Senior Democrat to reintroduce legislaion to reinstate the military draft

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

Common sense? And here I was thinking its completely disingenuous to suggest that Legal Permanent Residents who pay taxes like everyone else, should have no opinion about a draft - when they could potentially be included in that draft.

What is this? Starship Troopers?

Would a LPR in the UK have a say? It's like saying a renter should have the right to tell the landlord what to do with their house, considering they are possible paying their mortgage payments..

Not really the point I was making there… Just addressing the questionable suggestion that immigrants should not be able to express an opinion about issues that directly affect them. Free speech anyone?

[peezey 0]

Because required civic engagement takes me away from my career and my family. I think I'd better serve society working at my chosen profession, helping those with psychological problems.

When you choose to live in a society, you make a contract with said society to behave in ways that add to the common good, attempt to prevent lawlessness, etc. This doesn't always mean you get to do everything you want. Sometimes it requires following rules, laws, codes that you wouldn't necessarily implement for yourself, but nonetheless, are what they are.

[Heracles 417]

I agree. But one should not be FORCED to fight and maybe die for that country either if they don't have the same rights as the citizen.

That I agree with as well. Do LPR have to serve under a draft?

Remember, you are not forced to serve as an LPR. You can leave the country at any time, giving up your residency.

U.S. Citizens are forced to serve and face criminal charges if they don't.

There are many things you are "forced" to do as a condition to be an LPR. You need to ask for permission to work, ask for permission to live here, get medicals and have interviews. In each case it's a requirement to comply with our laws.

Which is fair enough..

[kaydee457 13]

Having said that, my comments about assimilation are still valid. Immigrants should assimilate or not migrate to this country.

Saying your own comments are valid does not make them so, it just makes them your own comments.

Who defines assimilation? Is assimilation based on one's dedication to one's country? What is the definition of dedication? And are only immigrants to assimilate culturally & civically, or should old people assimilate into younger behaviors? Should modest people assimilate into the sex culture that's rampant in the US?

Assimilation means to abide by our laws, and respect our customs. If that means serving in the military then that's a condition of immigration.

Assimilation is also being redefined in many communities to include speaking english as a requirement to get a drivers license, or generally to get any government service one needs whilst living here.

This trend is an about face after many years of the opposite. Right now you can take the drivers test in Polish where I live in Chicagoland.

I'm always amused by the indignation, such as just spoken by aussie, over the fact that they may have to abide by the law as a condition to living here. Sorry aussie, I really do like you but that's the way it is. You know this before coming here.

Anyway, if there was/is a draft, does anyone really know for a fact that LPR's are required to register?

I lived through those years but in all my 40+ years of dealing with the military I can't remember ever meeting a LPR, or Foreign National residing in the U.S. that did not volunteer as a way to gain citizenship.

Did they really draft LPR's back then?

[peezey 0]

I agree. But one should not be FORCED to fight and maybe die for that country either if they don't have the same rights as the citizen.

That I agree with as well. Do LPR have to serve under a draft?

Remember, you are not forced to serve as an LPR. You can leave the country at any time, giving up your residency.

U.S. Citizens are forced to serve and face criminal charges if they don't.

There are many things you are "forced" to do as a condition to be an LPR. You need to ask for permission to work, ask for permission to live here, get medicals and have interviews. In each case it's a requirement to comply with our laws.

Which is fair enough..

You most certainly WILL be required to particpate as an LPR. The original draft included all non-citizen males, and to this day, all legal non-citizen male residents are required to register with the Selective Service when they turn 18 thru age 26.

[Heracles 417]

Who defines assimilation? Is assimilation based on one's dedication to one's country? What is the definition of dedication? And are only immigrants to assimilate culturally & civically, or should old people assimilate into younger behaviors? Should modest people assimilate into the sex culture that's rampant in the US?

One who has traveled and lived overseas in a number of different nations would probably understand assimilation. I see the opposite happening here. Where people come and do as they please and hide under a highly over used, misinterpreted and taken way out of context first amendment.

Like being asked at an ATM to select English, in America. Seriously ####### is the ######???

Edited November 20, 2006 by Infidel

[peezey 0]

Having said that, my comments about assimilation are still valid. Immigrants should assimilate or not migrate to this country.

Saying your own comments are valid does not make them so, it just makes them your own comments.

