Senior Democrat to reintroduce legislaion to reinstate the military draft

[Trumplestiltskin 5,791]

What does that even mean? I'm talking about freedom of expression here - it has nothing to do with "respecting and following the rules of the nation". I live here, I pay taxes, I have an investment in this country. More than that I was "invited" as you put it by my fiancee.

Quite simply, immigrants have as much of a right as anyone else to participate in a public discourse. As an immigrant yourself, presently or "intending", you should understand that.

So what about a renter paying off a landlords mortgage. Should they have the right to decide what happens to a the landlord's house or refuse to leave if the landlord decides to sell the house considering their rent payments are technically paying for the mortgage?

Coming from the UK, what sort of rights do people get in a commonwealth country as a PR? What your suggestion is that a immigrant who is merely permitted to live in a country, should have exactly the same rights as someone who is a citizen of that nation.. As an EU passport holder myself, I would be laughed at if I suggested this in the UK..

I’m suggesting I have the right to free speech, and the right to express that about issues that directly affect me. That’s a different thing to forcing other people to listen, take notice and act upon them – none of which I am suggesting.

[DeadPoolX 9]

Safe from what? You are making 40 hours a year of service sound like you're choosing between food on the table and, say, doing the counseling you want to do pro bono. This is what I'm saying. You can't afford 40 hours? You don't make sense to me. You say your choice of career is the best one that can be thought of to serve your community on one hand, yet you can't get past a potential obligation to maybe provide those services for free for a few hours a year? This is what civic service comes down to. No one is saying you need to go to a farm for 3 months a year and leave your family and do work you are unfamiliar with.

As for the draft, I do no agree with it one bit. If military service is the only way to fulfill this requirement, I am against it unequivocably.

Well, to be perfectly honest, I hadn't quite thought of it like that. Yes, I suppose I could offer a few psychological services for free and have it count towards the "civic duty" requirement...but the amount would highly depend on where I'm living at the time. If I'm living in California, where expenses are astronomical (and my fiancee is deadset on living on the west coast, so I'm pretty much stuck there), I can't very well afford to give away too much of my time for free. One or two hours a week would be fine; any more than that, and I could see it becoming a real problem.

As for the military draft, you know where I stand on that -- and we're in complete agreement here as well. I'm totally against it. Not just because I feel it's wrong to thrust people who don't want to serve in the military into active service, but I also think an all volunteer military performs better. It's full of men and women who want to be there (in the military that is, not necessarily a war) and therefore, will perform their jobs to very best of their skills.

[Heracles 417]

I’m suggesting I have the right to free speech, and the right to express that about issues that directly affect me. That’s a different thing to forcing other people to listen, take notice and act upon them – none of which I am suggesting.

The law of the land is one which obviously states a PR can be drafted. Therefore if an immigrant does not agree with this they should voice their concerns or leave the country. I think you will find this take-it-or-leave-it attitude in most countries around the world..

So many people, here in this forum alone, have the attitude of 'Well... I am only in America because my partner is here so I should be able to do as I please'.

PR should have a right to voice their concerns, naturally, but not kick and scream if the law is not changed. This is why I am totally against illegal immigrants amnesty as they have disregarded the country's laws yet expect to have a voice with what happens.

[DeadPoolX 9]

I’m suggesting I have the right to free speech, and the right to express that about issues that directly affect me. That’s a different thing to forcing other people to listen, take notice and act upon them – none of which I am suggesting.

The law of the land is one which obviously states a PR can be drafted. Therefore if an immigrant does not agree with this they should voice their concerns or leave the country. I think you will find this take-it-or-leave-it attitude in most countries around the world..

So many people, here in this forum alone, have the attitude of 'Well... I am only in America because my partner is here so I should be able to do as I please'.

PR should have a right to voice their concerns, naturally, but not kick and scream if the law is not changed. This is why I am totally against illegal immigrants amnesty as they have disregarded the country's laws yet expect to have a voice with what happens.

Shouldn't the United States be better than "love it or leave it?" Honestly, I don't care what other countries do. I've always held the U.S. up to higher standards than the rest of the world, and I still do. Unfortunately, it's been letting me down a lot recently.

[peezey 0]

Safe from what? You are making 40 hours a year of service sound like you're choosing between food on the table and, say, doing the counseling you want to do pro bono. This is what I'm saying. You can't afford 40 hours? You don't make sense to me. You say your choice of career is the best one that can be thought of to serve your community on one hand, yet you can't get past a potential obligation to maybe provide those services for free for a few hours a year? This is what civic service comes down to. No one is saying you need to go to a farm for 3 months a year and leave your family and do work you are unfamiliar with.

As for the draft, I do no agree with it one bit. If military service is the only way to fulfill this requirement, I am against it unequivocably.

