Senior Democrat to reintroduce legislaion to reinstate the military draft

[GaryC 7]

I never really understood why they made DC a non state. I mean, how would you get help with a problem you would normally go to a senator or congressman for? They really should make them part of Virginia or Maryland. No USC should be without representation. It's what makes us a "representative democracy".

I hear Marion Barry's phone number is still listed.

To bad (and thank God!) he doesn't have a vote on federal laws.

[Sofiyya 1,687]

DC was never intended to be a state. It was established by Congress as a federal district, and the land was donated for that purpose by both Maryland and Virginia, but it's boundaries continued to expand. There was no vote for DC residents until 1961, no non-voting delegate until 1971, and no mayor until 1975. I lived there during the fight for the delegate and self-rule. Then, I ran away lol!

It would make little sense to have the US capital city be part of a state, for much of it is federal property, beyond state jurisdiction.

There is a difference between no representation and diminished representation.

Not enough to quibble over, and both are entered into by choice of where you choose to live and define your status.

[melly 0]

I'm not sure how this will sound, probably not great in some respects.

But do you really want your sisters, mothers, wives to be forced into the military and fight overseas, or just fight in general? Not that it's okay for males to be forced, but I seriously think it's a bad idea to put women into the draft. I have no problem with women who want to join of their own accord, but I absolutely disagree with making the draft mandatory for women.

And if it's community service in some form, as someone else mentioned, is that going to take me away from my job? Will I still be able to make enough money to pay my bills? And what if both myself and my husband were called, what about our children? What happens to them?

If it's grandfathered in then it wouldn't affect me, however it would affect my son, and I would fully support his decision not to serve in the military.

I completely respect those who do choose to serve, and those who have fought and died for this country.

I just don't respect making that a non-choice.

[peezey 0]

I'm not sure how this will sound, probably not great in some respects.

But do you really want your sisters, mothers, wives to be forced into the military and fight overseas, or just fight in general? Not that it's okay for males to be forced, but I seriously think it's a bad idea to put women into the draft. I have no problem with women who want to join of their own accord, but I absolutely disagree with making the draft mandatory for women.

And if it's community service in some form, as someone else mentioned, is that going to take me away from my job? Will I still be able to make enough money to pay my bills? And what if both myself and my husband were called, what about our children? What happens to them?

If it's grandfathered in then it wouldn't affect me, however it would affect my son, and I would fully support his decision not to serve in the military.

I completely respect those who do choose to serve, and those who have fought and died for this country.

I just don't respect making that a non-choice.

There is overwhelming research indicating service learning is undeniably positive in creating well-rounded, civic minded graduates. If we had the choice to conscientiously object to military service, I only see this draft/mandatory civic service as a positive idea. I would never want anyone related to me in the military, but the fact remains it isn't my choice if people I care for want to serve via the military. I would also be thrilled if my kids took a gap year to serve in Americorps or some such program or spread out the service throughout their college career. The real world becomes just that, real, to you when you have to experience it and the people who live in it everyday. Many adults are still clueless at 30, 35, 40.

Edited November 21, 2006 by peezey

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I don't object to civic service. There are better ways to serve your country than blowing off someone's head because someone tells you that group X is your enemy. In the current climate especially - I'm certainly don't agree with a military draft for a policy as ambiguous and amorphous as the War on Terror.

[peezey 0]

I don't object to civic service. There are better ways to serve your country than blowing off someone's head because someone tells you that group X is your enemy. In the current climate especially - I'm certainly don't agree with a military draft for a policy as ambiguous and amorphous as the War on Terror.

I totally agree and I guess I'm getting more into the idea of service because so many people here seem adamantly against such a thing yet they don't see much wrong with a draft, and play the "you can leave if you want to" card, which is just a shallow argument, IMO. I would never favor a bill or a legislator advocating conscription. However, if mandatory federal service were required once one turns 18, and one of the ways it could be fulfilled is military service, then I'd have to say I'm for it.

[mybackpages 0]

I don't object to civic service. There are better ways to serve your country than blowing off someone's head because someone tells you that group X is your enemy. In the current climate especially - I'm certainly don't agree with a military draft for a policy as ambiguous and amorphous as the War on Terror™.