Who defines assimilation? Is assimilation based on one's dedication to one's country? What is the definition of dedication? And are only immigrants to assimilate culturally & civically, or should old people assimilate into younger behaviors? Should modest people assimilate into the sex culture that's rampant in the US?

Assimilation means to abide by our laws, and respect our customs. If that means serving in the military then that's a condition of immigration.

Assimilation is also being redefined in many communities to include speaking english as a requirement to get a drivers license, or generally to get any government service one needs whilst living here.

This trend is an about face after many years of the opposite. Right now you can take the drivers test in Polish where I live in Chicagoland.

I'm always amused by the indignation, such as just spoken by aussie, over the fact that they may have to abide by the law as a condition to living here. Sorry aussie, I really do like you but that's the way it is. You know this before coming here.

Anyway, if there was/is a draft, does anyone really know for a fact that LPR's are required to register?

I lived through those years but in all my 40+ years of dealing with the military I can't remember ever meeting a LPR, or Foreign National residing in the U.S. that did not volunteer as a way to gain citizenship.

Did they really draft LPR's back then?

Of course they are required to register. Have we forgotten the contigents of immigrant battallions that fought for the US in all World Wars? In the Spanish-American War?

I don't think it is indignant for an LPR to express concern over a potential new law. Just because a law is suggested and/or enacted doesn't mean we have to agree with it. Disagreeing with something doesn't mean you are choosing not to abide the law.

Why is the ability to take a driver's test in English the end all test of one's English skills? You aren't even required to speak English at an embassy/consulate if it's not your first language and you feel more comfortable interviewing in your native language. What does "trend" have to do with it? That's not a legitimate argument for anything. Mullets were a trend once, we all saw how well that went off.

Edited November 20, 2006 by peezey

[Heracles 417]

Assimilation means to abide by our laws, and respect our customs. If that means serving in the military then that's a condition of immigration.

Assimilation is also being redefined in many communities to include speaking english as a requirement to get a drivers license, or generally to get any government service one needs whilst living here.

This trend is an about face after many years of the opposite. Right now you can take the drivers test in Polish where I live in Chicagoland.

I'm always amused by the indignation, such as just spoken by aussie, over the fact that they may have to abide by the law as a condition to living here. Sorry aussie, I really do like you but that's the way it is. You know this before coming here.

Exactly. Being an Aussie myself I understand that by being here I have to respect and accept the American way of doing things. If I don't like it I can get on a plane or boat and head on back to Australia.. There are quite a few countries which have a military conscription for young males. If you stay over x time in the country, you have to serve period. If I lived there I would respect that..

Australia/ns have quite a love it or leave it attitude, when it comes to Australia..

Edited November 20, 2006 by Infidel

[kaydee457 13]

Having said that, my comments about assimilation are still valid. Immigrants should assimilate or not migrate to this country.

Saying your own comments are valid does not make them so, it just makes them your own comments.

Who defines assimilation? Is assimilation based on one's dedication to one's country? What is the definition of dedication? And are only immigrants to assimilate culturally & civically, or should old people assimilate into younger behaviors? Should modest people assimilate into the sex culture that's rampant in the US?

Assimilation means to abide by our laws, and respect our customs. If that means serving in the military then that's a condition of immigration.

Assimilation is also being redefined in many communities to include speaking english as a requirement to get a drivers license, or generally to get any government service one needs whilst living here.

This trend is an about face after many years of the opposite. Right now you can take the drivers test in Polish where I live in Chicagoland.

I'm always amused by the indignation, such as just spoken by aussie, over the fact that they may have to abide by the law as a condition to living here. Sorry aussie, I really do like you but that's the way it is. You know this before coming here.

Anyway, if there was/is a draft, does anyone really know for a fact that LPR's are required to register?

I lived through those years but in all my 40+ years of dealing with the military I can't remember ever meeting a LPR, or Foreign National residing in the U.S. that did not volunteer as a way to gain citizenship.

Did they really draft LPR's back then?

Of course they are required to register. Have we forgotten the contigents of immigrant battallions that fought for the US in all World Wars? In the Spanish-American War?

I don't think it is indignant for an LPR to express concern over a potential new law. Just because a law is suggested and/or enacted doesn't mean we have to agree with it. Disagreeing with something doesn't mean you are choosing not to abide the law.

