Senior Democrat to reintroduce legislaion to reinstate the military draft

[mawilson 2,133]

I guess that's one way to stop illegal immigration -- ship them off to Iraq -- LOL

[Alex+R 0]

I guess that's one way to stop illegal immigration -- ship them off to Iraq -- LOL

Hey, they came here to do "jobs Americans don't want to do," right?

I certainly don't want that job...

[mawilson 2,133]

Hey, they came here to do "jobs Americans don't want to do," right?

I certainly don't want that job...

[Ban Hammer 13,678]

We can't do all the stuff they want us to do without forcing us all to go kill ourselves. I hear this draft will include women.

ah enjoying those equal rights are we, alex?

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Do you even have any day how that sounds and the implications of it. One has a duty to the country, not the government.

Really? Our duty is to our country? And who exactly articulates what a citizen's duty to a country is but it's government. You will notice that I specifically mentioned "ELECTED officials" as defining that duty, so theoretically, this so-called duty is all our own doing. I'm not saying I like how this sounds, just trying to describe the slippery-slope the use of the military in general creates. Perhaps the purpose of proposing this legislation is only trying to scare the bejesus out of us, and force us to take drastic action, i.e. get the heck out of Iraq?

Here's what he's saying his reason is...

...Rep. Charlie Rangal (D-NY) on the grounds that the armed forces should have a “more equitable representation of people making sacrifices."

I guess that's one way to stop illegal immigration -- ship them off to Iraq -- LOL

Consistent with our history as a nation of immigrants, the burden of defending America has always been shared by the many among us who are not yet citizens. While policymakers on both sides of the immigration debate battle over the proper role of immigration policy in homeland security, thousands of immigrants from around the world have answered the call to duty and stepped forward to put their lives on the line in the war against terrorism.

According to the U.S. Department of Defense:

* More than 60,000 immigrants serve on active duty in the U.S. Armed Forces.

* Immigrants make up nearly 5 percent of all enlisted personnel on active duty in the U.S. Armed Forces.

* Nearly 7 percent of U.S. Navy enlisted personnel are immigrants.

On July 3, 2002, President Bush recognized the contributions of immigrants in the U.S. Armed Forces by signing an executive order that provided for “expedited naturalization” of non-citizen men and women serving on active-duty status since September 11, 2001. The order granted some 15,000 members of the U.S. military who served fewer than three years the right to apply for expedited citizenship in recognition of their service.1

For four dozen troops involved in the post 9/11 operations in Afghanistan, the executive order meant they could briefly put down their weapons and pick up pens to focus on another common objective: to become U.S. citizens.

Service in the military can also be required of non-citizens in this country. All lawful permanent residents and naturalized citizens are required to register with the Selective Service and would be required to serve in the military if drafted. Under the law, failure to register for the Selective Service can result in fines up to $250,000 and/or a sentence of up to five years. The failure of a legal permanent resident to register may also prevent them from becoming naturalized.

Historically, immigrants have made significant contributions to defense of America:

* More than 20 percent of the recipients of the Congressional Medal of Honor in U.S. wars have been immigrants, a total of 716 of the 3,406 Medal of Honor recipients have been immigrants.

* 500,000 immigrants fought in the Union Army during the Civil War.

* A special regimental combat team made up of the sons of Japanese immigrants was the most decorated of its size during World War II.

* Major U.S. weapons, such as a more advanced ironclad ship, the submarine, the helicopter, and the atomic and hydrogen bombs were developed by immigrants.

* After the passage of Section 329 of the Immigration and Nationality Act, 143,000 non-citizen military participants in World Wars I and II, and 31,000 members of the U.S. military who fought during the Korean War, became naturalized American citizens, according to White House statistics.

A Soldier's Story

Jamal Baadani is a Sergeant in the U.S. Marine Corp. Born in Egypt, he came to America as a child and joined the military after graduating from high school. He explained what motivated his decision: "…I felt I had an obligation to serve the country that helped give my family a new life. It was my way of thanking America for giving me a country to call home."3

Among the many contributions of his career, Baadani has fought in combat in Beirut, defended U.S. oil rigs against attacks by Iran, and trained fellow Marines. After September 11, he founded the "Association of Patriotic Arab Americans in the Military," to highlight the service and sacrifice of Arab Americans defending the US. For Baadani, the attacks of September 11 only re-affirmed his loyalty to America. "Even though I share a common ethnicity with those [perpetrators], I am a proud American", said Baadani in a recent interview.

http://www.ailf.org/ipc/policy_reports_200...001_soldier.asp

[Alex+R 0]

We can't do all the stuff they want us to do without forcing us all to go kill ourselves. I hear this draft will include women.

ah enjoying those equal rights are we, alex?

Sure. And just like any right-thinking male, you can bet your ####### I'd dodge right out of this draft. I'm not going to invade Iran or any other country to further the economic/political imperialism of the U.S.

Some might say avoiding a draft is cowardly; I feel, in this situation, it would be the only ethical thing to do.

Next time we're in a WWII situation, ask me again.

[aussiewench 9]

I guess that's one way to stop illegal immigration -- ship them off to Iraq -- LOL

Consistent with our history as a nation of immigrants, the burden of defending America has always been shared by the many among us who are not yet citizens. While policymakers on both sides of the immigration debate battle over the proper role of immigration policy in homeland security, thousands of immigrants from around the world have answered the call to duty and stepped forward to put their lives on the line in the war against terrorism.