I totally agree and I guess I'm getting more into the idea of service because so many people here seem adamantly against such a thing yet they don't see much wrong with a draft, and play the "you can leave if you want to" card, which is just a shallow argument, IMO. I would never favor a bill or a legislator advocating conscription. However, if mandatory federal service were required once one turns 18, and one of the ways it could be fulfilled is military service, then I'd have to say I'm for it.

I hear everything you are saying and agree completely until I start thinking about my civil liberties. I am still confused on the constitutional legality of a draft (of any kind - military or community). I know the founders believed civic engagement was an obligation on us not a right that we could choose to exercise or not. I find mysefl arguing with myself on this.

[DeadPoolX 9]

I'm not sure how this will sound, probably not great in some respects.

But do you really want your sisters, mothers, wives to be forced into the military and fight overseas, or just fight in general? Not that it's okay for males to be forced, but I seriously think it's a bad idea to put women into the draft. I have no problem with women who want to join of their own accord, but I absolutely disagree with making the draft mandatory for women.

And if it's community service in some form, as someone else mentioned, is that going to take me away from my job? Will I still be able to make enough money to pay my bills? And what if both myself and my husband were called, what about our children? What happens to them?

If it's grandfathered in then it wouldn't affect me, however it would affect my son, and I would fully support his decision not to serve in the military.

I completely respect those who do choose to serve, and those who have fought and died for this country.

I just don't respect making that a non-choice.

If there was a draft, why shouldn't it be equal? What makes women more "special" than men? Why shouldn't they have to serve as well? I've always found the idea that only men can get drafted and have to serve to be a very antiquated concept. If women want equal rights, they need to take the good and the bad.

Your concern about community service is one that echoes mine -- if I am forced into that, will I still be able to make enough money to support myself, and help support my family? It's a good question. In addition, I hadn't considered the situation of two parents being called into military service. I don't know what would happen to the children then.

It's in my opinion that having people shipped overseas or working long hours on community projects would be, in the long run, bad for the economy. The economy prospers when people are working at their jobs and spending money. If people aren't working at their jobs (at least not nearly as much and making far less money) and aren't spending money, then the economy suffers.

If the situation is grandfathered in, then I'm safe. I'm happy about that. However, I'd still oppose a draft of any sort -- military or civic. I don't believe people should be forced into any sort of duty. That's not what the U.S. is about...or at least, not what we're supposed to be about.

[Heracles 417]

immigrants should "zip their lips" about issues that affect them.

You got that right. Most of us here where not invited to come live here. Therefore we need to respect and follow the rules of this nation. If we do not like them or agree with them we are all allowed to leave and head on back to our mother countries..

I also want to say that I am not in favor of a draft now or ever. Unless of course WW3 broke out and we were invaded or something.

The draft is a stunt / tactic anyway from Democrats to scare people and make them fear going to Iraq. Therefore side with their pull out of Iraq asap strategy. Bit of reverse psychology at play here. Just a taste of what is to come from the humanitarian left..

[BJZags 17]

And if it's community service in some form, as someone else mentioned, is that going to take me away from my job? Will I still be able to make enough money to pay my bills? And what if both myself and my husband were called, what about our children? What happens to them?

So much for the whole social contract thing, and lets just look out for number one. What about your next door neighbor who had to be taken away from his or her job? Is it all right as long as it doesn't affect you personally? Pretty selfish IMO. But I'm assuming if such a creature was ever passed, it would NOT have retroactive affect, and the mandatory service obligation would be required of ALL people after they graduated high school or reached age 18 so the only job they'd be giving up would be at Taco Bell. Retroactive implementation would simply be un-workable.

[peezey 0]

I'm not sure how this will sound, probably not great in some respects.

But do you really want your sisters, mothers, wives to be forced into the military and fight overseas, or just fight in general? Not that it's okay for males to be forced, but I seriously think it's a bad idea to put women into the draft. I have no problem with women who want to join of their own accord, but I absolutely disagree with making the draft mandatory for women.

And if it's community service in some form, as someone else mentioned, is that going to take me away from my job? Will I still be able to make enough money to pay my bills? And what if both myself and my husband were called, what about our children? What happens to them?

If it's grandfathered in then it wouldn't affect me, however it would affect my son, and I would fully support his decision not to serve in the military.

I completely respect those who do choose to serve, and those who have fought and died for this country.

I just don't respect making that a non-choice.