Why is the ability to take a driver's test in English the end all test of one's English skills? You aren't even required to speak English at an embassy/consulate if it's not your first language and you feel more comfortable interviewing in your native language. What does "trend" have to do with it? That's not a legitimate argument for anything. Mullets were a trend once, we all saw how well that went off.

The "trend" is not an argument that I'm making. It's just an observation as there have been many reports on the news lately that address immigration issues and the cost of maintaining programs that cater to immigrants that don't ever assimilate.

The rationale to the trend is to reduce the burden of having to print documents in three or four different languages. Why should the American taxpayer pay for such services?

Some immigrants, as the argument goes, never assimilate because there's no motivation or need to.

[mybackpages 0]

I'm sorry that you're "insulted". I don't see you arguing for the U.S. Citizens that are of the age 18 to 20 that also have no "say" because they're too young to vote.

umm, last time I checked citizens aged 18-20 could vote

they just can't have a beer

Which one do you think they would prefer?

[Trompe le Monde 1,107]

I'm sorry that you're "insulted". I don't see you arguing for the U.S. Citizens that are of the age 18 to 20 that also have no "say" because they're too young to vote.

umm, last time I checked citizens aged 18-20 could vote

they just can't have a beer

Which one do you think they would prefer?

And which right would they exercise more often?

Though personally it's quite outrageous that soldiers returning from iraq under 21 can't relax with a nice cold one.

[aussiewench 9]

I'm always amused by the indignation, such as just spoken by aussie, over the fact that they may have to abide by the law as a condition to living here. Sorry aussie, I really do like you but that's the way it is. You know this before coming here.

If you note in my response to Infidel in an earlier post. I am not disagreeing that one should not abide by the laws as a condition of living here. What I AM disagreeing with is that one should be drafted to fight and die for a country that one has no right to vote in.

[kaydee457 13]

I'm always amused by the indignation, such as just spoken by aussie, over the fact that they may have to abide by the law as a condition to living here. Sorry aussie, I really do like you but that's the way it is. You know this before coming here.

If you note in my response to Infidel in an earlier post. I am not disagreeing that one should not abide by the laws as a condition of living here. What I AM disagreeing with is that one should be drafted to fight and die for a country that one has no right to vote in.

I heard you the first time however, if you're a male (i know you're not) in that age range and you don't want to serve, then you have a choice.....and you know what that is....

I'm not arguing that it's fair, or unfair. It could be a condition of immigration and residency that one should consider.

Edited November 20, 2006 by kaydee457

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

I'm always amused by the indignation, such as just spoken by aussie, over the fact that they may have to abide by the law as a condition to living here. Sorry aussie, I really do like you but that's the way it is. You know this before coming here.

If you note in my response to Infidel in an earlier post. I am not disagreeing that one should not abide by the laws as a condition of living here. What I AM disagreeing with is that one should be drafted to fight and die for a country that one has no right to vote in.

I heard you the first time however, if you're a male (i know you're not) in that age range and you don't want to serve, then you have a choice.....and you know what that is....

I'm not arguing that it's fair, or unfair. It could be a condition of immigration and residency that one should consider.

Would you now be conceding that immigrants have the right to express an opinion about issues that may directly affect them?

[kaydee457 13]

I'm always amused by the indignation, such as just spoken by aussie, over the fact that they may have to abide by the law as a condition to living here. Sorry aussie, I really do like you but that's the way it is. You know this before coming here.

If you note in my response to Infidel in an earlier post. I am not disagreeing that one should not abide by the laws as a condition of living here. What I AM disagreeing with is that one should be drafted to fight and die for a country that one has no right to vote in.

I heard you the first time however, if you're a male (i know you're not) in that age range and you don't want to serve, then you have a choice.....and you know what that is....

I'm not arguing that it's fair, or unfair. It could be a condition of immigration and residency that one should consider.

Would you now be conceding that immigrants have the right to express an opinion about issues that may directly affect them?

Beech away, because that's all it will amount to. Without the right to vote these issues they are simply non-issues for you and irrevocable (as long as you want to stay in the U.S.A.) conditions placed on your residency.

If it should happen you'll have three choices: comply, leave or disappear and meld in as an illegal. Where's the "discussion"?

Edited November 21, 2006 by kaydee457