Well, to be perfectly honest, I hadn't quite thought of it like that. Yes, I suppose I could offer a few psychological services for free and have it count towards the "civic duty" requirement...but the amount would highly depend on where I'm living at the time. If I'm living in California, where expenses are astronomical (and my fiancee is deadset on living on the west coast, so I'm pretty much stuck there), I can't very well afford to give away too much of my time for free. One or two hours a week would be fine; any more than that, and I could see it becoming a real problem.

As for the military draft, you know where I stand on that -- and we're in complete agreement here as well. I'm totally against it. Not just because I feel it's wrong to thrust people who don't want to serve in the military into active service, but I also think an all volunteer military performs better. It's full of men and women who want to be there (in the military that is, not necessarily a war) and therefore, will perform their jobs to very best of their skills.

40 hours per year=less than an hour per week per year. I am a CA native, still live here, in Silicon Valley where I pay astronomical rent, that I don't complain about because I won't live anywhere else, ever. I don't do snow or anything outside a moderate climate.

Anyway, my point is, there are limitless ways to contribute, no matter your cost of living, family situation, transportation situation, medical situation, etc. Working a food drive for a weekend twice a year would count. I'm just tired of people in this country feeling superior to others; not knowing what happens a block away, let alone a continent away; and overall continuance of insulation against most things non-American.

[BJZags 17]

Shouldn't the United States be better than "love it or leave it?" Honestly, I don't care what other countries do. I've always held the U.S. up to higher standards than the rest of the world, and I still do. Unfortunately, it's been letting me down a lot recently.

What "higher stadards" are you talking about? That a PR should take the benefits of all the freedoms given in this country, but not be held to the same commitment (assuming draft/public service requirement, etc.) that a USC who does NOT have the freedom to shirk has? That's not a higher standard, that is eating your cake with the frosting and not getting charged for it. Much was the same in my father's generation, if you don't like the draft, you can head north to Canada, ay.

The concept of freedom and civil liberties have been tossed about in this thread, as if there is no price to be paid for them. Whether it is men and women laying their lives on the line on the battlefield, elected politicians vibrantly debating in the halls of congress, or citizens taking part in the formulating of our laws through the political process, there is a price paid and important tasks accomplished before these freedoms are available to us. And if a PR doesn't have the right to participate in this process until naturalized, then this time in "limbo" is his "price to pay."

[peezey 0]

The concept of freedom and civil liberties have been tossed about in this thread, as if there is no price to be paid for them. Whether it is men and women laying their lives on the line on the battlefield, elected politicians vibrantly debating in the halls of congress, or citizens taking part in the formulating of our laws through the political process, there is a price paid and important tasks accomplished before these freedoms are available to us. And if a PR doesn't have the right to participate in this process until naturalized, then this time in "limbo" is his "price to pay."

Please explain how congress debating issues, and citizens participating in the process is in ANY WAY a price to pay for liberty? These two things do not = military service or limbo time for an LPR. Participating in the cvic process is a privilege, not a price. Now, if you're talking about people actually being beaten and/or dying while vigorously debating, for instance, civil rights marchers in Selma, then OK, that's a price paid.

[Heracles 417]

Shouldn't the United States be better than "love it or leave it?" Honestly, I don't care what other countries do. I've always held the U.S. up to higher standards than the rest of the world, and I still do. Unfortunately, it's been letting me down a lot recently.

To the contrary. How would you feel if someone always stepped on your toes and walked all over you.. I think this is happening to the US, as a whole. Take the illegal immigrants protesting for example, now that is a joke.

In Australia, they would have probably been rounded up and sent to detention camps.. I tell you what, AUS must be doing more than something right considering the country is raked 3rd in the world, by the UN, for Human Development...

[one...two...tree 2,762]

Shouldn't the United States be better than "love it or leave it?" Honestly, I don't care what other countries do. I've always held the U.S. up to higher standards than the rest of the world, and I still do. Unfortunately, it's been letting me down a lot recently.

To the contrary. How would you feel if someone always stepped on your toes and walked all over you.. I think this is happening to the US, as a whole. Take the illegal immigrants protesting for example, now that is a joke.

In Australia, they would have probably been rounded up and sent to detention camps.. I tell you what, AUS must be doing more than something right considering the country is raked 3rd in the world, by the UN, for Human Development...

Someone needs to deport you back to Australia.

Edited November 21, 2006 by Steven_and_Jinky

[aussiewench 9]

Shouldn't the United States be better than "love it or leave it?" Honestly, I don't care what other countries do. I've always held the U.S. up to higher standards than the rest of the world, and I still do. Unfortunately, it's been letting me down a lot recently.

To the contrary. How would you feel if someone always stepped on your toes and walked all over you.. I think this is happening to the US, as a whole. Take the illegal immigrants protesting for example, now that is a joke.

In Australia, they would have probably been rounded up and sent to detention camps.. I tell you what, AUS must be doing more than something right considering the country is raked 3rd in the world, by the UN, for Human Development...

Someone needs to deport you back to Australia.

NOOOOOOOOOOOO you can keep him