It always amazes me though that one can be fully expected to fight and die for a country, yet not allowed to vote until one is Naturalised. Something is terribly wrong there IMO

Edited November 19, 2006 by aussiewench

[one...two...tree 2,762]

I guess that's one way to stop illegal immigration -- ship them off to Iraq -- LOL

Consistent with our history as a nation of immigrants, the burden of defending America has always been shared by the many among us who are not yet citizens. While policymakers on both sides of the immigration debate battle over the proper role of immigration policy in homeland security, thousands of immigrants from around the world have answered the call to duty and stepped forward to put their lives on the line in the war against terrorism.

It always amazes me though that one is fully expected to fight and die for a country, yet not allowed to vote until one is Naturalised. Something is terribly wrong there IMO

Very good point.

[mawilson 2,133]

It always amazes me though that one can be fully expected to fight and die for a country, yet not allowed to vote until one is Naturalised. Something is terribly wrong there IMO

It always amazes me though that one can be fully expected to fight and die for a country, yet not allowed to drink until one is 21. Something is terribly wrong there IMO

[DeadPoolX 9]

I don't like this idea. I don't like this idea one bit.

One of the purposes of having an all-volunteer military is so that you have personnel who are enlisted who WANT to be in the armed forces. By enforcing a draft, you get individuals who obviously don't want to be there and are only thinking about "how long until my tour of duty is up?" instead of concentrating on the task at hand.

I don't swear allegiance to the politicians of this country -- not to President Bush, and certainly not to Representative Rangel. I swear allegiance to the Constitution of the United States of America and the Bill of Rights, and see no need to obey my government if it begins acting tyrannical. The Founding Fathers said we -- as the people of this country -- have a right to question the authority of this government and even raise up against it if it works against the will of the people. This government was designed for the people and made by the people; any other way just wouldn't be right.

Aside from that, I have severe asthma and corrective lenses. What good would I be in the military? Certainly no good on the frontline. Maybe I'd be worthwhile in a support role (I used to be an audio/video editor and graphic designer, so I know quite a bit about computers...and I'm training to be a psychologist right now), but I can't see myself in the middle of a fire-fight. If anything, I'd be a liability.

Edited November 19, 2006 by DeadPoolX

[edsperfect 25]

U.S. Rep. Charles Rangel, the incoming chairman of the House of Representatives' tax-writing committee, said he would introduce legislation to reinstate the draft as soon as the new, Democratic-controlled Congress convenes in January.

Asked on CBS' "Face the Nation" if he was still serious about the proposal for a universal draft he raised a couple of years ago, he said, "You bet your life. Underscore serious."

"If we're going to challenge Iran and challenge North Korea and then, as some people have asked, to send more troops to Iraq, we can't do that without a draft," he said.

[...]

The New York Democrat had introduced legislation to reinstate the draft in January 2003 before the Iraq invasion ... the idea had no traction in the Republican-led Congress.

[...]

Rangel said his legislation on the draft would also offer the alternative of a couple of years of public service with educational benefits.

http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews....=rss&rpc=22

It will never pass but probably a good idea if you look at history for the last 2500 years. Any country that goes to a mercenary army, which we now have, starts to lose its power, land and economy.

[Ban Hammer 13,678]

It will never pass but probably a good idea if you look at history for the last 2500 years. Any country that goes to a mercenary army, which we now have, starts to lose its power, land and economy.

we, the usa, has a mercenary army? do you have a clue ####### you are talking about?

[BJZags 17]

Aside from that, I have severe asthma and corrective lenses. What good would I be in the military? Certainly no good on the frontline. Maybe I'd be worthwhile in a support role (I used to be an audio/video editor and graphic designer, so I know quite a bit about computers...and I'm training to be a psychologist right now), but I can't see myself in the middle of a fire-fight. If anything, I'd be a liability.

One of the greatest heros in our military was an objector on religious grounds to waging any sort of war. But since he thought his God healed, he could serve in the medical corp. And since his God healed on Saturday, he could also serve in the medical corps seven-days a week. This man went on in a support role to save many dozens of Amercan GI's and win the Congressional Medal of Honor --I don't think he was a liability.

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

It always amazes me though that one can be fully expected to fight and die for a country, yet not allowed to vote until one is Naturalised. Something is terribly wrong there IMO

It always amazes me though that one can be fully expected to fight and die for a country, yet not allowed to drink until one is 21. Something is terribly wrong there IMO

Indeed. Considering that LPR's have no political representation anyway even though they pay the same taxes as everyone else - being shipped off to war for something that contradicts your own moral/ethical code seems a little unjust.

Go to war, get your legs blown off and see how the government thanks you in 30 years time when everyone has more or less forgotten the Iraq war (as happened with Vietnam and Korea) except as a "dirty political episode" - seen a fair few of them in California begging on the streets of Santa Monica. Doesn't seem worth it somehow.

[BJZags 17]

It always amazes me though that one can be fully expected to fight and die for a country, yet not allowed to vote until one is Naturalised. Something is terribly wrong there IMO

My father's father served in some God-forsaken mud-patch in France in WWI before he was a naturalized citizen. I think he believed that he had to show his support for his new country in the most profound way he could. He taught my father the duty to serve, who taught me the same. I suppose this is why I think I am much less of a man then them since I was never an infantryman.