past Policy Declaration pages (Thanks, bigdog!)

I've also updated my evidence list slightly based on all the feedback we've gotten. The bolded portions are where I've made changes.

Sorry about the weird formatting. I played with it for a good long time and this was the best I could manage.

Evidence of joint residence/co-mingling:
· Dave's drivers license and my state ID showing the same address (the address on his DL is handwritten though because he was living at a different address when it was issued and his license isn't up for renewal for another 6 years) [we will be getting his license replaced so they will show the same address]
· National Fuel Receipt of Advice (Oct 2012) for when we had a gas leak and they had to turn off the gas. Hubby's name is listed as the customer, our landlord is listed as the owner of the house and my name and signature is on it (as his wife) since I was the one who let the National Fuel guy in.
· Joint bank account statements (from Dec 31st 2012 - present)
· Print-outs of our transaction history logs for our personal bank accounts with fund transfers to each other highlighted
· My name listed as the primary beneficiary on his cash deposits, retirement accounts and life insurance policy
· His name listed as the primary beneficiary on my life insurance policy [i'll be submitting my beneficiary nomination form in the next 2 weeks or so]
· Our joint credit cards
· Our health insurance cards with both our names on it
· Bi-annual dentist bills with both names showing we use the health insurance regularly [For now, I've only been able to find the bill for Sep 2012 and Apr 2013. There should be one more for Feb 2012, but it's either misfiled, or got shredded. Will see if the dentist can print us a copy.]
· Joint car insurance (march 2011 – present)
· Joint Annual renters insurance (June 30 2012 - present... so we'll have two of these as we'll need to renew our policy next month)
· IRS Tax transcripts for 2011, 2012 filing jointly
· Mail showing joint address

• IRS Tax refund notices for 2011 (one for each of us)
• Dave’s Salary notice
• 3 of my Paychecks
• Fingerprint clearance approval notice (Oct 2012) from the NYS Education Department
• Letter from our health insurance (feb 2012) informing me that there is a pre-existing condition exclusion for my coverage in effect from Dec 2011 – Dec 2012
• A wedding invitation from a friend of mine addressed to both of us at our address
• Cards from his parents addressed to both of us with our address on it

Trips taken together (boarding passes, travel itineraries, passport entry stamps, receipts etc):
· Singapore - Germany - JFK (Nov 2011)
· Singapore, Japan & Indonesia (Nov 2012)


Affidavits:
· Dave's parents who we have dinner with at their house every 3-4 weeks plus holidays like birthdays,christmas, thanksgiving etc.. We also helped them move over a period of 3 days last summer.
· A colleague of Dave's who we also consider to be a friend.
· Our landlord


Other stuff:
· A couple of emails I have exchanged with Dave's sister (dated 14-16 feb 2012)
· Dec 2012 concert tickets [These have my sister’s name on them as she bought them as a Christmas present for us. I will be including chat logs that cover us needing Dave’s photo ID to pick them up at the box office and our concert experience]


Photographs
· Family photos taken by Dave's father when we are over at their house on special holidays
· A couple of photos from a work event we attended together
· A few photos from our trip in Nov 2012 of us at a temple in Japan and with my friends and family

Feeling better and better about this. We also still have some time to think about and work on other things to include.

Edited May 3, 2013 by caly

[gap1 21]

No offense taken. We did do our research and discussed adding my name to the bills but then decided not to do joint bills for various reasons. I think we do have a fairly well-rounded package of documents, and honestly don't think I would be as worried right now if not for what seems like a recent slew of RFEs for I-751 applications.

We also thought long and hard about the joint bills/accounts issue in relation to credit history. I spent days.. if not weeks, researching and reading everything I could about building credit history. I learnt that having bills in your name actually does nothing to help build credit but can hurt your credit score if you forget to pay something on time. Basically having bills does nothing, paying on time does nothing, however, NOT paying on time will result in a late payment or collection placed on your credit history which will affect your credit score. The easiest and best way to kick start your credit history and score as a recent immigrant or anyone without any credit history is to be added as a joint account holder on someone's credit card (especially helpful if said person has a fairly good credit history and score).

Just like non-international couples, everyone has their reasons for doing things a certain way. Not every decision we make is based solely on immigration procedures.

Regardless, we've made our (proverbial) bed and we'll sleep in it when the time comes.

That's not true at all. While yes, if you pay bills late it hurts your credit, but if you don't have a credit history (nothing in your name) it's almost the same as bad credit. My husband had excellent credit in the UK, but when he moved here it was wiped clean so they wouldn't accept him on his own for cellphone accounts, electric bills, credit cards, etc. It wasn't until we found a Capital One card that specialized in new immigrants that he was able to build up his credit.

While it would be lovely for every decision to not be based on immigration procedures, we are all immigrant couples that would not be allowed to live our lives if it weren't for said procedures going through. Unfortunately, we have to think about these things in order for the next chapter in our marriage to be allowed to go on.

Anyway, as you said, every couple makes their decisions for valid reasons, so I really do wish you the best. I'm sure you'll end up perfectly fine and approved. Good luck!