If there was a draft, why shouldn't it be equal? What makes women more "special" than men? Why shouldn't they have to serve as well? I've always found the idea that only men can get drafted and have to serve to be a very antiquated concept. If women want equal rights, they need to take the good and the bad.

Your concern about community service is one that echoes mine -- if I am forced into that, will I still be able to make enough money to support myself, and help support my family? It's a good question. In addition, I hadn't considered the situation of two parents being called into military service. I don't know what would happen to the children then.

It's in my opinion that having people shipped overseas or working long hours on community projects would be, in the long run, bad for the economy. The economy prospers when people are working at their jobs and spending money. If people aren't working at their jobs (at least not nearly as much and making far less money) and aren't spending money, then the economy suffers.

If the situation is grandfathered in, then I'm safe. I'm happy about that. However, I'd still oppose a draft of any sort -- military or civic. I don't believe people should be forced into any sort of duty. That's not what the U.S. is about...or at least, not what we're supposed to be about.

Safe from what? You are making 40 hours a year of service sound like you're choosing between food on the table and, say, doing the counseling you want to do pro bono. This is what I'm saying. You can't afford 40 hours? You don't make sense to me. You say your choice of career is the best one that can be thought of to serve your community on one hand, yet you can't get past a potential obligation to maybe provide those services for free for a few hours a year? This is what civic service comes down to. No one is saying you need to go to a farm for 3 months a year and leave your family and do work you are unfamiliar with.

As for the draft, I do no agree with it one bit. If military service is the only way to fulfill this requirement, I am against it unequivocably.

MBP: I have been thinking about the civil liberties aspect of this, too, but I keep returning to the fact we have to do a lot of things we don't want to do for the good of the whole. I think registering with the Selective Service is scary, but if we all had to do it at age 18, and no specific type of service were required, I don't see it as a violation. In fact, I am of the mind we have gone too far in the "me, myself, and I" mentality as Americans and this kind of "correction" might be just what is needed to get back on course.

[Heracles 417]

, and the mandatory service obligation would be required of ALL people after they graduated high school or reached age 18 so the only job they'd be giving up would be at Taco Bell. Retroactive implementation would simply be un-workable.

Mandatory service has quite a few benefits for society. First of all it teachers teens to grow up and get over their #######. It also brings people together from all classes, ethnicities, backgrounds etc and teaches them to cooperate and work in a team. Most of all it teaches national unity..

Edited November 21, 2006 by Infidel

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

immigrants should "zip their lips" about issues that affect them.

You got that right. Most of us here where not invited to come live here. Therefore we need to respect and follow the rules of this nation. If we do not like them or agree with them we are all allowed to leave and head on back to our mother countries..

What does that even mean? I'm talking about freedom of expression here - it has nothing to do with "respecting and following the rules of the nation". I live here, I pay taxes, I have an investment in this country. More than that I was "invited" as you put it by my fiancee.

Quite simply, immigrants have as much of a right as anyone else to participate in a public discourse. As an immigrant yourself, presently or "intending", you should understand that.

[Heracles 417]

What does that even mean? I'm talking about freedom of expression here - it has nothing to do with "respecting and following the rules of the nation". I live here, I pay taxes, I have an investment in this country. More than that I was "invited" as you put it by my fiancee.

Quite simply, immigrants have as much of a right as anyone else to participate in a public discourse. As an immigrant yourself, presently or "intending", you should understand that.

So what about a renter paying off a landlords mortgage. Should they have the right to decide what happens to a the landlord's house or refuse to leave if the landlord decides to sell the house considering their rent payments are technically paying for the mortgage?

Coming from the UK, what sort of rights do people get in a commonwealth country as a PR? What your suggestion is that a immigrant who is merely permitted to live in a country, should have exactly the same rights as someone who is a citizen of that nation.. As an EU passport holder myself, I would be laughed at if I suggested this in the UK..

Edited November 21, 2006 by Infidel

[mawilson 2,133]

Coming from the UK, what sort of rights do people get in a commonwealth country as a PR? What your suggestion is that a immigrant who is merely permitted to live in a country, should have exactly the same rights as someone who is a citizen of that nation.. As an EU passport holder myself, I would be laughed at if I suggested this in the UK..

I believe EU passport holders living in the UK do have the same rights as UK citizens

(including the right to vote -- even Commonwealth citizens living in the UK can vote.)